Why the hate on lower cost amps. Particularly Crate and Behringer?

[chadds]

Tone & quality.

I was at a jam and three of the folks had owned B mixers. They had been noisy since new & died instantaneously. A person should buy what they can afford. They should buy what their ears say sounds good. Sometimes the new piece teaches you what to like and dislike. It doesn't matter if it can be fixed after warranty when it goes down on a gig.

I always counsel, buy used pro gear. If you don't like the sound you can sell it for what you paid for it or minus a little depreciation which you can consider rent. You sell it a year later for $100. less than you paid for it. Wasn't it worth renting for $8.333 per month? That's coffee money.

There is a lot of lightly used pro gear floating around lived in basements, never or barely gigged. Why spend hard earned dough on new budget gear that you can't sell?

 

[Big Hoss]

I suspect the "can't be fixed" stigma to start waning soon. If an almost 60 year old can start repairing SMT boards I suspect the 20 and 30 year olds will not be far behind. The equipment to do so has become much more affordable.

Living in Houston Metro, I am in Lake Charles La. And San Antonio Tx with some frequency. There are 4 different Behringer Authorized service centers between those 2 cities. I don't think finding a place to get a broken amp if / when it breaks fixed will be a problem...

I guess for me, the appeal to the Behringer, it looks really good on paper, in some ways better than most others.

300 watt amp power.
15" speaker.
2 line outs, 1 XLR, and 1 1/4" for cabling to a mixer / PA system.
7 band EQ. I love the one on my Crate.
Compressor.
Good physical size. About the same as the current Crate. Not too big to make studio space or portability a problem.
No heavier than my Crate. Will still need a hand truck to move it if I don't want to feel any older than I already do...

I do wish, extensively that I could test out a bunch of different models though. I know combo amps are a compromise, but it is one I am willing to make for precious space reasons...

 

[Bassbubble11]

The only experience i have with Crate is a guitar combo i had back in the 90s (1x12 100 watt SS). It sounded like crap but was pretty loud. It crapped out after a couple rehearsalss. it was going to cost almost as much as i paid for it to fix it. Cheap crap IMO
.
Behringer is garbage if you ask me. I bought an ultrabass combo and it fried on the first note i played thru it.

 

[MDBass]

I've been reading with somewhat keen interest posts about various amps. I personally own a Crate BX-100 100 watt 1x15. While it isn't perfect (It is super heavy for what it is) I see a LOT of hate for Crate and Behringer amps in particular.

In my experience, while limited, I have been observing others as well. My Crate has been through HEAVY (minimum 2 hours / day) use from 2002 - 2007. I stopped / seriously slowed down my playing until recently when certain life events kicked me in the butt to get moving again...

A colleague of mine, and the guy that inspired me to get the Crate in the first place has the BX-100, he bought his new in 2001, and has been rocking it semi pro non stop since. He also has the 450 watt Behringer head with an unknown model Crate cabinet. All of this was picked up if I recall in 2005 or 2006 with again, semi pro use.

LOTS of local bands here can be seen with Crate and Behringer guitar / bass amps, mostly fed out to mixers, and unknown power amps (most of the time) but at least one venue I know of is using Behringer for their entire PA system. No problems...

I was active on another, seemingly now defunct bass forum early on where at least Crate wasn't a dirty word. Actually LOTS of players were running them...

So it would seem from what I see here, that TB members seem to have a bad collective taste in their mouths for both of these brands, and I am sure others...

Is it because there really is that much higher of a failure rate than other brands of equipment? Or is there something else about it?

I am sure I am not the only one to see Ampegs let out the magic smoke on stage. GKs aren't immune either. Countless Fender Rumbles have blown speakers, and power circuits... So why the specifically directed hate toward Crate and Behringer?

I have seen this with other fields of interest too. There seems to be a herd mentality where the costlier item of a given type, let's say Hammers, are somehow magically better because of a brand name put on them. What I am wondering, is there actually any real empirical evidence either proving, or disproving the quality of a given piece of equipment, or is it all about subjective opinion?

The reason I ask is although my Crate has been effective for me for a lot of years, I am giving serious consideration to the Behringer BXL3000A. Yes the added power is an incentive, I won't lie about that, but the added features, particularly output / line level options is a huge draw for me. I can, and do run XLR out of my Crate to my mixer no problem, aside from a cosmetic one. I would rather the jack be in the back so I can route the cable hidden... I know it's a minor thing, but since my studio is also my home office, and my wife tends to spend time in there, I want it to be as uncluttered looking as possible.

Only speaking from personal experience here, but the power amps Behringer uses (or at least used to use) are the worst in the industry bar none; I had both a new powered mixer and a new bass amp literally catch fire on me for no reason at all years ago.

Some of their non-powered mixers are killer, but I won't go near any of their powered gear.

Additionally the tone of Crate and Behringer is pretty uninspiring for a lot of folks, there's a reason you don't see any touring pro's playing either of those brands, and with the current used market being what it is buying something new as cheap as Crate and Behringer gear when you can get something like GK used for the same cost doesn't really make any sense for a hobbyist either.

 

[B-string]

Some stories bother me personally. I drove over 150 miles to go into a GC many years ago. They just setup a brand new PF500 Ampeg and PF115. Looked for a bass that was close to mine off the racks and plugged into the PF. Turned the amp on and as I adjusted the volume on the bass a hum started. Looked up to see smoke and then sparks fly. This experience should not cause anyone to call all Ampeg equipment junk that just blows up. Just put things in perspective.

 

[brianrost]

No hate here, just no real love.

I own two Crates..one bought used as a practice amp, the other bought used as a beater for my daughter to take to music camp and later duty as a rehearsal room beater.

They have worked fine for many years, never had any issues with either one. Sound is OK, just nothing special. I paid $50 and $60 respectively, nothing to complain about.

 

[Big Hoss]

Some stories bother me personally. I drove over 150 miles to go into a GC many years ago. They just setup a brand new PF500 Ampeg and PF115. Looked for a bass that was close to mine off the racks and plugged into the PF. Turned the amp on and as I adjusted the volume on the bass a hum started. Looked up to see smoke and then sparks fly. This experience should not cause anyone to call all Ampeg equipment junk that just blows up. Just put things in perspective.

I have seen relatively new Ampeg SVT heads let the smoke out at a show before. I don't blame Ampeg for all cap builds.

 

[dukeorock]

I can't get behind B* from an ethical point of view. Fortunately, I don't like most of their products anyway. The Crate stuff just doesn't sound good to me. There's good gear at the budget level, but I wouldn't go near those two brands, personally.

To this day you can still find the GK rb series stuff dirt cheap and it's well built, reliable and to many offers the dream tone. Doesn't have to be spendy to be good, even though all my gear is kinda spendy :/

 

[hopsbb]

I know alot of ppl/places that use berhinger stuff.I always hear ppl on forums and alot of ppl out and about bashing their products.I've played through a few and they sounded fine.Not the best but good enough.I actually own and regularly gig with a Bugera bass amp head and its been great so far.Bugera from what I hear is just Beringers tube products.Had it for about a yr now.Bought it used and guy had it for 3yrs before me.So far its been dependable.

I think its just brand name stigma mostly.

 

[MegaSwing]

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. I don't care what you play. That is my stand.

 

[MHensleyJr]

Why the hate? Because they suck.

 

[DwaynieAD]

I have the 100 watt crate although I'm pretty sure its a 12 not a 15. It weighs more than a 410 cab. And it sounds like crap. Absolute crap. In the good column I threw it down the stairs and it still works. And ita half blown now and has a good over driven tone

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

I had a behringer bass combo and it wasn't that great. It said 300 watts, but it was really only about 150-175.

HOWEVER

I had a Bugera 1960 head for awhile and it was actually quite nice sounding, and cheap (300$ used). So take from that what you will.

 

[Alex_SG]

I don't understand the hate either. It's like the Gibson vs. Fender thing.
Tone is a very subjective subject. So why is it that some people hate the tone from Behringer and Crate.
If they only dislike these tones because of the brand name on the gear, then they have a serious cork-sniffing problem.
I've heard extremely good guitar players sound awesome using Epiphone guitars, like Gary Clark Jr.
I've also heard bad guitarists sound terrible using top shelf USA Fender strats and Vintage Les Pauls played through a '65 re-issue Twin Reverb!
At the end of the day, if you're a crap player using good gear, you are still going to sound crap!

 

[B-string]

Cork-sniffing, delusion or true desire it is all subjective. Those that say (or proclaim by omission) theirs is the only way is what bothers me. It does not hold true for everyone or maybe even most, so state your likes and others will respect yours in kind (I'm an ex cork sniffing tuber).

 

[Mr. Foxen]

I used a super cheap Behringer head at a practice space when my valve head had made an upsetting noise. It was absolutely fine. A lot of the blowing up is because its people inexperienced using them, not knowing that turning up when its farting will make things worse, or eqing by eq so all the low sliders are up and the high ones down. Same stuff that would break anything, but they aren't allowed a go on the nice things.

I picked up a Bugera to see what the magic stuff that apparently can't be fixed inside them is. Turns out its entirely normal through hole pcb.

https://ampstack.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/bugera-behringer-1960-infinum-amp-guts/

 

[obimark]

I rocked a Crate 410 with their 200 watt bass head back in the early 90s. Solid stuff- not bad sounding either. Not super heavy for the time either. I'd consider a Crate bass amp if they were still in existence.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Growing up, learning to play, I used my father's Sunn Beta combo. Then when I started playing out after I turned 18, I got a Crate BFX-100. I still have it sitting in my grandmother's garage, I think. It was pretty bomb proof, but was it ever a turd as far as good, usable tone goes - incredibly boxy sounding no matter the setting and just devoid of any punch or life. Also, even though the Sunn and Crate were both 100 watt combos, the former ate the latter for lunch in terms of headroom and giggable volume (not to mention tone...the Beta is seriously an unsung gem from Sunn's later years). I wouldn't put anybody down for playing a Crate, because sometimes we have to play what we can get our hands on. However, I'd suggest anybody using one look to upgrade the moment they can. With that said, Crate did make a bass amp years ago that Ampeg had a hand in helping design, and that thing is a pretty good sounding unit.

As far as Behringer, I don't really have enough experience to comment on their bass heads. Bugera makes an alright Marshall guitar amp clone, but Blackstar makes a much better head that is probably a just a few dollars more. I'm not a big fan of Behringer cabs. However, they do make some solid sound boards and outboard rack gear. In fact, if I were looking to make a big sound board purchase, the X32 would be high on my consideration list. That thing's a serious piece of hardware.

 

[tjh]

.. there is a thread currently running on here, where the OP is asking opinions on a rig, where his choice of head is a NEW Behringer amp ... the responses he is getting certainly could be perceived as 'gear snobbery', or even brand 'hate' as stated in this thread ...

I have posted 'an opinion' in that thread, with absolutely not even a hint of 'snobbery' or brand 'hate' ... although it could be perceived as both, my comment is purely economical, and based on both 'wise' and 'less than stellar' purchases over the last 40+ years in this racket ... I will never blast a brand that someone else selects based upon their preferences, but when someone asks for opinions, I sure hate to see them have to go through the same 'mistakes' the I (and others I am aware of) have learned from without at least making them aware of the lesson learned ...

I see absolutely no reason to make a choice to buy a brand new Behringer head in the $150-200 range, when there are a myriad of better quality heads that are available used in that same price range, that have proven themselves over time, are spoken of with high regard in the gear world, and maybe most importantly, will hold the same value as the purchase price .. especially for a young person that almost for sure will be turning the gear over at some point in the not so distant future ... where, if they buy the Behringer new, it will be worth 50-60% of the purchase price the day they drive it off the lot ... now, if they buy that Behringer used at 50% of original, I have less of an issue, but Behringer without warranty might not be the best idea ...

... simply said, some of what my be perceived as brand 'hate' may actually be others simply feeling there are much better bangs available for the same buck ... especially for someone who is not buying because they tried and like the brand, but simply buying because it is the lowest price (new) they can swing ...

JMHO's ...

Edit to ad: ... my only experience with Crate, was using as supplied as backlines ... I have no idea of the models I was given, and accurately or not, I would never consider spending my $$ on a Crate knowing there are equally inexpensive brands that I prefer based on past experiences ... I dont think that is 'hate' or bashing even, just preferences ...

 

[davy4575]

Some stories bother me personally. I drove over 150 miles to go into a GC many years ago. They just setup a brand new PF500 Ampeg and PF115. Looked for a bass that was close to mine off the racks and plugged into the PF. Turned the amp on and as I adjusted the volume on the bass a hum started. Looked up to see smoke and then sparks fly. This experience should not cause anyone to call all Ampeg equipment junk that just blows up. Just put things in perspective.

Idk, Im probably of the minority but I routinely think of ampeg as junk, not becuase it breaks down alot, I just hate the ampeg tone in most cases. But I have a couple little behringer mixing boards, meh, they work, but are certainly not as accurate sounding and versatile to use as the Mackies that they ripped off the design for. I have blown a couple crate amps up, had a good time doing it. I think its just a general level of qc under other brands, very inconsistent