Double Bass Women in jazz

[Chris Fitzgerald]

ok. "today there are plenty of women thriving in Jazz, both in Concerts and in the educational system."

but yes I"m sure this has derailed..

the same could be said for any style of music and any ethnicity as well.. so it's just fodder.. "pointless: article with no resolution or anything to take away..

It's a discussion topic on a discussion forum. Some people are discussing the topic and riffing on it. That's the point.

And Joanne Bracken has a wicked and slightly twisted sense of humor - I don't remember too much about that night, but I remember that. Not surprised she would use a sight gag at a concert.

 

[bassfacer22]

yes I do agree, I'm sure glad people have riffed and completely discussed other things more important than the topic

the topic, which happens to be : Why women aren't getting into jazz.. - that is the article in the OP that he wanted to discuss right?..

but thank god all the other people got into other things like showing new and great female artists that are in music, so I have learned sooo much more just by other people posting stories and new artists I didn't know about.. than an article that tells me a style of music is more geared towards men..

but anyway, Chris, way more importantly, haha..

have you heard Joanne do TicoTico? - does a wacky version check it out!

haha

 

[bassfacer22]

crap.. sorry Chris - it was Stephany Tiernan on piano with her! not Suzanne Davis haha.. my memory is going already..

here was a snip of it! haha witches.. it was funny.. and out there..

 

[MLysh]

Two weeks ago, I caught Dena DeRose's trio in Philadelphia and they swung as hard as any piano trio I've ever heard...ANY. Martin Wind on bass and Matt Wilson on drums. If you don't know her work, check her out.

 

[buldog5151bass]

When I go to jazz festivals, there is often a long line for the men's bathroom, with no lines at all for the women's room. Many women love to make comments on how nice that reversal is. But it points to a simple fact: jazz is not as popular with female listeners as it is with male listeners. So why should we be surprised to see female musicians eschewing it as well?

The article really gets to the point right here, IMO: "I asked a jazz teacher once why he thought there was such an imbalance. He thought for a moment and said, 'Well, jazz is a bit of blokey art form'." Let's face it: it's kind of an egotistical art form (I love jazz, but still). I can imagine women being put off by what they may perceive as a bunch of macho posturing.

I had a GF years ago who identified as a feminist. She once told me that if I wanted my music to appeal to women, I had to aim for their hips. She stated that men like to listen to music, but women prefer to dance to it. I don't know if it's true or not; it seems like a bit too much of a generalization. I do know that when I went to see Medeski, Martin, and Wood a few years ago, every time they would get more abstract, the women in the audience would start talking to each other. Then the band would hit a groove, and the women would stop talking and start dancing.

My wife (a former concert violinist) says substantially the same thing.

 

[RBrownBass]

The article really gets to the point right here, IMO: "I asked a jazz teacher once why he thought there was such an imbalance. He thought for a moment and said, 'Well, jazz is a bit of blokey art form'." Let's face it: it's kind of an egotistical art form (I love jazz, but still). I can imagine women being put off by what they may perceive as a bunch of macho posturing.

Jazz should fit perfectly in that case! A demographic so (self-apparently) aware of ego in others that they're never able to see how that alleged awareness reveals an even deeper ego in themselves...

I had a GF years ago who identified as a feminist. She once told me that if I wanted my music to appeal to women, I had to aim for their hips. She stated that men like to listen to music, but women prefer to dance to it. I don't know if it's true or not; it seems like a bit too much of a generalization. I do know that when I went to see Medeski, Martin, and Wood a few years ago, every time they would get more abstract, the women in the audience would start talking to each other. Then the band would hit a groove, and the women would stop talking and start dancing.

It's kinda non-feminist for her to imply (thru the well-meant statement about having to aim for their hips) that her own demo is lacking in (or refuses to employ) the analytical skills sometimes used to enjoy jazz and must depend on their fee fees. It's an under-rating of their own intellect, sold to women as "openness to other forms of appreciation (...dancing)" with the sexist idea that they can't think like we do. I've had too many classes in various subjects and taught too many courses (in history) full of women who were bright, capable, mature, logical and rational to write them off as emotionally-driven semi-adults.

One feminist can't speak for all women. If your friend is seemingly correctly then women would not listen to classical and opera. We all know that's patently false.

This.

Most players and the way jazz is taught makes it to abstract and doesn't focus on emotion first. Perhaps women simply got bored with it after a certain age?

Why wouldn't they gravitate to it after a certain age? The arc of maturity/learning tends to rise upward for longer than it drops. Unless you go senile at, like 40 and live to be twice that age...

 

[sean_on_bass]

This discussion could easily apply to most genres. Even in rock and pop genres, there are way more men than women. And when women are there, they seem to always be singing and not playing a instrument. Plenty of exceptions to the rule, but you have to look for them.

Classical seems to be one genre that is more welcoming of women. But then you you look at the ensemble and notice that there are more women in certain sections than others. More women playing violin than the double bass. More women playing the clarinet than the trombone.

Then the question really becomes "why." Why are women gravitating toward certain styles, and within those styles, certain instruments?

I can make some logical conclusions about instrument choice. Physicality likely plays a role. Men play bigger instruments because men are physically bigger. Women play smaller instruments because women are physically smaller, generally.

Now why women choose to play certain styles becomes a lot more difficult to answer. What are the "barriers" so to speak keeping women away? I have a feeling there is a whole lot at play here, to include historical precedents, emotional response, societal pressure, and more. I for one would love more participation in music from all types of people. It can only create a more rich artistic community to be a part of.

 

[RBrownBass]

This discussion could easily apply to most genres. Even in rock and pop genres, there are way more men than women. And when women are there, they seem to always be singing and not playing a instrument. Plenty of exceptions to the rule, but you have to look for them.

That's why I respect female musicians so much. They took the road less traveled and succeeded without many role models. If it ain't rock, I don't need to see a vocalist with no other role but singing. I really don't neeeed to see it in rock, but it's become so prevalent that I can't really get away from it. I seriously enjoyed hearing Linda Oh play with Metheny Sunday night.

Classical seems to be one genre that is more welcoming of women. But then you you look at the ensemble and notice that there are more women in certain sections than others. More women playing violin than the double bass. More women playing the clarinet than the trombone.

Then the question really becomes "why." Why are women gravitating toward certain styles, and within those styles, certain instruments?

I can make some logical conclusions about instrument choice. Physicality likely plays a role. Men play bigger instruments because men are physically bigger. Women play smaller instruments because women are physically smaller, generally.

Now why women choose to play certain styles becomes a lot more difficult to answer. What are the "barriers" so to speak keeping women away? I have a feeling there is a whole lot at play here, to include historical precedents, emotional response, societal pressure, and more. I for one would love more participation in music from all types of people. It can only create a more rich artistic community to be a part of.

There's actually been a lot of improvement over the centuries. There was a time when choirs and theatre companies were all male. They used to get boys to play the role of women on stage and stuff like that

It could be that certain instruments were considered "feminine" at some point. I wanted to start drums in fifth grade, but we lived in an apartment, so I ended up with the quietest instrument available- a flute. I never cared for it, never worked at it, and dropped it for drums as soon as we moved the following year. I don't remember anyone openly caring about who played what in HS, but there were way more girls on clarinet and flute than boys, and a lot more boys in percussion and lower brass than girls. Plus, the girls didn't play drums, for the most part- they stuck to marimba and xylophone, because they'd all had piano lessons early on (some of the guys had, too). But nobody stopped them from playing drums. We did poke a bit of fun at males who were in choir and did not play an instrument, but even that wasn't serious in terms of sexism. Nobody would have had a comeback if one of them had sat down at the piano and showed some instrumental musicianship.

 

[CryingBass]

Suported and seen many above. To add

Patrice Rushen
Flora Purim
Gayle Moran

Many mispellings above, but a lot of love

 

[oren]

Here in Chicago we are lucky to have bassist Marlene Rosenberg who can hold her own with any player I know of. I like her so much I Study with her when I can.