• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

wooly mammoth w/ actives

#41
Good info Tristan, you learn something everyday around here!

I was more coming from an EE's point of view who's designing an electronic effect that has to work with 99.9% of all guitars. In this case they truly would not care how many windings the pickup has or what other factors influence the tone - all they're interested in is dealing with the two general cases of source impedances which are passive = high and active = low.

Just to reiterate, there's more to it than just that because the active electronics not only changes the impedances, but reduces the interaction between pickup and effect.
 
#42
I just read on the ZVex forums that Radial has a box called a dragster that is an impedence matcher/buffer. It is just a little passive box that you put in front of you effects or whatever. Musiciansfriend has is in stock for $49.99. This seems like the least expensive solution so far.
 
#43
niftydog said:
Even so, an impedance matching device such as the Dragster still does not allow interaction between the Mammoth and the pickups, so the forced-high-impedance trick might only partially work. The active electronics is still in the picture, and it's still doing it's job which is to isolate the passive pickups from external influences.
Click to expand...
;)
 
#44
Let me chime in a little bit, as I own(ed) 7 Zvex pedals.

The Wooly sounds passable with active pickups, but it looses much of it's character and dynamics. It feels squished and thin, and this due to the impedannce mismatch, not the increased output of the bass.

Many pedals in addition to ZVex are intended to see a hi-impedance signal; since I use so many of them I opted to gut my bass and go passive. Not only does my bass sound better, but it works much better with all my gear.
 
#46
niftydog said:
Even so, an impedance matching device such as the Dragster still does not allow interaction between the Mammoth and the pickups, so the forced-high-impedance trick might only partially work. The active electronics is still in the picture, and it's still doing it's job which is to isolate the passive pickups from external influences. Other tricks such as using low volume settings or a half-cocked volume pedal have been reported to have worked, but it's still no substitute for passive pups.
Click to expand...

Well, someone had to ask this, so I guess it might as well be me. Is it possible to fake the interaction with pickups somehow, or d you have any idea what the nature of the interaction and any changes it might impart to the signal might be? Is it something that is measurable, and then as a result reproducible? I would guess that if it were really as simple as adding some components to a fuzz, there'd be schematics pretty easily available as to what one needs, but on the off chance that there's not enough bassist DIYers in the world, I thought I'd ask.

(If that sounded anything other than inquisitive, I appologize. Not trying to turn this into a power cables debate as to whether or not we can measure it... I just REALLY want to put an octave in front of the mammoth with less ill effects than before)
 
#47
This thread has been seriously informative so far. But I have a question. From what the above posts have stated about 'low-Z' pickups (bass with preamps), they obviously make the Woolly Mammoth sound like a gangly asparagus...So would a solution be to install an active/passive selector onboard an active bass which dosen't already have one?

Or would it not help since the pickups alone are already putting out a Low-Z signal?:help:
 
#48
jucas said:
(If that sounded anything other than inquisitive, I appologize. Not trying to turn this into a power cables debate as to whether or not we can measure it... I just REALLY want to put an octave in front of the mammoth with less ill effects than before)
Click to expand...

I ever tried: Passive P bass --> Zvex W.Mammoth --> OC-2.

I only set the direct signal of the OC-2 to unity gain and added a touch of 1-down octaved signal. Powerful, tight and aggressive synth!
 
#49
jucas said:
Is it possible to fake the interaction with pickups somehow, or d you have any idea what the nature of the interaction and any changes it might impart to the signal might be? Is it something that is measurable, and then as a result reproducible?
Click to expand...

It becomes a question of mechanics, in a sense- the actual physical coils of wire in the pickups are what interact with the Mammoth circuit. There's no way I can think of to re-create the physical electrical effect of "magnetized coils of wire with metal strings vibrating nearby", it's so dynamic, organic, and purely physical.

Maybe a sympathetic extra set of pickups, like a Sustainiac, could be incorporated into the chain?
 
#50
3NotesAbar said:
I ever tried: Passive P bass --> Zvex W.Mammoth --> OC-2.

I only set the direct signal of the OC-2 to unity gain and added a touch of 1-down octaved signal. Powerful, tight and aggressive synth!
Click to expand...

I'm impressed that it tracked after that. I ran my pog after it, and although it sounded good, if one accounted for the weird mammoth sounds when the pog was before, it had so much potential.
 
#51
bongomania said:
It becomes a question of mechanics, in a sense- the actual physical coils of wire in the pickups are what interact with the Mammoth circuit. There's no way I can think of to re-create the physical electrical effect of "magnetized coils of wire with metal strings vibrating nearby", it's so dynamic, organic, and purely physical.

Maybe a sympathetic extra set of pickups, like a Sustainiac, could be incorporated into the chain?
Click to expand...

That's about what the answer I expected to get was. Oh well. Found a reference to a Jack Orman article about making a buffered signal useable with a fuzzface/etc at DIYstompboxes... might be of some use if the article still exists, although they had a decent list of issues, and it doesn';t seem to have really caught on around there.
 
#52
jucas said:
Is it possible to fake the interaction with pickups somehow, or d you have any idea what the nature of the interaction and any changes it might impart to the signal might be? Is it something that is measurable, and then as a result reproducible?
Click to expand...
"Fake" is the right word, that's about all you can do. Measuring and recreating the exact response would be nigh on impossible.

I've seen some reference to using transformers and/or inductors to try to simulate the sort of behaviour, but I've only ever seen it as theoretical articles, no real-world examples.

3NotesAbar said:
So would a solution be to install an active/passive selector onboard an active bass which dosen't already have one?

Or would it not help since the pickups alone are already putting out a Low-Z signal?:help:
Click to expand...
That is certainly one approach that's been discussed over at zvex.com. However, it has also been mentioned in this thread that the pickups in an active bass are significantly different to conventional passive pickups, so the results may be quite different to what you expect.

A low output impedance is really, really low, like in the order of a few ohms. While active pickups in passive mode might be lower than conventional passives, there's no way they are anywhere near as low impedance as a buffer amplifier.

jucas said:
TFound a reference to a Jack Orman article about making a buffered signal useable with a fuzzface/etc at DIYstompboxes... might be of some use if the article still exists, although they had a decent list of issues, and it doesn';t seem to have really caught on around there.
Click to expand...
Pickup simulation article. Seems sound, in theory... We'll know it's pure bunk when Radial starts manufacturing them!!! ;)
 
#53
^Thats the article I read... I think for a $2 transformer its worth adding to the list of things to try this summer. I figured this was like the tubes/solid state thing, and although one isn't going to get a perfect recreation we might get to some useable or entertainging stuff out of it.

Thanks for all the info though.
 
#58
bongomania said:
Fixed it for ya. :)
Click to expand...


niftydog said:
The reamps +4dBu line level input is expecting a signal significantly hotter than even a hot active bass output. I wonder how one would go about getting this set for unity gain!? I guess the level control helps, but it still seems clunky in this application.
Click to expand...



thats what i thought too, but really you can drive the woolly pretty damn hard and itll work, as long as the impedance is high, i used it with my moogs a lot and even on their +20db output, and it worked fine with the reamp.
 
#59
Thats the article I read... I think for a $2 transformer its worth adding to the list of things to try this summer.
Click to expand...
i already built this thingy in the fall of 2005, two times. one with a volume control (actually to go in front of a woolly mammoth), and one without the volume control but with the SC/HB switch. they both had no added tone control.

the one with the volume control works pretty well for fuzzes, the one without doesn´t...the signal is usually still too hot. i might include a volume control in that one, to make it more useable.

so this is the second best solution for the problem, because the best solution is...
...to have an active/passive toggle switch on your bass. things like the woolly mammoth and other fuzzes just sound best with passive gear, why go for second best solutions...it´s really easy to install that option on your bass, many already have it factory-installed. i modded my MIADlx jazzV for passive operation just because of the mammoth and its brethren...sold it recently, though (but for other reasons).

btw, the "bias" control on the fuller `69 fuzz works pretty well for that purpose, too...if you turn it down completely, it sounds pretty good with active basses.

cheers,
lowstar
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back