Workshop Tools - the essentials???

[BassHappy]

Hey folks of the TB

First of all, I seem to post things in the wrong place from time to time, so I hope this is the right place. I searched on this topic, and was hoping there might be a sticky or something - but I was unable to come up with anything. Perhaps I searched on the wrong things - so - if this is covered somewhere else, please point me there and I will sheepishly ask the mods to delete this. I also searched on google and it wasn't easy to come up with bass builders, and a lot of the wood shops were acoustic guitar oriented, which seemed like a different kind of tool-up.

I have been working in a local wood shop on 5 prototypes of a new bass design. It looks like, I too am becoming addicted to this building thing. I have an opportunity to rent a really nice size barn and if the negotiations go well - there would be room for a small shop. When I was in Germany last October I was fortunate enough to spend a few days with Jens Ritter and I was amazed at how small yet practical his shop was. He does an awful lot of stuff with hand tools.

I realize that folks work differently. On one hand you have the ones who basically like to do as much as possible by hand - carving, sculpting, chiseling and rasping their way through. On the other extreme we have Bruce Johnson and the like - who have literally dozens of machines, dating back nearly 100 years or so and many duplicate machines - that have different features that Bruce modified or even invented to suit specific purposes. Of course, I am sure that Bruce still does a great amount of work with hand tools as well.

I am thinking I am somewhere in the middle. I wanted to start planning - and I don't want to pick up any tools or machinery that might not be suited for what I need. I guess one of the other big issues is with vacuum systems and keeping the overall environment and air quality as healthy as possible. I did see the Wynn video on the state-of-the-art shop he put together - and it was inspiring and humbling at the same time. Not thinking about something like that - that is for sure! I also realized that if you buy used there can be a big maintenance factor, but I think the shop where I have been working would be happy to lend a hand to keep me up and running. I could always rent their shop for the use of some machinery and slowly buy a machine here and there as my budget allows - and as the used equipment deals come up.

While their place is a great furniture-type wood shop, I have already discovered that there are at least a few things they didn't have specifically for bass building - and they have a lot of things that seem overkill too. For example, we needed to clean up the insides of 3 hollowed out clamshells, top and back - after routing and grinding. They didn't have a small sander and it was taking forever to get these cleaned up. So I pickup up a small 2" orbital sander for $20 on Amazon which turned out to be perfect for the job and saved a lot of time.

So, I am trying figure out if there is a bit of a consensus on tools and machinery that most could agree would be "essential" to a newbie like me. I have a neighbor who is a mechanical engineer, and he has a nice metal shop and CNC machine. He told me that he has a disassembled machine in his attic that is multi-purpose - that he would donate to my shop. He mentioned that it is (at least) both a drill press and a table saw but does some other things too. I have never heard of this and have no idea if it is suitable for what I need.

Some things seem obvious to me, and it may pay for me to do my basic millwork at the other shop. I could use their table saw, band saw, thickness planer, jointer and scroll saw - but I would like to be able to work in my own place and at my own pace - without having to run to their shop all the time.

So the question for the builders is - knowing the above - what equipment do you feel is essential to a basic bass building workshop?

Please comment or discuss if you see fit...And THANKS, in advance.

 

[afa3]

He mentioned that it is (at least) both a drill press and a table saw but does some other things too.

That sounds like a Shopsmith, or something similar.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If it's complete and in good shape, it might be useful while you find individual machines that fit your space and budget.

 

[BassHappy]

That sounds like a Shopsmith, or something similar.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If it's complete and in good shape, it might be useful while you find individual machines that fit your space and budget.

Wow, that looks pretty cool....

I had no idea anything like that existed. I will email him and ask if he remembers which make and model it is.

 

[mapleglo]

At over $3 grand, it better shine my shoes as well

You can get a drill press, router, router table, table saw, jig saw, and spindle sander for under a grand, which would cover your basic needs I would think.

 

[scotch]

If you're building from scratch rough lumber I think you need a couple extra tools (planer, band saw)... but I've been to a few shops that did a LOT with a drill press, router with a table, and spindle sander! Lots of hand tools, though. Then there's fretting tools and finishing stuff.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

I have a shopsmith (1953 greenie Mark V - my grandfather bought it new) - it's good at a few things, adequate at others. Used on CL for a reasonable price, can be good. $3K - laugh and walk away.

I work both ends of the spectrum - I have an (Old, Cheap, cranky) CNC router. I also use hand tools - I got into both about the same time. I was brought up on "pushing sticks through machines" wooddorking (so long ago that the high school still had a woodshop.) The biggest thing about hand tools, as opposed to PSTMW is that it is vastly more compact. It's also quieter and harder to cut parts off of yourself. For one-offs, it can be as fast or faster, since there is a lot less setup time.

You can do a huge amount with a router and a bunch of sleds, jigs etc - the sled is perhaps the most game-changing of router helpers, since it lets you use a router as a planer, radius planer, etc...

The CNC router is essentially a smart jig, but a bit crazy for a hobby shop (guilty.)

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes, these days I am a hopeless machine junkie, but 27 years ago my Luthier roots started in a 1-car garage with minimal tools. I've been there.

The first power tools that you really need:

Drill press; preferably a 15" swing size. No need to be real fussy. Most of the inexpensive imports work fine. Fit it with a keyless chuck.

Bandsaw; get a decent quality 14" saw, with a 3/4 hp motor. That will be your workhorse, one machine that you really need.

Router; get a good one at least 1 1/2 hp, that can take both 1/2" and 1/4" shank bits.
​

Those are the three essentials. You can build all kinds of instruments and fixtures with just those three, and some good hand tools.

 

[BassHappy]

Yes, these days I am a hopeless machine junkie, but 27 years ago my Luthier roots started in a 1-car garage with minimal tools. I've been there.

The first power tools that you really need:

Drill press; preferably a 15" swing size. No need to be real fussy. Most of the inexpensive imports work fine. Fit it with a keyless chuck.

Bandsaw; get a decent quality 14" saw, with a 3/4 hp motor. That will be your workhorse, one machine that you really need.

Router; get a good one at least 1 1/2 hp, that can take both 1/2" and 1/4" shank bits.
​

Those are the three essentials. You can build all kinds of instruments and fixtures with just those three, and some good hand tools.

Thanks so much - this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I don't know yet what my neighbor is offering. From what he mentioned is in his attic - I am not sure exactly what he has - but it I got the impression that he would set it up in the my shop (it is only 3 miles from our homes) and let me use it to get me started. Anxious to see what this machine really is...

Waiting on his return email...

 

[earlysecond]

Bass Happy,
I am just about at the same point as you and am picking off 1980's Grizzly tools, one at a time from my boss/friend. I have some borrowed equipment so I will keep it short and tell you that the power tools I most use, in this order:

Router- very versatile and you can build jigs to do just about anything. I am borrowing a DeWalt and it is really nice. I also have a HF trim router, indefensible.
Drill Press- Otherwise I make messes of all holes I just bought one from HF and it is OK
Band Saw- 16" Grizzly, overkill but for the price a paid, never too big
Thickness planer- maybe because I am a rook, maybe because I like to shave wood ! I am borrowing a 12" DeWalt which works well. I am going to get the Big 20" Griz 220V 3 HP that my boss has next becasue I love to plane wood!!!
Spindle Sander- The Rigid combo oscillating spindle/ belt sander for $200 at HD- hard to beat
Jointer- This is also borrowed but I use it a good bit, some of the lumber I buy is a bit rough

Today months after the fact and after people had recommended it many times I ordered a Shinto Saw Rasp and a spokeshave.

I am all in on building and can't get enough! obsessed is an extreme understatement. I hope your agreement for space goes well! I am already out of room in my basement! I thought that 14X15 space would be enough! haha

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Thanks so much - this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I don't know yet what my neighbor is offering. From what he mentioned is in his attic - I am not sure exactly what he has - but it I got the impression that he would set it up in the my shop (it is only 3 mile from our homes) and let me use it to get me started. Anxious to see what this machine really is...

Waiting on his return email...

If it's a Shopsmith Mark V, it's a pretty decent drill press and horizontal boring machine (same function, but being laid over 90 degrees can be useful.) It can be used to power a bandsaw accessory, but if it does not come with that, it's an overpriced accessory most of the time.

On routers I have positive experiences with Porter Cable and negative ones (to the point that I avoided them for years) with Black and Decker and Craftsman. Not to say all that couldn't be different in 2016, (and there are other "normally good" brands I have not tried, since the PC suits me and I'm not shopping for a replacement.)

If you wanna, you wanna, @earlysecond , but you really can do pretty much all the planing (and jointing) a bass will ever need with a router sled, and without needing to find a home for a big special-purpose tool (or two) that will teach you the meaning of "snipe" and "compressed surface." If you want to thickness a whole stack of lumber, it's not the way to go - but for small shop work it's darn near ideal.

 

[BassHappy]

Bass Happy,
I am just about at the same point as you and am picking off 1980's Grizzly tools, one at a time from my boss/friend. I have some borrowed equipment so I will keep it short and tell you that the power tools I most use, in this order:

Router- very versatile and you can build jigs to do just about anything. I am borrowing a DeWalt and it is really nice. I also have a HF trim router, indefensible.
Drill Press- Otherwise I make messes of all holes I just bought one from HF and it is OK
Band Saw- 16" Grizzly, overkill but for the price a paid, never too big
Thickness planer- maybe because I am a rook, maybe because I like to shave wood ! I am borrowing a 12" DeWalt which works well. I am going to get the Big 20" Griz 220V 3 HP that my boss has next becasue I love to plane wood!!!
Spindle Sander- The Rigid combo oscillating spindle/ belt sander for $200 at HD- hard to beat
Jointer- This is also borrowed but I use it a good bit, some of the lumber I buy is a bit rough

Today months after the fact and after people had recommended it many times I ordered a Shinto Saw Rasp and a spokeshave.

I am all in on building and can't get enough! obsessed is an extreme understatement. I hope your agreement for space goes well! I am already out of room in my basement! I thought that 14X15 space would be enough! haha

If it's a Shopsmith Mark V, it's a pretty decent drill press and horizontal boring machine (same function, but being laid over 90 degrees can be useful.) It can be used to power a bandsaw accessory, but if it does not come with that, it's an overpriced accessory most of the time.

On routers I have positive experiences with Porter Cable and negative ones (to the point that I avoided them for years) with Black and Decker and Craftsman. Not to say all that couldn't be different in 2016, (and there are other "normally good" brands I have not tried, since the PC suits me and I'm not shopping for a replacement.)

If you wanna, you wanna, @earlysecond , but you really can do pretty much all the planing (and jointing) a bass will ever need with a router sled, and without needing to find a home for a big special-purpose tool (or two) that will teach you the meaning of "snipe" and "compressed surface." If you want to thickness a whole stack of lumber, it's not the way to go - but for small shop work it's darn near ideal.

Hey Early and T Bone

Again thanks for all the useful into. We have been using both the drum and spindle sanders a lot and I think they would have to be part of the arsenal.

The barn I am hoping to score is 950 square feet on each floor and it is just me and my businesses. They are done renovating the inside completely and they are starting on a tyvek wrap along with new outside siding and a new roof this week:

So I can dedicate a good amount of space downstairs to this if I need to. I have been realizing how uber careful you have to be. I was shearing some decorative flower/mandala bolts that I am using to hold the bridges in place on the prototypes. Sorry for the terrible cell phone shot:

The five bodies are various thicknesses and the 1 1/4" bolts were too long for 4 of the bodies. I got the handy dandy wire strippers with the various bolt holes, where you can thread them in to shear them to size, and on the very first one - I was using both of my hands to shear the bolt and I cut my middle finger right on the fingertip in two places and pinched the area in between. The area I pinched is more or less a blood blister and I will probably lose the skin there. The cut on the fingertip is not so bad, but another 1/4" in and I would have likely lost the tip of that finger. This is on the freaky side for a newbie like me, and it's really the first thing I ever tried to do without guidance. Yes, a big fat warning sign and in a way I am kind of glad it happened. You can never be careful enough. Lesson learned. Minimal damage. Could have been a disaster. I don't think I am accident prone, but I guess I will find out. I finished up the project using a rubber mallet to pound on the stripper handles and shear the bolts - and I am very happy with how it turned out. I took the band aids off today and it feels pretty good. Problem is you happen to bang it on something without the band aid - it starts all over again.

In the meantime, I had a bass track for an album project that I should have wrapped up this weekend. Now, it's a week maybe two before I can play again, so I am really wondering if I should save this building thing until I my playing days are winding down. Of course, this doesn't address the fact that I am getting thoroughly addicted to this building thing, so learning to be more careful is the more practical solution.

I will take all of these suggestions under advisement and let you know how it goes. I am very appreciative for all the good information and the kind responses.

I DO love this place....

 

[buldog5151bass]

I never liked all in one tools:

- you can't move up as your budget increases
- if one part needs to go in the shop, you lose everything
- tends to be a compromise in everything

 

[earlysecond]

Tbone- Yeah I'm confident that a router will suffice. After spending a day building my router fretboard Jig, which is far from perfect. I will score a 4"inch belt sander and build an overhead Leo Fender fixture to radius my gretboards- haha

Can't be too careful Happy. I'm hoping I have learned my extra caution by now. If you can learn to work with them on, Mechanice's gloves will save a lot of scrapes, nicks and pinched stuff. Won't help much where seriously sharp blades are concerned though!

I was able to play in church for the first time with my middle finger today after the bandsaw wound started to heal. I was doing quite well, as a finger player, using my ring finger instead! But yeah, tools are dangerous if you are not ultra careful.

Good luck with the barn. It has a definite shop MoJo and I would love to have somewhere cool like that to hang out and build.

Let us know how the negotiations go!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

the 1 1/4" bolts were too long for 4 of the bodies. I got the handy dandy wire strippers with the various bolt holes, where you can thread them in to shear them to size

Crappy tool for the job, IMHO - and good lesson of the "cheap tools can be expensive" type (though for cutting parts of you off, expensive ones can, too.)

I would don safety glasses and step away from the wood-dust (sparks can light fires, long after you left), and use a cutoff disk in a dremel tool (one of these days I'll step up to a Foredom, but so far I haven't) to shorten bolts if need be. A boring old hacksaw could also work, without the sparks. Better yet, I'd grab a shorter bolt from the hardware stash (buy them by the box (where a box has 100 or so), and from McMaster-Carr if your local hardware store does not have a good box price, or died because Lowes/HD moved in and only sell them in 5-packs for outrageous prices. Keep them organized so you don't buy the same box 5 times because you can't find it.

A couple of tired old nuggets of workshop advice: Anything that cuts wood cuts flesh. Since you blend into metal, so does almost anything that cuts metal, and so does any freshly cut metal.

Do not disregard the little voice in your head, when it suggests that this (whatever this is) is probably a bad idea.
Fine Woodworking evidently did a workshop accident survey some decades back. I don't know that I've ever seen it in person, but I've heard it referred to enough that I think I understand a salient point from it. A consistent theme that showed up was that MANY accident victims thought something along the lines of "this is a bad idea/this is dangerous," and then disregarded that in the interests of getting the "whatever" done. It is always faster to find another (safer) way than to visit the emergency room. It's also cheaper.

...annnd - there may not be an inspector hanging over your head forcing you to, but you only get one pair of eyes and one pair of ears. Use safety glasses and earplugs (or muffs, or muffs and plugs) religiously, whenever they might be needed, even if you think the odds are really low. Dad's glass eye looks pretty good, but it doesn't see at all.

 

[earlysecond]

Thanks T-Bone. All great points to take to heart.

 

[Lonnybass]

Crappy tool for the job, IMHO - and good lesson of the "cheap tools can be expensive" type (though for cutting parts of you off, expensive ones can, too.)

I would don safety glasses and step away from the wood-dust (sparks can light fires, long after you left), and use a cutoff disk in a dremel tool (one of these days I'll step up to a Foredom, but so far I haven't) to shorten bolts if need be. A boring old hacksaw could also work, without the sparks. Better yet, I'd grab a shorter bolt from the hardware stash (buy them by the box (where a box has 100 or so), and from McMaster-Carr if your local hardware store does not have a good box price, or died because Lowes/HD moved in and only sell them in 5-packs for outrageous prices. Keep them organized so you don't buy the same box 5 times because you can't find it.

A couple of tired old nuggets of workshop advice: Anything that cuts wood cuts flesh. Since you blend into metal, so does almost anything that cuts metal, and so does any freshly cut metal.

Do not disregard the little voice in your head, when it suggests that this (whatever this is) is probably a bad idea.
Fine Woodworking evidently did a workshop accident survey some decades back. I don't know that I've ever seen it in person, but I've heard it referred to enough that I think I understand a salient point from it. A consistent theme that showed up was that MANY accident victims thought something along the lines of "this is a bad idea/this is dangerous," and then disregarded that in the interests of getting the "whatever" done. It is always faster to find another (safer) way than to visit the emergency room. It's also cheaper.

...annnd - there may not be an inspector hanging over your head forcing you to, but you only get one pair of eyes and one pair of ears. Use safety glasses and earplugs (or muffs, or muffs and plugs) religiously, whenever they might be needed, even if you think the odds are really low. Dad's glass eye looks pretty good, but it doesn't see at all.

This is an amazing post about safety. I would add, remove your wedding ring anytime you're in the shop. Anything that can get hooked or caught and trap your hand needs to stay on the bedroom nightstand.

Lonnybass

 

[DLemos]

Almost finished my first bass. All I have used is a Dremel, a drill, a manual hand saw, chisels, filers, and sand paper. Nothing fancy.

 

[Beej]

The FAQ in the Luthier's Corner also has a good section on tools with lots of links to other threads:
FAQs for all: New builders READ THIS!!!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

The FAQ in the Luthier's Corner also has a good section on tools with lots of links to other threads:
FAQs for all: New builders READ THIS!!!

I was going to suggest that, and then I noticed how much crufty "text from some prior version of talkbase that got turned into odd &# codes" there was in the that post, which made me question how intact the grand link structure might (or might not) be. But I haven't checked it out to see if that suspicion is baseless or not. In either case, it looks like the post itself could stand cleanup if only for those things - they make it annoying to read, if nothing else. And surely a few more things have come along in the past 10 years?

 

[BassHappy]

This is an amazing post about safety. I would add, remove your wedding ring anytime you're in the shop. Anything that can get hooked or caught and trap your hand needs to stay on the bedroom nightstand.

Lonnybass

Hey T Bone and Lonnybass

The bolts are special one of a kind decorative radio bolts - not available at the local Home Depot or Lowe's but only by special order. They only make one size period and this is it:

It looks like the head might come off, but they are machined together and it doesn't come off. These are the strippers I used:

8-32 happens to be a common electrician's bolt size, so the threaded hole is built in.

I did a lot of research on the bolt shortening, and the hack saw - then file the thread route - seemed hit or miss. A vast majority on the postings boards for bolt shortening I could find - overwhelmingly suggested the strippers over the hack saw. The filing had to be uber precise or the threads would be permanently damaged. Plus I would have had to buy the special metal file - not a big deal, but I questioned whether or not I would ever use it again.

The cool thing about the electrical wire strippers and the threaded holes was that the bolt shearing did not damage the threads. I used wing nuts and threaded them all the way to the top of the bolts first, and then after shearing I ran them on and off a couple of times and they cleaned up the very small burrs perfectly.

It worked like a charm and was the best way to go in my opinion. It was my misjudgment about how much force and pressure it took to squeeze the handles and actually shear the bolt that caused the accident. Once I switched to the rubber mallet it was a complete piece of cake.