Would this put you off as a buyer?

[Ukko]

Buying instruments does not have to be this difficult. ijs.

Now we have conjecture about whether the good case came with the good bass. Seriously?


The offer was not accepted. The seller didn't get flowery with his response ("I do declare, if the boys return home from the conflict intact I may be ever so inclined to do so but that does not appear likely so..."). No counter.

The Gang: We think he should've sold it to you the way that YOU wanted. Who does he think he is... the seller?

But wait, there's more!


Sorry, this stuff is funny.

Funny, but if I thought the OP and his sympathizers represented typical buyers, I'd never sell online again.

As a buyer, I find it easy to respect whatever the seller is offering. If I don't want to buy on his terms, I move on.

As a seller, I get to set the terms. Anyone who wants to change the terms is a problem buyer and I won't sell to him. Done.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Far too many people with what could be referred to as; overly ambitious desire with restrictive resources and unrealistic expectations find themselves unprepared to engage in transactional intercourse with those of means, experience and no reason to rearrange everything to make something go their way...!

The easy fix is to step up, make the best offer, and be ready to put your money where your mouth is...or say thanks and move on and don't become emotional over the Bass in the glass case that you will be worthy of someday...or not!

 

[/\/\3phist0]

So I was looking at a bass on Reverb and a large volume seller has a bass I like priced at $2700, the bass is within a fair price range for what it is although on the high end, one of the downsides for me is it has a non original damaged case. The sellers price is firm, no " make offer" feature

The same seller has another bass of the same make, model and vintage with a nice original case but the color and condition of the bass is less desirable so its priced at $1800

* I had mistakenly suggested he has hundreds of guitars listed, most of his inventory are pedals, he has 18 guitars listed in total*


I had emailed him and said I would be interested in purchasing your $2700 bass if you would swap out the case with the case from the other listing.

He replied with one sentence that he " wouldn't be willing to do that "

Me personally, to make a sale, I would be happy to, in my opinion the condition of the case really has no bearing on value of the instrument it's more the fact I already have several basses with worn broken cases.

The demeanor of the reply makes me want to take an antacid for my G.A.S and move along


Am I unreasonable?

Unreasonable / unrealistic -- yes
Would this put you off as a buyer?

Yes .
I'd move on and buy something else. Or buy it and suck it up.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

You made an offer to an item that has no "make an offer" option and he normally declined it. IMO "wouldn't be willing to do that" is a polite way to refuse your offer. I don't think the damaged case will be a problem during shipping as the case is going to be in a package anyway.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Funny, but if I thought the OP and his sympathizers represented typical buyers, I'd never sell online again.

As a buyer, I find it easy to respect whatever the seller is offering. If I don't want to buy on his terms, I move on.

As a seller, I get to set the terms. Anyone who wants to change the terms is a problem buyer and I won't sell to him. Done.

Funny, I would call someone like you a problem seller, unless you set prices beyond reasonably low. You don't really get to set the terms any more than the buyer. You have the choice not to sell and the buyer has the choice not to buy. Just like there may be other buyers, there are likely other sellers as well unless you have some one of a kind super desirable item. When selling and setting your price, you have to factor in desirability of the item, affordability of the item, as well as where your price fits in with the market in general.

Anyway, I maybe haven't "made a living" selling gear, (what a ridiculous standard for knowledge/competence, just turn on the news any given day and you'll always see at least one example of a person "making a living" at something they are completely unqualified for) but I have bought and sold a f ton of it over the years, and I've made money on almost all of it, so maybe I kinda know what I'm doing. Yes, there are people that are time wasters, but you still have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. That's just good business sense, "don't be a ...".

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Funny, I would call someone like you a problem seller, unless you set prices beyond reasonably low. You don't really get to set the terms any more than the buyer. You have the choice not to sell and the buyer has the choice not to buy. Just like there may be other buyers, there are likely other sellers as well unless you have some one of a kind super desirable item. When selling and setting your price, you have to factor in desirability of the item, affordability of the item, as well as where your price fits in with the market in general.

Anyway, I maybe haven't "made a living" selling gear, (what a ridiculous standard for knowledge/competence, just turn on the news any given day and you'll always see at least one example of a person "making a living" at something they are completely unqualified for) but I have bought and sold a f ton of it over the years, and I've made money on almost all of it, so maybe I kinda know what I'm doing. Yes, there are people that are time wasters, but you still have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. That's just good business sense, "don't be a ...".

You need to lighten up young man and go shopping for a sense of humor and stop being a bore! lol

 

[Ukko]

Funny, I would call someone like you a problem seller, unless you set prices beyond reasonably low. You don't really get to set the terms any more than the buyer. You have the choice not to sell and the buyer has the choice not to buy. Just like there may be other buyers, there are likely other sellers as well unless you have some one of a kind super desirable item. When selling and setting your price, you have to factor in desirability of the item, affordability of the item, as well as where your price fits in with the market in general.

Anyway, I maybe haven't "made a living" selling gear, (what a ridiculous standard for knowledge/competence, just turn on the news any given day and you'll always see at least one example of a person "making a living" at something they are completely unqualified for) but I have bought and sold a f ton of it over the years, and I've made money on almost all of it, so maybe I kinda know what I'm doing. Yes, there are people that are time wasters, but you still have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. That's just good business sense, "don't be a ...".

Thanks for proving my point.

I don't sell music gear or anything else for a living, and I do price to sell, but that's totally beside the point. I own whatever I'm selling, so yes, I definitely do get to set the terms. You, the buyer, don't. Your only choice is to buy on my terms, or not. If you start trying to get me to change my terms, the problem isn't that you're wasting my time, it's that you're a problem buyer who will most likely never be satisfied, so I won't sell to you.

If that puts you off, then I've dodged a problem.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Yeah, way to miss the point.

EDIT: Or prove it, actually. Dude, it's not that serious.

 

[Omega Monkey]

You need to lighten up young man and go shopping for a sense of humor and stop being a bore! lol

I think you meant to quote the guy whose sales ethos is "my way or the highway, and if you don't like it you're a PROBLEM and you can GTFO my face!!" and not myself who makes an effort to negotiate with people who want to negotiate in good faith.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I think you meant to quote the guy whose sales ethos is "my way or the highway, and if you don't like it you're a PROBLEM and you can GTFO my face!!" and not myself who makes an effort to negotiate with people who want to negotiate in good faith.

Often we read too much into the buying and selling of fine preowned Bass equipment.

Sometimes there are those left searching for answers to unresolved situations that have no answer, but do have solutions.

I, personally, don't feel a need to negotiate every transactional situation I step into. Could I attempt to abuse? Yes. Do I ask about terms at times? Yes. Have I evaluated and made a decision based on features, condition, (resale) and intangibles such as mojo and vibe? Of, course!

Ukko mearly points out that ownership of something is the starting point of commerce and the free exchange of negotiable consideration is based on the relinquishing of property rights that the owner sets. In some situations the buyer wants to set the terms, but in the end, it is the seller that is actually doing it.

I just had a great, no BS buy last night here on TB. The deal was done, then we talked about how to get it done.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Literally everyone else already understands that obviously a buyer can't just name a price and take the stuff, otherwise it's called stealing. That's so beyond basic which is why no one else is really bringing it up. So sure, the seller can set a price they won't sell below, but the buyer can set a price they won't buy above. Which direction you're going really make zero difference. Essentially the seller is trying to "buy" cash with their item. It's functionally the same and both parties are equal. When things go the most smoothly is when both sides are willing to move a little from intractable positions to come to a mutually agreeable mid point. NOT one person being a richard and making demands and claiming anyone who doesn't want to meet those demands is a "problem". That's just straight up ridiculous and highly anti-social. Just because someone makes a $900 offer on your $1000 listed item doesn't make them a "problem". You can take the their offer, leave it, or make a counter. But the idea that somehow giving any consideration to them is going to lead to a series of events where they continue to grind you down to nothing is ridiculous and not supported by fact. I've literally never had that happen as a seller. Now, what DOES happen sometimes if when you make a counter offer as a seller, is that the buyer might come back with some non-monetary alteration of the deal, much like in this case (no pun intended). That doesn't mean they're a "problem" it just means they're creatively and proactively trying to make the deal happen on the budget they have to work with (whether real or arbitrary).

I have to wonder who inappropriately touched ukko in one of these deals to make him so rancorous and intransigent. In my experience, when you filter out the egregious low ballers, probably 80% of the people left who are trying to negotiate are doing it in good faith. His whole approach and how he talks about it is clearly just filled with utter contempt for anyone who MIGHT DARE to offer less than his kingly and divine terms. It's really over the top even by TB standards.

If you're a nice and reasonable person, who lists good quality equipment with good pictures and accurate and honest descriptions, and sets prices appropriately, you will usually have good luck with sales. Obviously if you don't actually want to sell the thing, setting the price unreasonably high and hoping you get lucky is a perfectly valid tactic. But you still don't have to be a jerk about it. "Sorry, I'm not super eager to sell this, but for the right price from an enthusiastic buyer, I might do it." That's what a reasonable response to an offer on something like that would look like. Not, "YOU ARE A PROBLEM AND I MUST NOW DESTROY YOU FOR INSULTING MY KINGDOM!"

Anyway, maybe ukko needs to take a break from selling and have some nice herbal tea and a nap and see if maybe he's a little less cranky and irritable afterwards. And again, totally not someone I would want to deal with as a buyer.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

....I just received my tracking number from my seller from TB yesterday...

Odd, I think we both enjoyed mutual respect, no haggling nor unreasonablness from me on a buy that meets my needs, a good faith effort in the offering of fine preowned Bass equipment at a fair market price and cooperation in terms with prompt action on both sides.

Everybody got what they wanted...

I love it when a plan comes together!

 

[Omega Monkey]

But you act as if perfect transactions where you don't have to haggle are the norm. They aren't. Probably 50% of the time or more, if you're not able to haggle, you're paying too much. Maybe you don't care, but most people want to spend as little as they need to on an item. And there's nothing saying that transactions involving haggling can't be pleasant and problem free. You're making leaps in your argument that are not based in how things typically actually happen. And I would also add, that when deals like that DO happen, it's because the seller has ALREADY essentially gone through the haggling internally OR the buyer just doesn't really care about the price (which is rare).

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

But you act as if perfect transactions where you don't have to haggle are the norm. They aren't. Probably 50% of the time or more, if you're not able to haggle, you're paying too much. Maybe you don't care, but most people want to spend as little as they need to on an item. And there's nothing saying that transactions involving haggling can't be pleasant and problem free. You're making leaps in your argument that are not based in how things typically actually happen. And I would also add, that when deals like that DO happen, it's because the seller has ALREADY essentially gone through the haggling internally OR the buyer just doesn't really care about the price (which is rare).

Fortunately, as Ukko is well aware, there are plenty of people out there just like you to be avoided. It's a choice as to how much your willing to deal with in making a sale regardless of potential profit. These individuals come hand in hand with liability, regret and a sense of mental fatigue.

You keep fighting the good fight for truth, justice and supply side economics!

Take care, I'm out...

 

[LBS-bass]

Funny, I would call someone like you a problem seller, unless you set prices beyond reasonably low. You don't really get to set the terms any more than the buyer. You have the choice not to sell and the buyer has the choice not to buy. Just like there may be other buyers, there are likely other sellers as well unless you have some one of a kind super desirable item. When selling and setting your price, you have to factor in desirability of the item, affordability of the item, as well as where your price fits in with the market in general.

Anyway, I maybe haven't "made a living" selling gear, (what a ridiculous standard for knowledge/competence, just turn on the news any given day and you'll always see at least one example of a person "making a living" at something they are completely unqualified for) but I have bought and sold a f ton of it over the years, and I've made money on almost all of it, so maybe I kinda know what I'm doing. Yes, there are people that are time wasters, but you still have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. That's just good business sense, "don't be a ...".

It really annoys some people to have to admit they don't have any power in a situation, doesn't it? The seller has the stuff you want. All you have is money and a decision. And unless you're wealthy, you're not tossing money at the thing you want in any major way in order to acquire it.

No, most buyers give away the only power they have by insisting on "the deal." Sorry, but that's exactly how it works. And yeah, experience really is doing something long enough to know how it works. You're just annoyed that someone with experience didn't agree with you.

If the seller NEEDED to be motivated to make that deal, he would. He isn't, so he won't. It's no more complicated than that. But our culture nowadays is one where we whine and blame when someone says no to us.

 

[mcnach]

[... lots of stuff...]

I have to wonder who inappropriately touched ukko in one of these deals to make him so rancorous and intransigent.

[...]

In my experience, when you filter out the egregious low ballers, probably 80% of the people left who are trying to negotiate are doing it in good faith. His whole approach and how he talks about it is clearly just filled with utter contempt for anyone who MIGHT DARE to offer less than his kingly and divine terms.

[...]

But you still don't have to be a jerk about it. "Sorry, I'm not super eager to sell this, but for the right price from an enthusiastic buyer, I might do it." That's what a reasonable response to an offer on something like that would look like. Not, "YOU ARE A PROBLEM AND I MUST NOW DESTROY YOU FOR INSULTING MY KINGDOM!"

Anyway, maybe ukko needs to take a break from selling and have some nice herbal tea and a nap and see if maybe he's a little less cranky and irritable afterwards. And again, totally not someone I would want to deal with as a buyer.

!!!

Really???

That was comedy gold.
I hope you've got lots of nice herbal tea, because it sounds like it's you who really need it

 

[MultiScaleMale]

But you act as if perfect transactions where you don't have to haggle are the norm. They aren't. Probably 50% of the time or more, if you're not able to haggle, you're paying too much. Maybe you don't care, but most people want to spend as little as they need to on an item. And there's nothing saying that transactions involving haggling can't be pleasant and problem free. You're making leaps in your argument that are not based in how things typically actually happen. And I would also add, that when deals like that DO happen, it's because the seller has ALREADY essentially gone through the haggling internally OR the buyer just doesn't really care about the price (which is rare).

I just set a good price and wait for someone to buy it. I don't deal with the haggling stuff when I know I've set the price right. Most of the time hagglers are indistinguishable form low ballers.

 

[gln1955]

Literally everyone else already understands that obviously a buyer can't just name a price and take the stuff, otherwise it's called stealing. That's so beyond basic which is why no one else is really bringing it up. So sure, the seller can set a price they won't sell below, but the buyer can set a price they won't buy above. Which direction you're going really make zero difference. Essentially the seller is trying to "buy" cash with their item. It's functionally the same and both parties are equal. When things go the most smoothly is when both sides are willing to move a little from intractable positions to come to a mutually agreeable mid point. NOT one person being a richard and making demands and claiming anyone who doesn't want to meet those demands is a "problem". That's just straight up ridiculous and highly anti-social. Just because someone makes a $900 offer on your $1000 listed item doesn't make them a "problem". You can take the their offer, leave it, or make a counter. But the idea that somehow giving any consideration to them is going to lead to a series of events where they continue to grind you down to nothing is ridiculous and not supported by fact. I've literally never had that happen as a seller. Now, what DOES happen sometimes if when you make a counter offer as a seller, is that the buyer might come back with some non-monetary alteration of the deal, much like in this case (no pun intended). That doesn't mean they're a "problem" it just means they're creatively and proactively trying to make the deal happen on the budget they have to work with (whether real or arbitrary).

I have to wonder who inappropriately touched ukko in one of these deals to make him so rancorous and intransigent. In my experience, when you filter out the egregious low ballers, probably 80% of the people left who are trying to negotiate are doing it in good faith. His whole approach and how he talks about it is clearly just filled with utter contempt for anyone who MIGHT DARE to offer less than his kingly and divine terms. It's really over the top even by TB standards.

If you're a nice and reasonable person, who lists good quality equipment with good pictures and accurate and honest descriptions, and sets prices appropriately, you will usually have good luck with sales. Obviously if you don't actually want to sell the thing, setting the price unreasonably high and hoping you get lucky is a perfectly valid tactic. But you still don't have to be a jerk about it. "Sorry, I'm not super eager to sell this, but for the right price from an enthusiastic buyer, I might do it." That's what a reasonable response to an offer on something like that would look like. Not, "YOU ARE A PROBLEM AND I MUST NOW DESTROY YOU FOR INSULTING MY KINGDOM!"

Anyway, maybe ukko needs to take a break from selling and have some nice herbal tea and a nap and see if maybe he's a little less cranky and irritable afterwards. And again, totally not someone I would want to deal with as a buyer.

Quite the maifesto you're putting out there. Just realize that much of the world does not approach buying the selling like you do. It doesn't make them wrong, so maybe lose the attitude.

 

[Omega Monkey]

The seller has the stuff you want.

MAYBE, they do. It depends on the price. A transaction by definition requires 2 parties. Not sure why you don't seem to get that. My point is mainly that if you want to sell successfully, a little courtesy and cooperation goes a long way towards improving the chances of that. No one is saying they should relinquish their stuff on buyer demand, or accept crazy low ball offers.

No, most buyers give away the only power they have by insisting on "the deal."

I really have no idea what you mean by this. I already mentioned a specific instance of my own where I held the line of a max price I was willing to pay and in the end it worked out for me. If I had accepted the seller's "final" price, I would have been throwing money away that I didn't want to spend on that particular gear (the drum set I mentioned). I'm not sure how that means I "gave up my power". In the end, I got the gear I wanted (I got a really nice albeit "beginner" 6 piece drum kit plus a few other odds and ends for less than $400 in overall great shape), at the price I wanted. All I had to do was walk away from the deal and let the guy come to his senses after a few days. Sure, it doesn't always go like that, but there's always other fun stuff to spend money on. I would have been if I walked away and that was the end of it, that's my whole point. Buyers walk away from deals too, it's not reserved for sellers as you seem to think.

it sounds like it's you who really need it

Not the guy who has a bloodthirst for any infidel who might DARE make an offer on his PRECIOUSSSSSSS gear? Ohhhhhhhhh k pal. Not sure why I'm getting ganged up for advocating courtesy and flexibility. Those to me seem like unassailably good things, but then again we live in an upside "flat earth and chemtrail" post factual world of craziness. So what the hell do I know?

I just set a good price and wait for someone to buy it. I don't deal with the haggling stuff when I know I've set the price right. Most of the time hagglers are indistinguishable form low ballers.

But like I said before, if you've truly set the price that way, you've already done the haggling for the person. That's not my preference, because in my experience, probably at least half of people are going to haggle no matter what (and I am close to that, unless something is just crazy cheap already). So I would rather set my prices with some "meat on the bone" to enable that. Plus, it can be hard to predict sometimes what someone might pay for a given item at a given time, so sometimes you get lucky with a slightly higher starting price. I had a high quality but VERY niche hifi item I was selling a few years ago on ebay. I started the bidding at the lowest I was willing to take (which was roughly the going rate), and set the buy it now at optimistically the highest I thought someone might go for. Between the time the ad went live while I was still checking things out and the time I checked my email a few minutes later, someone had ALREADY bought it. That's not necessarily common, but instances like that make a case for starting a bit higher but being willing to come down.

And even with that general practice, I rarely end up taking less for an item than I'd really like to get. And when I don't get as much as I want, it's usually because I don't have the budget and/or space to keep hanging onto something. On balance, I not only usually get as much as I want for items, but I usually come out ahead compared to what I paid. And part of that is because I'm also screening out obnoxious buyers who price things unrealistically high and are unwilling to negotiate.

Anyway, I think I've made my point well enough. Let the haters re-commence hating.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

But like I said before, if you've truly set the price that way, you've already done the haggling for the person. That's not my preference, because in my experience, probably at least half of people are going to haggle no matter what (and I am close to that, unless something is just crazy cheap already). So I would rather set my prices with some "meat on the bone" to enable that. Plus, it can be hard to predict sometimes what someone might pay for a given item at a given time, so sometimes you get lucky with a slightly higher starting price. I had a high quality but VERY niche hifi item I was selling a few years ago on ebay. I started the bidding at the lowest I was willing to take (which was roughly the going rate), and set the buy it now at optimistically the highest I thought someone might go for. Between the time the ad went live while I was still checking things out and the time I checked my email a few minutes later, someone had ALREADY bought it. That's not necessarily common, but instances like that make a case for starting a bit higher but being willing to come down.

And even with that general practice, I rarely end up taking less for an item than I'd really like to get. And when I don't get as much as I want, it's usually because I don't have the budget and/or space to keep hanging onto something. On balance, I not only usually get as much as I want for items, but I usually come out ahead compared to what I paid. And part of that is because I'm also screening out obnoxious buyers who price things unrealistically high and are unwilling to negotiate.

Anyway, I think I've made my point well enough. Let the haters re-commence hating.

I've sold a thing or two over the years. I've been happy with my system, not trying to convert you.