Would this put you off as a buyer?

[bobyoung53]

So I was looking at a bass on Reverb and a large volume seller has a bass I like priced at $2700, the bass is within a fair price range for what it is although on the high end, one of the downsides for me is it has a non original damaged case. The sellers price is firm, no " make offer" feature

The same seller has another bass of the same make, model and vintage with a nice original case but the color and condition of the bass is less desirable so its priced at $1800

* I had mistakenly suggested he has hundreds of guitars listed, most of his inventory are pedals, he has 18 guitars listed in total*


I had emailed him and said I would be interested in purchasing your $2700 bass if you would swap out the case with the case from the other listing.

He replied with one sentence that he " wouldn't be willing to do that "

Me personally, to make a sale, I would be happy to, in my opinion the condition of the case really has no bearing on value of the instrument it's more the fact I already have several basses with worn broken cases.

The demeanor of the reply makes me want to take an antacid for my G.A.S and move along


Am I unreasonable?

I would tell him to go fly a kite, life is too short to deal with unreasonable sellers.

 

[Elusive1]

I already mentioned a specific instance of my own where I held the line of a max price I was willing to pay and in the end it worked out for me. If I had accepted the seller's "final" price, I would have been throwing money away that I didn't want to spend on that particular gear

All I had to do was walk away from the deal and let the guy come to his senses after a few days.

So basically you got lucky once and just assumed since then that it's something everyone should allow you to do all the time... talk about self-entitlement.

I really have no idea what you mean by this.

So what the hell do I know?

Nothing about actual sales, apparently.

 

[Omega Monkey]

I've sold a thing or two over the years. I've been happy with my system, not trying to convert you.

No, you misunderstand. You're basically already doing what I'm saying. There's nothing to "convert".

So basically you got lucky once and just assumed since then that it's something everyone should allow you to do all the time... talk about self-entitlement.

Nothing about actual sales, apparently.

Well aren't you a piece of work.

My point is you have to be willing to walk away as a buyer. Does it always turn out like it did for me in that case, no and I never said it did. But no seller "allows" me to do anything. The buyer is no more obligated to make a transaction than ukko is saying the seller is. I exercised that right and it worked out. But the worst case would have been I didn't end up paying too much for something and would have had to get something else or go without. That's fine when you're talking about relatively common items. I placed no expectations on the guy, I just dusted my hands and left when the negotiation reached a dead end for me. If you have a problem with that, that's on you. You have to go in hoping that a deal can happen, but accepting that it might not.

And again, I know plenty about sales. 9 times out of 10, or more, things that I've bought and sold, I've made money on. Maybe not a TON of money (I dunno, does a 200% profit after 6 months count as "a ton"?), but if I had the kind of capital to buy $4000 les pauls and whatnot, I have no doubt that over time I could turn it into a whole lot more. In the meantime, I'm over here turning cheap gear into mid priced gear into nicer and nicer gear. I'm not really sure what part of my philosophy of being friendly, accomodating/flexible, setting prices fairly but with wiggle room, but also not taking any crap, and being willing to walk away as a buyer or seller is so objectionable to some of you. I'm just the guy getting paid to have a drum set for 8 years for my band to use for practice, etc... obviously I'm a total idiot. Some people, jesus.

 

[Elusive1]

I'm not really sure what part of my philosophy of being friendly, accomodating/flexible, setting prices fairly but with wiggle room, but also not taking any crap, and being willing to walk away as a buyer or seller is so objectionable to some of you.

obviously I'm a total idiot. Some people, jesus.

It's all in the attitude and mentality, bro.

Choose your words more carefully in the future and maybe people will take you seriously.

 

[rjovin]

MAYBE, they do. It depends on the price. A transaction by definition requires 2 parties. Not sure why you don't seem to get that. My point is mainly that if you want to sell successfully, a little courtesy and cooperation goes a long way towards improving the chances of that. No one is saying they should relinquish their stuff on buyer demand, or accept crazy low ball offers.



I really have no idea what you mean by this. I already mentioned a specific instance of my own where I held the line of a max price I was willing to pay and in the end it worked out for me. If I had accepted the seller's "final" price, I would have been throwing money away that I didn't want to spend on that particular gear (the drum set I mentioned). I'm not sure how that means I "gave up my power". In the end, I got the gear I wanted (I got a really nice albeit "beginner" 6 piece drum kit plus a few other odds and ends for less than $400 in overall great shape), at the price I wanted. All I had to do was walk away from the deal and let the guy come to his senses after a few days. Sure, it doesn't always go like that, but there's always other fun stuff to spend money on. I would have been if I walked away and that was the end of it, that's my whole point. Buyers walk away from deals too, it's not reserved for sellers as you seem to think.



Not the guy who has a bloodthirst for any infidel who might DARE make an offer on his PRECIOUSSSSSSS gear? Ohhhhhhhhh k pal. Not sure why I'm getting ganged up for advocating courtesy and flexibility. Those to me seem like unassailably good things, but then again we live in an upside "flat earth and chemtrail" post factual world of craziness. So what the hell do I know?



But like I said before, if you've truly set the price that way, you've already done the haggling for the person. That's not my preference, because in my experience, probably at least half of people are going to haggle no matter what (and I am close to that, unless something is just crazy cheap already). So I would rather set my prices with some "meat on the bone" to enable that. Plus, it can be hard to predict sometimes what someone might pay for a given item at a given time, so sometimes you get lucky with a slightly higher starting price. I had a high quality but VERY niche hifi item I was selling a few years ago on ebay. I started the bidding at the lowest I was willing to take (which was roughly the going rate), and set the buy it now at optimistically the highest I thought someone might go for. Between the time the ad went live while I was still checking things out and the time I checked my email a few minutes later, someone had ALREADY bought it. That's not necessarily common, but instances like that make a case for starting a bit higher but being willing to come down.

And even with that general practice, I rarely end up taking less for an item than I'd really like to get. And when I don't get as much as I want, it's usually because I don't have the budget and/or space to keep hanging onto something. On balance, I not only usually get as much as I want for items, but I usually come out ahead compared to what I paid. And part of that is because I'm also screening out obnoxious buyers who price things unrealistically high and are unwilling to negotiate.

Anyway, I think I've made my point well enough. Let the haters re-commence hating.

You're boring.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Funny, I would call someone like you a problem seller, unless you set prices beyond reasonably low. You don't really get to set the terms any more than the buyer. You have the choice not to sell and the buyer has the choice not to buy. Just like there may be other buyers, there are likely other sellers as well unless you have some one of a kind super desirable item. When selling and setting your price, you have to factor in desirability of the item, affordability of the item, as well as where your price fits in with the market in general.

Anyway, I maybe haven't "made a living" selling gear, (what a ridiculous standard for knowledge/competence, just turn on the news any given day and you'll always see at least one example of a person "making a living" at something they are completely unqualified for) but I have bought and sold a f ton of it over the years, and I've made money on almost all of it, so maybe I kinda know what I'm doing. Yes, there are people that are time wasters, but you still have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. That's just good business sense, "don't be a ...".

The seller doesn't get to set the terms any more than the buyer? If you truly believe this no, you do not really know what you're doing. Why should be extremely obvious.


The buyer has the power to walk away. That's all. The seller doesn't have to sell to you for any alternative to what they're asking and offering.

So what else does the buyer get to do?

 

[Brad Johnson]

But you act as if perfect transactions where you don't have to haggle are the norm. They aren't. Probably 50% of the time or more, if you're not able to haggle, you're paying too much. Maybe you don't care, but most people want to spend as little as they need to on an item. And there's nothing saying that transactions involving haggling can't be pleasant and problem free. You're making leaps in your argument that are not based in how things typically actually happen. And I would also add, that when deals like that DO happen, it's because the seller has ALREADY essentially gone through the haggling internally OR the buyer just doesn't really care about the price (which is rare).

This does not reflect my buying or selling experience, both of which cover at least fifty years. I seek out items that are already attractively priced instead of looking for a challenge. I strike fast. I price items with the same intent. I've had more successes than failures. I do understand that many might think your way is the norm... I'll put up what I've been able to do against anyone.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Literally everyone else already understands that obviously a buyer can't just name a price and take the stuff, otherwise it's called stealing. That's so beyond basic which is why no one else is really bringing it up. So sure, the seller can set a price they won't sell below, but the buyer can set a price they won't buy above. Which direction you're going really make zero difference. Essentially the seller is trying to "buy" cash with their item. It's functionally the same and both parties are equal. When things go the most smoothly is when both sides are willing to move a little from intractable positions to come to a mutually agreeable mid point. NOT one person being a richard and making demands and claiming anyone who doesn't want to meet those demands is a "problem". That's just straight up ridiculous and highly anti-social. Just because someone makes a $900 offer on your $1000 listed item doesn't make them a "problem". You can take the their offer, leave it, or make a counter. But the idea that somehow giving any consideration to them is going to lead to a series of events where they continue to grind you down to nothing is ridiculous and not supported by fact. I've literally never had that happen as a seller. Now, what DOES happen sometimes if when you make a counter offer as a seller, is that the buyer might come back with some non-monetary alteration of the deal, much like in this case (no pun intended). That doesn't mean they're a "problem" it just means they're creatively and proactively trying to make the deal happen on the budget they have to work with (whether real or arbitrary).

I have to wonder who inappropriately touched ukko in one of these deals to make him so rancorous and intransigent. In my experience, when you filter out the egregious low ballers, probably 80% of the people left who are trying to negotiate are doing it in good faith. His whole approach and how he talks about it is clearly just filled with utter contempt for anyone who MIGHT DARE to offer less than his kingly and divine terms. It's really over the top even by TB standards.

If you're a nice and reasonable person, who lists good quality equipment with good pictures and accurate and honest descriptions, and sets prices appropriately, you will usually have good luck with sales. Obviously if you don't actually want to sell the thing, setting the price unreasonably high and hoping you get lucky is a perfectly valid tactic. But you still don't have to be a jerk about it. "Sorry, I'm not super eager to sell this, but for the right price from an enthusiastic buyer, I might do it." That's what a reasonable response to an offer on something like that would look like. Not, "YOU ARE A PROBLEM AND I MUST NOW DESTROY YOU FOR INSULTING MY KINGDOM!"

Anyway, maybe ukko needs to take a break from selling and have some nice herbal tea and a nap and see if maybe he's a little less cranky and irritable afterwards. And again, totally not someone I would want to deal with as a buyer.

Wow.
Seriously. Especially the seller is buying cash. If I had a buyer that abstract...


How does this not completely contradict your idea that the seller and buyer have equal power?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I would tell him to go fly a kite, life is too short to deal with unreasonable sellers.

Just curious, what was the unreasonable part, I'm still missing it?

 

[Brad Johnson]

No, you misunderstand. You're basically already doing what I'm saying. There's nothing to "convert".



Well aren't you a piece of work.

My point is you have to be willing to walk away as a buyer. Does it always turn out like it did for me in that case, no and I never said it did. But no seller "allows" me to do anything. The buyer is no more obligated to make a transaction than ukko is saying the seller is. I exercised that right and it worked out. But the worst case would have been I didn't end up paying too much for something and would have had to get something else or go without. That's fine when you're talking about relatively common items. I placed no expectations on the guy, I just dusted my hands and left when the negotiation reached a dead end for me. If you have a problem with that, that's on you. You have to go in hoping that a deal can happen, but accepting that it might not.

And again, I know plenty about sales. 9 times out of 10, or more, things that I've bought and sold, I've made money on. Maybe not a TON of money (I dunno, does a 200% profit after 6 months count as "a ton"?), but if I had the kind of capital to buy $4000 les pauls and whatnot, I have no doubt that over time I could turn it into a whole lot more. In the meantime, I'm over here turning cheap gear into mid priced gear into nicer and nicer gear. I'm not really sure what part of my philosophy of being friendly, accomodating/flexible, setting prices fairly but with wiggle room, but also not taking any crap, and being willing to walk away as a buyer or seller is so objectionable to some of you. I'm just the guy getting paid to have a drum set for 8 years for my band to use for practice, etc... obviously I'm a total idiot. Some people, jesus.

So now you're putting qualifiers on this? Was there mention of this being a common item? Does it all change if it's harder to find? There's a pretty amazing amount of bent logic in these rants.


Quarantine gold!

I knew a guy who thought like this IRL. Funny guy. He knew about my successes on the used market and checked out a bass I had in a store on consignment. The bass was well over $3k new. I priced it at $1,400. According to him and the store owners he came in and played it every day for two weeks, loved the bass but wouldn't pull the trigger because as he told me he wanted a "Brad Johnson deal" at $1,100. I told him that a Brad Johnson deal is fairly easy... you just need to get there before me and pull the trigger. I didn't budge.


The bass sold at the end of the second week for the low asking price. I did not set the price to haggle, a common thing buyers seem to mistake for a rule. I set it for a quick sale. The guy still talks about how he blew getting a great deal on a great bass because he was holding out for an absurd one. Bonehead.

If a deal is right, shut up and take it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No offense but a lot of this comes off like this phone call...

B. Hi. I'm interested in your item listed for $500. I'll give you $375 right now!

S. No thanks, I know it's actually priced well. Thanks for calling.

B. But I'm entitled to a better price!

S. *click*

 

[9c1ny]

I'm glad my question has spurred so much chatter.
So the bass with the case I would have liked sold (I'm sure the case was irrelevant to the sale) and the seller still has the bass I was considering and likely will for awhile at his asking price.
The more I think about the bass and its relative importance in the grand scheme of life the more I realize I should hang on to my money, lean times are ahead for much of the world and there will be better basses at better prices and people who can obviously put the money to better use.
Stay safe out there and carry on

 

[Brad Johnson]

Might be a blessing in disguise. That's how I typically look at things I didn't move on.

 

[mcnach]

MAYBE, they do. It depends on the price. A transaction by definition requires 2 parties. Not sure why you don't seem to get that. My point is mainly that if you want to sell successfully, a little courtesy and cooperation goes a long way towards improving the chances of that. No one is saying they should relinquish their stuff on buyer demand, or accept crazy low ball offers.



I really have no idea what you mean by this. I already mentioned a specific instance of my own where I held the line of a max price I was willing to pay and in the end it worked out for me. If I had accepted the seller's "final" price, I would have been throwing money away that I didn't want to spend on that particular gear (the drum set I mentioned). I'm not sure how that means I "gave up my power". In the end, I got the gear I wanted (I got a really nice albeit "beginner" 6 piece drum kit plus a few other odds and ends for less than $400 in overall great shape), at the price I wanted. All I had to do was walk away from the deal and let the guy come to his senses after a few days. Sure, it doesn't always go like that, but there's always other fun stuff to spend money on. I would have been if I walked away and that was the end of it, that's my whole point. Buyers walk away from deals too, it's not reserved for sellers as you seem to think.



Not the guy who has a bloodthirst for any infidel who might DARE make an offer on his PRECIOUSSSSSSS gear? Ohhhhhhhhh k pal. Not sure why I'm getting ganged up for advocating courtesy and flexibility. Those to me seem like unassailably good things, but then again we live in an upside "flat earth and chemtrail" post factual world of craziness. So what the hell do I know?



But like I said before, if you've truly set the price that way, you've already done the haggling for the person. That's not my preference, because in my experience, probably at least half of people are going to haggle no matter what (and I am close to that, unless something is just crazy cheap already). So I would rather set my prices with some "meat on the bone" to enable that. Plus, it can be hard to predict sometimes what someone might pay for a given item at a given time, so sometimes you get lucky with a slightly higher starting price. I had a high quality but VERY niche hifi item I was selling a few years ago on ebay. I started the bidding at the lowest I was willing to take (which was roughly the going rate), and set the buy it now at optimistically the highest I thought someone might go for. Between the time the ad went live while I was still checking things out and the time I checked my email a few minutes later, someone had ALREADY bought it. That's not necessarily common, but instances like that make a case for starting a bit higher but being willing to come down.

And even with that general practice, I rarely end up taking less for an item than I'd really like to get. And when I don't get as much as I want, it's usually because I don't have the budget and/or space to keep hanging onto something. On balance, I not only usually get as much as I want for items, but I usually come out ahead compared to what I paid. And part of that is because I'm also screening out obnoxious buyers who price things unrealistically high and are unwilling to negotiate.

Anyway, I think I've made my point well enough. Let the haters re-commence hating.

erm... cool story

cabin fever?

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Axioms:

What goes up, must come down.

- Isaac Newton

Where there is supply, the demand shall meet.

- TalkBass

 

[bassstrangler]

This thread really "put me off" as a reader.

 

[gln1955]

This thread really "put me off" as a reader.

The trend seems to be if a thread doesn't go the way you think it should, you start another thread to complain about it.

 

[bassstrangler]

The trend seems to be if a thread doesn't go the way you think it should, you start another thread to complain about it.

Are you using "you" in the collective sense or "you" referring to me?

I can't recall starting a thread to complain about another thread.

I found it amazing that a lot of posters in this thread really seemed to fill in the blanks.

 

[gln1955]

Are you using "you" in the collective sense or "you" referring to me?

I can't recall starting a thread to complain about another thread.

I found it amazing that a lot of posters in this thread really seemed to fill in the blanks.

No, not referring to "you". It's a general thing I've been seeing recently.

 

[Omega Monkey]

It's all in the attitude and mentality, bro.

Choose your words more carefully in the future and maybe people will take you seriously.

LOL, you canNOT be serious right now.

The buyer has the power to walk away. That's all. The seller doesn't have to sell to you for any alternative to what they're asking and offering.

Right, they can both walk away. That is the power they both have. Not sure how some of you are not getting this.

I seek out items that are already attractively priced instead of looking for a challenge.

Nobody said anything about "looking" for a challenge. Sometimes the item you want is listed for more than you want to pay. I guess if you want to just wait theoretically forever for the "perfect" deal (not sure how that's really any different from you calling me "entitled" to a particular price, which I never claimed), then you can pass all those by, but usually I'd rather take a chance the guy will be cooperative. Some people you make a first counter offer and they jump at it. Some people don't budget. That's the nature of the beast.

So now you're putting qualifiers on this? Was there mention of this being a common item? Does it all change if it's harder to find? There's a pretty amazing amount of bent logic in these rants.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I had to hold your hand while I stroke your hair and explicitly explain that every deal is different and you might have to adjust your approach based on the situation. Yes, buying (or selling) a Hendrix owned strat might be a bit different than picking up a used squier on craigslist. That doesn't really change anything I've said so far. There's nothing "bent" about it. I'm speaking in generalities about the bulk of everyday gear transactions. Even still, if you list a Hendrix owned strat at 20k, it will probably be snapped up tomorrow. At $10m, it might take a little longer. If someone offers you $9.5m, you might want to think about taking it, or counter at $9.75m, otherwise maybe you'll sit on it for a long time, and once the rich boomers all die out, who knows what prices on something like that will do.

Again, my whole point is to try to be courteous and flexible, so I'm really struggling to get why that's pushing so many people's buttons. Honestly it's kind of hilarious. I have people who come out of the gate insulting me, and then tell me I have a bad attitude, lol. Because I'm advocating not being an inflexible jerk. And i have Ted Kaczynski telling me I have a cabin fever. Amazing times we live in. But reading is still fundamental.