Writing Key Signatures For Modal Music

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Bryan R. Tyler, Jul 27, 2018.


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  1. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    G Major is an "allowed" chord in the key of A Major. Many Grateful Dead songs use this type of chord change.
     
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  2. Still plain wrong.
     
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  3. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    @WUTP, I deleted the joke. I'm sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  4. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    That's definitely how we would have written it (key signature of 3 sharps, with G natural accidentals as necessary), back when I used to work at the publishing house.
     
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  5. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Great video!
    "If you get confused, listen to the music play." ;)
     
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  6. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Jan 15, 2006
    Just because the key signature is A major does not mean that’s the key of the song.
    Keys are momentarily modulated when accidentals are added to the structure.
    This becomes more evident when arranging parts ( such as horn and string accompaniment) to complement the song.
    Listen to some big band or concert band arrangements of pop tunes.
     
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  7. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    There are certainly songs for which that is true. "Franklin's Tower" is not one of them. Listen to the video WUTP posted above. What chord do they resolve to at the end the song?

    Playing the b7 accidental in a blues/rock song is not necessarily a "modulation" and doesn't typically signal a key change.
     
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  8. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Jan 15, 2006
    The harmony structure supports the change of key, though not a “modulation”. Check out some stuff written for 16 to 50 instruments in the same band.
     
  9. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Jan 15, 2006
    I’d consider the F chord a passing tone.
     
  10. Rev J

    Rev J

    Jun 14, 2012
    Berkeley, Ca.
    Generally I just use the key signature of the relative Major of the mode. This is how I was taught in music school and it just makes sense to me. Just like you would use the same key signature for C Major and A minor.

    C/S,
    Rev J
     
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  11. tradernick

    tradernick

    Mar 19, 2008
    Actually, the chord progression, melody and guitar part all show it's in A.

    Sorry, you just seem so sure it's in D, and it's so clearly not. I get the feeling that if a University music prof told you it was in A, you'd still say 'Nope, I'm right'.

    EDIT: This is so obviously in A, I'm starting to wonder if we're listening to the same version. Are you listening to the version I linked in my last post?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  12. Blissful_Lad

    Blissful_Lad Inactive

    Feb 22, 2018
    LA/NYC
    Some of you need to go to a REAL music school and stop with the misguided youtube "theory lessons".

    Question: What's the Key Signature for F Blues (even the one copyists use)?

    Answer: Key of F, one flat - B♭

    Question: What's the the Tonic Chord and how is it spelled?

    Answer: F7 (F, A, C, E♭) - Even though there is no E♭ in the key signature.

    Question: How do you spell the IV chord?

    Answer: B♭, D, F, A♭- Even though there is no A♭ in the key signature.

    Question: Are there any modulations or key center changes in a 12-Bar Blues?

    Answer: No.
     
  13. He would probably insist that "GH" is the letter "F", because it sounds like F in ENOUGH. It's sad if people start to belive this BS. You are right, he is wrong. Again.
     
  14. Wrong. Just plain wrong. Kids, don't listen to this guy. He's wrong. Dead wrong. (No, it's not an opinion, it's a fact).
     
  15. Music does have some absolutes. If I play A and you say it's a F, it's absolutely wrong. It's not a matter of "hearing it different". Stop giving bad advice, stop giving wrong advice. If you feel insulted by people telling you you are dead wrong when you are dead wrong you're gonna have a hard time, because you are dead wrong. "2+2 is 5. -No, it isn't! -Don't insult me!!".
     
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  16. I have been working with small kids for a very long time. A lot of them feel insulted when they are told they are wrong. Most of them learn to stop having that feeling, because they realise that some things are right and some are wrong, and that it's ok to be wrong and to admit it when they are wrong. Some of them never learn, no matter how diplomatic and patient you are. Have a nice day.
     
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  17. Groove Master

    Groove Master Commercial User

    Apr 22, 2011
    Montreal
    Author of Groove 101, Slap 101 and Technique 101
    Well, usually key signatures represent the Major keys and their relative minors.

    Also when writing the key signature of a Major blues we use the major key even if the mixolydian chord is the base of that style of music.
    A Blues in F even if the I chord is F7 will be the key signature of F Major with one flat, not two.

    I also have seen So What (a modal piece based on the Dorian mode of) without flats as for the C major key but more often written in the key of D minor with one flat.

    In this case, it looks like mentioned above that the key signature of the tonality is based on the root of the major key which is A Major.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  18. klokker

    klokker

    Jan 7, 2009
    Steele City, NE
    I'd say it's a short modulation to another key in minor. It fits the theme, just another little twist. The F minor, to Bb major functions as another i, IV for the short instrumental. Then it's just back to the V of C major and you come home.
     
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  19. klokker

    klokker

    Jan 7, 2009
    Steele City, NE
    F minor. It modulates to f minor and and does i, IV there for the instrumental. What's expected, but doesn't happen is when you modulate back to the V of C, (G) it doesn't resolve right away, but stays there for the verse. Again, it's just so dang simple, but it really works well.
     
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  20. Clef_de_fa

    Clef_de_fa Guest

    Dec 25, 2011
    TB at is finest
     
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    Primary TB Assistant

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