Writing Key Signatures For Modal Music

[Mushroo]

What happens to the section where the G major chord happens?

G Major is an "allowed" chord in the key of A Major. Many Grateful Dead songs use this type of chord change.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

There are 3 chords - I, IV, and V or D, G, A, everything else is "something to talk about".

Still plain wrong.

 

[Mushroo]

@WUTP, I deleted the joke. I'm sorry.

 

[Mushroo]

Here is how some publishers deal with that G chord in Franklin's Tower (presumably in the key of A).
drool

View attachment 3096831

That's definitely how we would have written it (key signature of 3 sharps, with G natural accidentals as necessary), back when I used to work at the publishing house.

 

[Mushroo]

Great video!
"If you get confused, listen to the music play."

 

[Slevage]

Here is how some publishers deal with that G chord in Franklin's Tower (presumably in the key of A).
drool

View attachment 3096831

Just because the key signature is A major does not mean that's the key of the song.
Keys are momentarily modulated when accidentals are added to the structure.
This becomes more evident when arranging parts ( such as horn and string accompaniment) to complement the song.
Listen to some big band or concert band arrangements of pop tunes.

 

[Mushroo]

Just because the key signature is A major does not mean that's the key of the song.

There are certainly songs for which that is true. "Franklin's Tower" is not one of them. Listen to the video WUTP posted above. What chord do they resolve to at the end the song?

Keys are momentarily modulated when accidentals are added to the structure.

Playing the b7 accidental in a blues/rock song is not necessarily a "modulation" and doesn't typically signal a key change.

 

[Slevage]

There are certainly songs for which that is true. "Franklin's Tower" is not one of them. Listen to the video WUTP posted above. What chord do they resolve to at the end the song?



Playing the b7 accidental in a blues/rock song is not necessarily a "modulation" and doesn't typically signal a key change.

The harmony structure supports the change of key, though not a "modulation". Check out some stuff written for 16 to 50 instruments in the same band.

 

[Slevage]

I promise it's my last example of some confusing two chord progressions for today.
But of course, Bob Seger - Night Moves.

From the Internet.
View attachment 3096929 View attachment 3096930

I'd consider the F chord a passing tone.

 

[Rev J]

I can't read/right standard notation, so this is just my own curiosity here.

Looking at a simple song like the
The Grateful Dead's "Franklin's Tower," the chords are A, G, and D and the melody is based around A mixolydian. Would you mark it as the key of A and write a natural symbol next to every G? I don't think I've heard of a shorthand for modal music in the key signature, so would you just need to look at the chords throughout the piece and make the assumption?

Generally I just use the key signature of the relative Major of the mode. This is how I was taught in music school and it just makes sense to me. Just like you would use the same key signature for C Major and A minor.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[tradernick]

It does not matter what some of our highly-respected TB members think but you are correct - the song just exudes D as the song's tonal center. It's everywhere - in the Melody, in guitar line, etc...

Actually, the chord progression, melody and guitar part all show it's in A.

Sorry, you just seem so sure it's in D, and it's so clearly not. I get the feeling that if a University music prof told you it was in A, you'd still say 'Nope, I'm right'.

EDIT: This is so obviously in A, I'm starting to wonder if we're listening to the same version. Are you listening to the version I linked in my last post?

 

[Blissful_Lad]

Some of you need to go to a REAL music school and stop with the misguided youtube "theory lessons".

Question: What's the Key Signature for F Blues (even the one copyists use)?

Answer: Key of F, one flat - B♭

Question: What's the the Tonic Chord and how is it spelled?

Answer: F7 (F, A, C, E♭) - Even though there is no E♭ in the key signature.

Question: How do you spell the IV chord?

Answer: B♭, D, F, A♭- Even though there is no A♭ in the key signature.

Question: Are there any modulations or key center changes in a 12-Bar Blues?

Answer: No.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

EDIT: This is so obviously in A, I'm starting to wonder if we're listening to the same version. Are you listening to the version I linked in my last post?

He would probably insist that "GH" is the letter "F", because it sounds like F in ENOUGH. It's sad if people start to belive this BS. You are right, he is wrong. Again.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Fredrik,
1. The song is in D.

Wrong. Just plain wrong. Kids, don't listen to this guy. He's wrong. Dead wrong. (No, it's not an opinion, it's a fact).

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Music does not have Absolutes. A true MUSICIAN who creates/plays Music does not say insulting to another Musician who plays/creates Music. That's what I have learned from extensive experience.

Music does have some absolutes. If I play A and you say it's a F, it's absolutely wrong. It's not a matter of "hearing it different". Stop giving bad advice, stop giving wrong advice. If you feel insulted by people telling you you are dead wrong when you are dead wrong you're gonna have a hard time, because you are dead wrong. "2+2 is 5. -No, it isn't! -Don't insult me!!".

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Dear Fredrik,
Once again, a "seasoned/experienced/knowledgeable/experienced/etc..." musician would use dreamadream99 language.

A "seasoned/experienced/knowledgeable/experienced/etc..." teacher would be more diplomatic, instead of using "dead wrong" language.

I have been working with small kids for a very long time. A lot of them feel insulted when they are told they are wrong. Most of them learn to stop having that feeling, because they realise that some things are right and some are wrong, and that it's ok to be wrong and to admit it when they are wrong. Some of them never learn, no matter how diplomatic and patient you are. Have a nice day.

 

[Groove Master]

Well, usually key signatures represent the Major keys and their relative minors.

Also when writing the key signature of a Major blues we use the major key even if the mixolydian chord is the base of that style of music.
A Blues in F even if the I chord is F7 will be the key signature of F Major with one flat, not two.

I also have seen So What (a modal piece based on the Dorian mode of) without flats as for the C major key but more often written in the key of D minor with one flat.

In this case, it looks like mentioned above that the key signature of the tonality is based on the root of the major key which is A Major.

 

[klokker]

G F as V and IV is OK but what about that C7 in Chorus with clearly pronounced Bb in F major?

I'd say it's a short modulation to another key in minor. It fits the theme, just another little twist. The F minor, to Bb major functions as another i, IV for the short instrumental. Then it's just back to the V of C major and you come home.

 

[klokker]

That would be my answer!

P.S. Could you please elaborate that "to another key in Minor (!)?

F minor. It modulates to f minor and and does i, IV there for the instrumental. What's expected, but doesn't happen is when you modulate back to the V of C, (G) it doesn't resolve right away, but stays there for the verse. Again, it's just so dang simple, but it really works well.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

TB at is finest