Yet another pedal order question

[lowdown_billy]

After playing with no effects for years (guitards used so many _somebody_ had to play it straight ahead), this last month I got connected with a different project and four MXR pedals being sold on Craigslist by a guy who works for Line 6, which was kind of funny to me. I also got a (you guessed it, MXR) comp from a fellow TBer.

Thought I'd throw my my new board at y'all and get your opinions as to pedal order. And, yes, I read existing threads, thanks, and, no, I don't need to know best pedal order for metal.

Here's what I have now:

Bass>
Korg Pitchblack Tuner>
M288 Bass Octave Deluxe>
M84 Bass Fuzz Deluxe>
M82 Bass Envelope Filter>
M134 Stereo Chorus>
M133 MicroAmp Clean Boost>
Radial JDI>>XLR to Board and 1/4 to Amp Main

BTW -- There is an effects loop available on the amp (Ashdown ABM 210T combo), but its used primarily as a practice amp or gig stage monitor with the bulk of sound at a gig going through the FOH mains and subs. Sound guy EQs for the room at the board.

Here's my rationale for this order, if I have one:

Tuner -- also serves as mute switch for whole chain
Octaver -- seems to want the cleanest signal, also most likely to use in tandem with fuzz or envelope
Fuzz -- ---
|
Envelope -- Dunno, just sounds right to me.
|
Chorus-----
Comp -- set light and soft at 4:1 to even out signal from whole chain as needed; on most of the time. Post-envelope for easier triggering of that box.
Boost -- kick it up for solo or to school guitards as needed.
DI -- duh

I've messed with kicking everything on and while it sounds "good", I suppose, it's not particularly musically useful for me. As I noted, I'm most likely to use max three pedals at time: either octaver/fuzz or octaver/envelope into the comp, with occasional additional use of the boost. I often just use one box at a time into the comp.

I'm not sure I like chorus on bass at all these days -- although the M134 is a very sweet one. When I do use it, I use it alone (mostly for a cover of "Ceremony" we sometimes pull out).

I think the biggest question for me at the moment is the location of the comp. I'm pretty sure I want it after the envelope as I mentioned, but any thoughts on a different placement than I have would be appreciated, as would be any thoughts or suggestions on any of this. Thanks!

 

[lowdown_billy]

Oh, and just a general comment on the MXR Bass Innovations line of boxes: excellent preservation of the fundamental tone on all of them. Most of them have wet and dry knobs to dial in the balance you want, but even full wet the low end still seems solid.

 

[stambroker]

Here's my rationale for this order, if I have one:

Tuner -- also serves as mute switch for whole chain
Octaver -- seems to want the cleanest signal, also most likely to use in tandem with fuzz or envelope
Fuzz -- ---
|
Envelope -- Dunno, just sounds right to me.
|
Chorus-----
Comp -- set light and soft at 4:1 to even out signal from whole chain as needed; on most of the time. Post-envelope for easier triggering of that box.
Boost -- kick it up for solo or to school guitards as needed.
DI -- duh

I think the compression should be right after the tuner or at the very least behind the chorus. If it was me, I'd flow it so that it's:

Bass -> Tuner -> Compression -> Boost -> Octave -> Fuzz -> Chorus -> Envelope -> DI

And, there's a bit in the way of options. You should add the boost AFTER the compression to get a more consistant, full tonal boost (because all of the effects will be ramped up as well). With all effects active this should sound decent. I always put chorus/time based effects after the fuzz because I like the oscillating, but that's up to you. However, I put my octave after the fuzz because that kind of distorted low end is what I love. Then again, I have my fuzz/heavy effects blended in with an LS-2, so your experience may vary.

Regarding your DI: if you primarily play larger shows with PA reliance, then it's fine. But if you use your actual speakers it might be neat to place the DI box after the boost, so you get pure low end tone seperate from your main chain.

 

[lowdown_billy]

I think the compression should be right after the tuner or at the very least behind the chorus. If it was me, I'd flow it so that it's:

Bass -> Tuner -> Compression -> Boost -> Octave -> Fuzz -> Chorus -> Envelope -> DI

That order and your explanation mostly makes sense to me although I'm going to have to play with the comp before the envelope a bit to see how that interacts. I don't think I've done that yet, actually -- it just seemed like it wouldn't be a Good Thing, but hey, nothing like trying.

 

[MostlyBass]

I also use lots of MXR pedals.. Here's my order:

Micro Thumpinator ->
Tech21 VT Bass ->
MXR Compressor ->
MXR Bass Octave Deluxe ->
MXR Carbon Copy ->
MXR Micro Amp


I like the compressor early in the chain and the octave pedal seems to track better after the compressor. I put the compressor after the VT just because it keeps the levels from getting too hot if I turn up the drive on it.

 

[lowdown_billy]

Regarding your DI: if you primarily play larger shows with PA reliance, then it's fine. But if you use your actual speakers it might be neat to place the DI box after the boost, so you get pure low end tone seperate from your main chain.

Gonna do this. Or put in an additional splitter or DI at that point. It's not so much that we play huge halls (far from it), but just that we maintain a fairly low stage volume mostly due to our drum using V-drums and a common commitment to preserve what little hearing we have left. My concern with this whole foray into effects has been losing track of my basic function to groove; hearing the clean tone from my amp and effected signal back through the monitor might be a good way to go.

 

[stambroker]

That order and your explanation mostly makes sense to me although I'm going to have to play with the comp before the envelope a bit to see how that interacts. I don't think I've done that yet, actually -- it just seemed like it wouldn't be a Good Thing, but hey, nothing like trying.

You're right that octave pedals like a clean signal, but with a standard tuned 4 string bass it's going to be so low it will end up at least a little distorted (unless you have a phenomenally clear amp). That's why a lot of bassists use octave pedals in conjunction with fuzz/synth to take advantage of that lower oomph.

To my experience, compression pedals almost DEMAND a clean signal. It doesn't make much sense to compress something that occilates unpredictably like a fuzz or chorus, imo.

For example, I split my effects set up using a Boss LS-2. My "A" chain is my effects laden, fuzz/volume swell/delay rig that I will eventually add chorus & reverb to, and my "B" chain is usually clean just so I have a prominent low end. However, recently I added compression back into my rig into the "B" chain. My clean tone is compressed slightly parallel to my wild effects, making quite a strange combination. The only effects I would include before a compression are "always-on" effect shapers like EQ/shapers/effects you consider 'permanent'. Then again, there are probably great bassists on here that use compression completely differently.

tl;dr Good luck with your hunt, hope I've helped!

 

[lowdown_billy]

I also use lots of MXR pedals.. Here's my order:

Micro Thumpinator ->
Tech21 VT Bass ->
MXR Compressor ->
MXR Bass Octave Deluxe ->
MXR Carbon Copy ->
MXR Micro Amp


I like the compressor early in the chain and the octave pedal seems to track better after the compressor. I put the compressor after the VT just because it keeps the levels from getting too hot if I turn up the drive on it.

OK, another comp at the beginning of the chain. I messed around with the fuzz/octave/envelope/chorus positions a lot, but think I always had the comp and boost at the end of the chain. Need to try this.

 

[lowdown_billy]

Good luck with your hunt, hope I've helped!

Very much so. Thanks!

 

[MostlyBass]

I've tried a lot of combinations and definitely the compressor early in the chain. I like the boost at the end to give my overall sound a boost when needed (not often, usually in the chorus section of a few songs).

 

[Definitely]

Here's what I have now:

Bass>
Korg Pitchblack Tuner>
M288 Bass Octave Deluxe>
M84 Bass Fuzz Deluxe>
M82 Bass Envelope Filter>
M134 Stereo Chorus>
M133 MicroAmp Clean Boost>
Radial JDI>>XLR to Board and 1/4 to Amp Main

Bass
Tuner
M82 BEF
M133 Boost
M84 Fuzz
M288 Octave (I'll take it if it doesn't fit )
M134 Chorus
Compressor should always go last (before DI)
DI

 

[lowdown_billy]

I like the boost at the end to give my overall sound a boost when needed (not often, usually in the chorus section of a few songs).

I pretty much do the same thing. I'm not trying to put anything into overdrive, just turn up the volume a bit mostly during breaks and choruses or the big outro finish.

 

[MostlyBass]

Also experiment with the octave pedal before and after the fuzz pedal to see what works best for you....I like my overdrive before my octave.

 

[Addison]

Bass -> Tuner -> Compression -> Boost -> Octave -> Fuzz -> Chorus -> Envelope -> DI

Agreed. Other than the envelope filter placement, this is my signal chain as well.

I started putting my envelope filters and wah effects after my octave and before my fuzz/distortion effects, if only for the simple fact that this is where they typically lie if you're getting distortion from your amplifier, as a guitarist would.

Also... when my EF was after fuzz/distortion, I found it very hard to adjust the sensitivity so it would sound OK with the distortion on and off... it always seemed like distortion would send it over the edge and when it was clean, it was never sensitive enough.

EDIT: I also put my boost after my octave and EF, as it can mess with the sensitivities on those... and I use it BEFORE my fuzz/distortion as it can help those effects.

 

[Definitely]

Logically the compressor should go last, as it will even out volume spikes or drops created by the rest of the chain, no?

 

[Addison]

Logically the compressor should go last, as it will even out volume spikes or drops created by the rest of the chain, no?

It's all personal preference with this stuff, but I like to put mine first to even out the signal going into the effects, as I've found the pedals to respond a little better if they receive a quality and consistent signal.

Also, I have some of my pedals purposely set up to slightly boost my signal, because the tone of that specific effect can sometimes get buried in the mix if it isn't boosted... I wouldn't want the compressor to compromise that.

 

[lowdown_billy]

Logically the compressor should go last, as it will even out volume spikes or drops created by the rest of the chain, no?

My thinking, too, although the alternative school seems to be "send an even tone to your effects." I'm going to give that a try as I'm pretty sure my technique is more spiky/droppy than the interaction of all those MXR pedals.

The idea of using the clean boost as a driver for another effect, rather than as simply as a volume boost at the end of the chain is intriguing, too.

 

[valentine1]

My thinking, too, although the alternative school seems to be "send an even tone to your effects." I'm going to give that a try as I'm pretty sure my technique is more spiky/droppy than the interaction of all those MXR pedals.

The idea of using the clean boost as a driver for another effect, rather than as simply as a volume boost at the end of the chain is intriguing, too.

My pedalboard is pretty small, as I currently only use my compressor and darkglass b7k, but there's a definite difference when switching the two around. I run the compressor into the b7k, and for me this results in a much nicer sound. The way I think about it is that my dynamics get compressed going into the b7k which does its magic, opening it back up just a tiny bit. Other pedals do wondrous things to wavelength, so putting a compressor last seems to me, to squish both the dynamics of your playing as well as the effect dynamics of the pedal. Make sense? Sorry if it doesn't. You won't get massive volume spikes by having a compressor first, that's for sure.

edit: unless you're using crazy effects like ringmods or something that i have no experience with!

 

[Darkglass]

My pedalboard is pretty small, as I currently only use my compressor and darkglass b7k, but there's a definite difference when switching the two around. I run the compressor into the b7k, and for me this results in a much nicer sound. The way I think about it is that my dynamics get compressed going into the b7k which does its magic, opening it back up just a tiny bit. Other pedals do wondrous things to wavelength, so putting a compressor last seems to me, to squish both the dynamics of your playing as well as the effect dynamics of the pedal. Make sense? Sorry if it doesn't. You won't get massive volume spikes by having a compressor first, that's for sure.

edit: unless you're using crazy effects like ringmods or something that i have no experience with!

Hi! That makes a lot if sense, a lot of bassists including myself like to compress before the Microtubes. The reason being that is very dynamic sensitive.
A bit d compression can help get a more even amount of overdrive regardless of the struck intensity .
I play full wack most of the time though .

Regards!

Doug.