Your amp is probably enough

[Not_Shane]

I think everyone is giving their solicited opinions, and OP is as always welcome to toss them aside and do their own thing, by all means. What do a bunch of experienced bass players know, anyway?

by "solicited opinions" do you mean borderline bullying this guy for his post? i see a lot of "unhelpful" comments...
OP's original post basically says "your amp is probably fine, don't sweat it new guy." It also says of course you'd sound better if you had a louder amp, and already clarified its a case by case basis.
Where do the "solicited opinions" fit here?
you assume OP is not an experienced bass player?
confused as to what this comment is trying to say besides "OP doesn't know what he's talking about but I do"

 

[Jared Houseman]

I think everyone is giving their solicited opinions, and OP is as always welcome to toss them aside and do their own thing, by all means. What do a bunch of experienced bass players know, anyway?

I've been gigging for a decade, have a couple artist endorsements, and play music for a significant portion of my income. I have "pro level" gear and have bought and sold plenty of amps and cabs.

I think the community here is a great place to learn from and was especially helpful to me when I first started playing. I'm just trying to contribute a perspective you see less often here on Talkbass.


Of course my sampling was biased. I just though it was interesting information to contribute to this thread

 

[Relayer71]

50 years ago amps above 100 watts were rare and cheap watts didn't really become commonplace until the turn of the century as class D came down in price.

I gigged for years with 50 and 75 watt amps and 1-15".

Yeah, but 50 years ago, guitarists were probably also playing lower wattage amps. Likely 15 or 30 watt tube amps. Not, 50 or 100 watt tube amps.

In any case, the OP isn't entirely wrong. But it's all relative. If you're in a band with considerate guitarists and a drummer that isn't non-stop bashing, you can be heard with modest gear. But it depends on the music (and venue). A bassist in a small blues/jazz trio with one guitarist in a small club won't have the same requirements as someone in a thrash metal band with 2 guitarists or a large pop/funk/R & B group with horns playing a larger venue.

 

[MtManiac]

by "solicited opinions" do you mean borderline bullying this guy for his post? i see a lot of "unhelpful" comments...
OP's original post basically says "your amp is probably fine, don't sweat it new guy." It also says of course you'd sound better if you had a louder amp, and already clarified its a case by case basis.
Where do the "solicited opinions" fit here?
you assume OP is not an experienced bass player?
confused as to what this comment is trying to say besides "OP doesn't know what he's talking about but I do"

Are you saying I’ve been borderline bullying OP?

They posted a question, so yeah, they solicited opinions. People gave their opinions based on their experience, or at least that’s what I’ve done. I’ve not said OP is not an experienced bass player - I said people have been giving their opinions as experienced bass players.

I believe you have a problem that’s outside the scope of this thread. If you feel someone is being bullied or harassed, report the offending post to the Mods. *They* and not you are the authorities here. Until then - whoah up a *lot* on the finger pointing and accusations and assumptions.

 

[FSGrind]

Yeah, I largely agree with this. It’s very easy to get caught up with all the fancy new gear but realistically, a lot of tools will get the job done perfectly well. I feel like if you live in an area with a thriving original music scene there are plenty of great acts that don’t really care about what amps they’re playing. It’s more about writing a great song and they make it work with what they’ve got.


thinking about a conversation between two friends at one of my shows. Both getting back from touring in Europe. Backline company couldn’t source a 5150 II. Ended up with a JCM 900 instead. two completely different amps. They laughed about it. “Doesn’t matter, made it work with the 900”.

 

[MtManiac]

I've been gigging for a decade, have a couple artist endorsements, and play music for a significant portion of my income. I have "pro level" gear and have bought and sold plenty of amps and cabs.

I think the community here is a great place to learn from and was especially helpful to me when I first started playing. I'm just trying to contribute a perspective you see less often here on Talkbass.


Of course my sampling was biased. I just though it was interesting information to contribute to this thread

There’s nothing wrong with any of that dude. I also haven’t seen much to be offended by in the responses, but granted I haven’t waded through all 7 pages. You get an opinion, you get to post it, and so does everyone else. Nobody needs to be offended by someone’s opinions on *bass amps* ffs. There are bigger differences of opinion to be offended by - and maybe you’re not offended, but there are for sure some here offended on your behalf, and it’s pretty ridiculous - in my humble opinion, ymmv, etc etc

 

[Tim Skaggs]

When it comes to keeping up with a drummer, talk bass is quick to recommend 500+ watts and 2 12 cabs.

I live in a college town with many alt rock and punk bands. In nearly every band here, the bassist is using some sort 100w 12in combo without pa support. Hearing the bass is rarely an issue. These bands are loud and the drummers play hard.

Even in the largest bands, a Rumble 500 can be heard in the mix with 2 AC30s.

A small combo isn't going to get you the best tone and heft in the mix. And it's not going to compete if you're guitarist are painfully loud. But in most situations, you'll be fine, especially with pa support.

I think the members here way overstate the actual power needed for a gig.

If you have a big rig, your going to sound better in a loud band. If you only have a small amp, go uses it, you'll get by

I can promise you that if you use a 100w 1x12 combo with the drummer I play with, you won’t hear yourself and nobody else in the room will hear you.

 

[_Some Dude]

FWIW - I think one of the reasons 500w has become the default is because it's the default for middle of the road class D.

You go a step down and you're in "might work/might not work/depends" territory. When I don't know someone's exact situation 500w is a relatively safe bet in terms of advice.

 

[Chickenwheels]

I often use a Roland Cube 100. In the right situation it’s perfect. And loud.
My big rig is 300watts into a high quality 410. It’s way more than I ever need.

 

[InhumanResource]

Well I've seemed to ruffle some feathers. Out of curiosity I looked at some social media posts from local bands and venues. Here's a list of what I spotted

Peavy 2x8
2x Rumble 2x10
4x Rumble 112
2x Rumble 115
Ampeg 112
Peavey tnt 115
Mark bass 410
Orange 112
Mark bass 115
Mark bass 210
Peavey 112
Pjb 4x5?
Gk 112

This is by no means a 100% accurate list, just what I was able to easily see. It can be hard to differentiate a 210 from a 115 etc. Some were amps and cabs, most were combos. Bands were about 50% college bands, 50% medium sized touring acts, all different genres

These can all work fine thanks to PA systems. My amp is just teeny little drivers that fit inside my ears for this reason.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Are they doing it. Yep. Is it enough. Nope. I tried to do it for years. You look like a dollop and you sound like a fool.

 

[rtslinger]

Okay chiming in I played my Fender Rumble 100w 1*15 for a couple of years in my 5 member classic rock band with no Pa support and never had an issue being heard or hearing myself in 150-200 room clubs I played in. I play everything from Ozzy, Deep Purple to the Beatles and Eagles it was never an issue until I moved up to larger venues and had to move on to a different more powerful amp, of course years later no stage amp and pedals and IEM is my rig of choice today.

 

[bucephylus]

This just has to be one of the more naive threads I’ve read through on TB in years.

As I posted earlier, for those who are in the TL;DR mode:

This is definitely true for some gigs, but not others.

The needs totally depend on the gigs at hand. And, those needs only partially are related to volume. More commonly, it is important to match the amplification / signal chain to whatever the Band Leader has going on; which comes in all shapes and sizes. Amplification and signal chain are quite most definitely NOT a one size fits all; which you may yet discover if you do a few more gigs.

Carry on.

Again…

There are gigs which are ampless. A 12” combo is NOT wanted on the stage.

There are gigs which require an SVT or equivalent on the backline; and NOT for volume.

There are gigs where a 12” combo is perfect. I’ve got one of those right now.

Punchline: the amp, if any, and signal chain have to fit the gig. Gigs come in all shapes and sizes. Power and volume MIGHT be a consideration; but, focusing on that is pretty sophomoric. Anyone who thinks that is the only consideration needs to get a few more miles down the road.

Anyhow, GL sorting all this out.

 

[_Obra_]

I am in exactly such a situation at the moment as my new Ampeg PF-T50 just arrived. I was in a rehearsal room today to compare it with some Class D amps and Solid State with a lot of cabs, since I was worried about Ampeg PF-T50 volume.

Some of the impressions (speaking from my point of view and my experience from loud rock bands and big stages) are:

-Ampeg Pf-500 Class D (300W/8Ω) is is twice as loud as tube Ampeg Pf-T50 (tube 50W) - (plugged in the same Ampeg PF-410 HLF 8Ω).
-Ampeg Pf-T50 (tube 50W) + Ampeg PF-410 HLF 8Ω is about as loud (maybe 10% louder) as Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo (400W/1x12'' combo).
-Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo (400W/1x12'' combo) is about 30% louder than Ampeg Pf-T50 (tube 50W) + Orange OBC112 (400W/8Ω).
-Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo + Ampeg PF-410 HLF (800W together) is louder than Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo + Orange OBC112 (800W together).
-Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo + Harely Benton 210 cab is louder then Ampeg Pf-T50 + Orange OBC112 + Harely Benton 210.
-Gallien Krueger Fusion 112 Combo + Ampeg PF-410 HLF (800W together) is as loud as Gallien Krueger RB1001-II Solid State + Ampeg PF-410 HLF.

We tried many more combinations (with some more Class D heads, cabs and combos), but the conclusion IMHO regarding power and volume is as follows:

Tube 50W is about as loud as Class D 250-300W. Both are loud enough for most of the small clubs and venues, but it is very likely that in a loud band with loud guitarists it may not be enough (indoors, without FOH)

Class D 400W in a single combo is very similar to the one previously mentioned.

However, Class D 500W is loud enough for almost anything (Fende Rumble 500, GK MB212-II...indoors, without FOH)

Class D 400W combo + ext cab (800W together) or any Class D 800W head + at least two speakers is louder than You'll ever need (indoors or outdors).
Tube 100W + 1x410 or more, is probably louder than You'll ever need (indoors or outdors).
Solid State 750W + 1x410 or more, is also louder than You'll ever need (indoors or outdors).


I apologize for this long text, but I had to write it because I am currently under impressions

 

[DJ Bebop]

When it comes to keeping up with a drummer, talk bass is quick to recommend 500+ watts and 2 12 cabs.

I live in a college town with many alt rock and punk bands. In nearly every band here, the bassist is using some sort 100w 12in combo without pa support. Hearing the bass is rarely an issue. These bands are loud and the drummers play hard.

Even in the largest bands, a Rumble 500 can be heard in the mix with 2 AC30s.

A small combo isn't going to get you the best tone and heft in the mix. And it's not going to compete if you're guitarist are painfully loud. But in most situations, you'll be fine, especially with pa support.

I think the members here way overstate the actual power needed for a gig.

If you have a big rig, your going to sound better in a loud band. If you only have a small amp, go uses it, you'll get by

I agree with this if you are playing with people that understand not to drown out the quietest element of the band, no matter who or what that is. It can work, I've done it.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

I have noticed in my live engineering work that a lot of bassist are carrying small, low powered rigs. More than ever, in fact. I also notice that there are more players treating the bass like it is a guitar (I'm guilty of this as well, but of course this depends on the needs of the group a lot. I do see it sadly being exercised in inappropriate scenarios where a nice bass line would serve better). There is way more expectation and trust, or perhaps indifference to live sound. We have incredibly powerful, small, affordable P.A. Systems these days, so it is more common to have that carry the weight. One thing for sure, these people will have healthier backs when they are my age. I wouldn’t trade that feel of those big rigs for anything, if I was young I know I’d still do it, but horses for courses. As long as it serves the music….

 

[DwaynieAD]

Love watching the goalposts move

 

[DaveParker39]

Man, it really depends on the room.

 

[Not_Shane]

Are you saying I’ve been borderline bullying OP?

They posted a question, so yeah, they solicited opinions. People gave their opinions based on their experience, or at least that’s what I’ve done. I’ve not said OP is not an experienced bass player - I said people have been giving their opinions as experienced bass players.

I believe you have a problem that’s outside the scope of this thread. If you feel someone is being bullied or harassed, report the offending post to the Mods. *They* and not you are the authorities here. Until then - whoah up a *lot* on the finger pointing and accusations and assumptions.

seems you have a guilty conscience. I said "I see a lot of posts" never did I say YOU were bullying. you responded to my original post - i responded to yours.
At the end of the day, yes, your last comment and remarks were snarky at best - definitely helping here...
Then I asked what you meant by the "experienced bass players" comment, because it sounded like an insult, even OP commented on what you said.

So, if you think i was talking about you, maybe that's because you were borderline bullying,
If you don't think its about you, it probably wasn't.

Again, i never pointed fingers - i said "im seeing a lot of"

You are the one defending yourself from no one at this point.

And, to say, "you aren't the authorities, report the person if you feel that way." is very Karen of you.
Are we not allowed to call each other out on mean comments and talk it out? do we go straight to call the cops this guy is mean?

My original comment was on this post in general, stating what i was seeing.
You took to the defensive for an unknown reason, and now are arguing that I am pointing fingers.

OK...

 

[fdeck]

I live in a college town, and my kids are in college, both musicians. There's huge variation in the conditions of college life, regarding transportation, parking, storage and rehearsal space, venues, affluence, and so forth. Also, most of the kids in college rock bands are probably not preparing for a professional career, and "whatever works" might be their best choice for the venues that they play in.