Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

[Caff]

Hi all, I bought a B3 a year or so ago and are loving it. I use it a lot to record but wasn't using it much in Live stiuations but after reading through Part 1 and Part 2 of these threads and doing testing
with the settings expressed here on TB and I am loving it even more.
I had been using it through my PF-350 and Ashdown ABM 4x10 CAB. I am now going to give the B3/Crown XLS1000 Drivecore a go.
As I live in Australia and our Mains power is 240V buying the Crown in Australia is expensive. Around the $450 -$500 AU $ mark. I can however buy the same unit from the US for $270 + $70 postage,which
equates to a good price drop.
My question is can the Crown bought in the US be powered not only in 110VC mode but also in 240VC ? If not I will have to get the Crown local.

On a side note I will be still using my Ashdown ABM 4x10 cab which is rated 600W @8ohm.
Do you think the Crown XLS1000 that is rated at 700W in 8-ohm Bridge-Mono mode, push my 4x10 cab wattage too hard ? If so I may have to go for another Power Amp model. I won't be buying a new cab anytime soon.

 

[JACink]

It's been along time since I was on Talkbass, and I am trying to catch up on specific threads (this is one of them), however, I haven´t had time to read the whole thread yet, so this question may have already been posted since last time I was here.

I have been using the B3 into a QSC power amp and various combinations of cabs and pa speakers etc. and I love this solution as a loud rig (I practice through a GK112 or the B3 and headphones, when I am just at home in the office). Until now, I have been running Bass>B3>Mixer>DSP(as a Crossover)>Amp>Cabs, but I have a couple of issues regarding portability that I would like to solve.

The QSC amp that I have been using is 110V, so every time I set up the rig, I also have to set up the transformer (which is also a power conditioner). Obviously a 110v to 220v transformer capable of running a QSC at high volumes is rather large, in fact it is 3U high and half the width.

I have also been using the mixer to control the volume, but the smallest mixer I own is a 12 channel, which I use in my home office and would rather not keep moving around. I have more mixers but they are 24 or 48 channels. This is obviously overkill for one channel of bass (although I do get to mix my own monitors )

Now, I have just inherited a Crest CA6, which is of a very similar spec to the QSC (although I do prefer QSC), and this is 220V, so this will fix the transformer issue, and if I can loose the mixer, then I would be able to fit everything in a 4U rack.

I don't know how the B3 would perform directly into the DSP (a BSS Soundweb), and this would leave me without a Vol control. I am thinking of finding a small passive mixer to add between the B3 and the DSP, something like the Rolls SLC 19:

I have never used a non powered mixer before, and have no idea how this would affect the signal (other that letting me cut the volume). Any input you guys can offer?


Thanks in advance.


(BTW, for thos of you that are wondering why I am using a BSS Digital Sound Processor as an over kill crossover, basically it is because I already had a spare one lying around. It actually is pretty cool because it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs, which I can leave ready programmed for different cabs, and using more that 1 power amp at once.)

 

[H2O]

Good day everyone... I'm a new B3 user, before I start playing with new toys I like to collect all the information possible and available, gather it around me and sit to play with the new toy so, this is what I have been doing the whole morning.

Once I finished to collect that information from the Zoom B3 As a Preamp Part1, I got this feeling of being a bit selfish after all the information and knowledge you have share so, I thought: There may be new comers like me, to go 51 pages one by one was a lot and I decided to post here the resume of that Part1.

What I have done is to strictly collect info regarding the treat name from the original treat starter and post from other users but, information that I found interesting, leaving out things that are in the manual or didn't fit what I was looking for. If you find anything that I have skip or past by, feel free to re-edit it and let me know to update it. I'm human and 51 pages were a lot to read.

All the post are marked on Blue followed by the name of the user who wrote it on Red, there is green for the quotes I found to be interesting information and also pictures as they appear with the post.

You can download it from [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (pdf 2.19Mb). Now is time for me to play with the new toy.

I will do a reading later or tomorrow when the girls are sleeping on Part2 and see if there is more info to add.

Big thanks to you all who has share this information for us to collect.

 

[CharlieC]

^^^

Thanks for a great compilation document and thanks to all those who continue to contribute content to this thread.

My hope is that a new, true successor to the B3 will soon rise out of Zoom Japan and find its way over to the USA and other continents.

I have no plans to discontinue use of my B3 and MS-60B any time soon, but we are certainly long-overdue for the next wave of bass product(s) from Zoom. Metal chassis, extended effects support, and all.

Cheers!

 

[G On Bass]

^^^

Thanks for a great compilation document and thanks to all those who continue to contribute content to this thread.

My hope is that a new, true successor to the B3 will soon rise out of Zoom Japan and find its way over to the USA and other continents.

I have no plans to discontinue use of my B3 and MS-60B any time soon, but we are certainly long-overdue for the next wave of bass product(s) from Zoom. Metal chassis, extended effects support, and all.

Cheers!

I tell ya, a B3X or aB5 would be great. But then I'd have to buy 2 as I have gotten used to having 2 B3's now: 1 on the desk, one on the board. I set up all the patches for different songs while practicing, then do a quick USB dump to the one on board and off to the gig I go.

 

[H2O]

@CharlieC: No, no, no.... THANK YOU!! The time I use to collect that info is not a nano-metric fraction of the time you have spare me finding the fine tunes by myself. The B3 is quite intuitive and very user friendly but, still the knowledge shared has allowed me to go straight to what I wanna hear coming out of the box.

 

[H2O]

Today I went very early to my friend's bar, he got a variety of FRFR speakers which was the idea I had in mind to try my new pedalboard. I have to add that all this research I'm doing is because 2 month ago at the gig's door, we parked the track close to the entrance to download the gear, while I was carrying things the police came by and stressed the driver to move the track, nobody noticed my pedalboard and it ended up being driven over by the track. When I opened the bag... Ah well, the only thing I can say is that I don't remember being so disturb. There it went my Samsamp that has served me since the early 90's, my MXR compressor and chorus. Pedals that I had for very, very long time and part of my personality. So, I needed to do a research to get a new setup and believe me, it is scary to jump into new things.

So, as I was saying in the beginning, I went to this bar help my friend to clean up the mess from last night and then I had a few hours to try on place the B3 and a Darkglass B7K preamp. I don't normally use distortion and actually don't like them much either. I few month ago I tested the B7K and I found it to be an amazing preamp so, after the death on my pedalboard I got one myself. Once I was set I started fine tune the sounds I worked yesterday at home with my Yamaha HS50M, damn! it is so very easy to work the sound in situ, it was just smooth, wide, well defined... The trick to use the ZNR the first in the chain was spot on while switching basses. I also noticed that the active FRFR speaker varies a bit but, it was not complicated to tweak the sound back to place. The doubt is crawling around my head is... To just mount and go, should I perhaps buy my own FRFR so not to have to fine tune all the time??

Anyhow all this is way too new for me so, I better just keep playing with the toys until I feel more familiar but, damn it is scary and now I understand many comments about how easy it is to say bye bye to the conventional Amp+cab.

 

[CharlieC]

Acronym of the day:

FRFR = Full range, flat response

Cheers!

 

[ticol07]

Good day everyone... I'm a new B3 user, before I start playing with new toys I like to collect all the information possible and available, gather it around me and sit to play with the new toy so, this is what I have been doing the whole morning.

Once I finished to collect that information from the Zoom B3 As a Preamp Part1, I got this feeling of being a bit selfish after all the information and knowledge you have share so, I thought: There may be new comers like me, to go 51 pages one by one was a lot and I decided to post here the resume of that Part1.

What I have done is to strictly collect info regarding the treat name from the original treat starter and post from other users but, information that I found interesting, leaving out things that are in the manual or didn't fit what I was looking for. If you find anything that I have skip or past by, feel free to re-edit it and let me know to update it. I'm human and 51 pages were a lot to read.

All the post are marked on Blue followed by the name of the user who wrote it on Red, there is green for the quotes I found to be interesting information and also pictures as they appear with the post.

You can download it from [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (pdf 2.19Mb). Now is time for me to play with the new toy.

I will do a reading later or tomorrow when the girls are sleeping on Part2 and see if there is more info to add.

Big thanks to you all who has share this information for us to collect.

Hey, great document !!
This makes me realise how far we went in the discussions regarding the B3

And if you want other interesting informations, you can also follow the threads which are called : Zoom B3 patch ideas and MS-60B patch ideas. It will fill your next weeks

 

[H2O]

Already been there sneaking and I have download all the patches but, give me more time or I'm going to end up in the madhouse

 

[TitaniumRx]

.. continued:

1st test:

Band rehearsal, 9-piece RnB band, EV ZLX-15p as a floor wedge, mode live/monitor, EQ flat, powered by Zoom B3. Sounds very much like as if monitored by my headphone (AKG K-701). Just little colouration. Cool, I 've got sound control back and I'm able to tweak it by the B3. Much more sound control than with my favourite MB 121p combo. Sounds very good in the mix with my band rehearsing.

2nd test:

Outside, small garden party, 60 people, 3-piece Jazz combo, EV ZLX-15p on the floor, mode music/pole, EQ flat, powered by Zoom B3. On 2nd channel kick drum via mic to enhance the beat a bit. We played 3 sets of 50-60mins. The bass was full and round, kick drum was perfectly enhanced. The crowd was dancing and made lots of compliments about the sound (fixed 3 follow up gigs). Great.
Further tests (club, high ceiling, EUB, speech, DB) coming.

So far, so good. The EV ZLX-15p is definetly a keeper. It seems I found a flexible combination B3/ZLX15p. If all tests are fine, I'll order a second ZLX 15p. Stereo on stage ? At least I want to try.

Not only stereo but double power too
When you got the second 15p you gonna be crazy about the awesome sound the stereo FXs makes.The delays,choruses and special the reverbs. You're never play monophonic again,trust me

Even the simple monophonic fx of B3,have some deference between the channels.I see it every time when i connect the B3 in my audio device.The VU meters act deferent when i use both the Left and Right channels.

 

[TheBass]

Not only stereo but double power too
When you got the second 15p you gonna be crazy about the awesome sound the stereo FXs makes.The delays,choruses and special the reverbs. You're never play monophonic again,trust me

Even the simple monophonic fx of B3,have some deference between the channels.I see it every time when i connect the B3 in my audio device.The VU meters act deferent when i use both the Left and Right channels.

I am using the B3 at home with my headphones - I know what you mean. The stereo effects are awesome. But I guess it will be difficult to reproduce them on stage and FoH. Volumewise one ZLX-15p is more than enough as a stage monitor and for most club/bar live events my stage space is very limited (we are a 10piece RnB Band). But I'll stick to my plan ...

 

[andreas_flf]

1. It's been along time since I was on Talkbass, and I am trying to catch up on specific threads (this is one of them), however, I ... snip

snip ...

I don't know how the B3 would perform directly into the DSP (a BSS Soundweb), and this would leave me without a Vol control. I am thinking of finding a small passive mixer to add between the B3 and the DSP, something like the Rolls SLC 19:

I have never used a non powered mixer before, and have no idea how this would affect the signal (other that letting me cut the volume). Any input you guys can offer?


Thanks in advance.

I do not believe you need this ROLLS device. The B3 has a global volume control, which is IMHO all what you need. And the B3 outputs are quite hot, therefore plenty volume to control. But perhaps I misunderstood.

Andreas flf

 

[JACink]

Good day everyone... I'm a new B3 user, before I start playing with new toys I like to collect all the information possible and available, gather it around me and sit to play with the new toy so, this is what I have been doing the whole morning...(snip)

(snip)... I will do a reading later or tomorrow when the girls are sleeping on Part2 and see if there is more info to add.

Big thanks to you all who has share this information for us to collect.

Thank you very much for this, it will make it a lot easier to catch up on what I missed!

I do not believe you need this ROLLS device. The B3 has a global volume control, which is IMHO all what you need. And the B3 outputs are quite hot, therefore plenty volume to control. But perhaps I misunderstood.

Andreas flf

I will check the thread (and the doc posted by H2O), but I don't remember any quick way of adjusting volume via the B3. Also wouldn't this affect the Di out to FOH?

 

[TitaniumRx]

Thank you very much for this, it will make it a lot easier to catch up on what I missed!



I will check the thread (and the doc posted by H2O), but I don't remember any quick way of adjusting volume via the B3. Also wouldn't this affect the Di out to FOH?

For individual patch volume control press the total button,first screen(left by default),first knob(left) Level 0-120.For global volume press the global button,first screen (left by default),first knob(left) Level 0-120.For unity level,without any fx enable the 100 is the unity level,for both the patch or global volumes.
And ofc the levels react to output signals,DI or lines out.

 

[H2O]

Thank you very much for this, it will make it a lot easier to catch up on what I missed!

De nada hombre

These last days I haven't been playing with effects, I'm focusing to find the right balance with the levels. There is two approaches to it which is making it kind of hard due the Global level, Total level and a level for each stomp-box. Since I'm still getting to know the B3, I did a back up with the application and clear all the patches, then I made 12 new patches exclusively for amps simulations with one type of amp each and only that effect on. At this point I started to notice the controversial task to get right the levels trying the approach of having the Global level on 60 and patch level to 100, then the opposite.

Something to think about is the use you want to give to the B3 and here the two approaches. Are you going to use it as an amp simulation + effects or are you going to use it as a stomp-box(Meaning effects only)? but, if its both there is the straggle. I will explain my chain, Buffer(I have over 20m from my pedals to the mix board in one of the places I play), Tuner/mute, Nose looper(It is there to bypass the B3 for experimental purposes with the levels), Zoom b3 and Darkglass B7K Preamp.

Approach 1 (Amp simulator): I have found the most good sounding here comes with CharlieC shared experience, Global level to 60 and patch level to 100 but, if in any given moment you want to run only effects, the level issue comes. When I bypass all the 3 effects on the B3 with this approach and then compare levels by bypassing the B3 with the Nose looper, it is quite obvious the level differences. if I adjust the Global level to 100 and patch level to 100 there is not differences while doing this but, when you turn the amp simulation on, you need to set the level of that effect quite low and the sound quality for that amp simulation is lost. The solution I have found for this is, with the Global level to 100 I have the ZNR always on as the effect that compensates the volume, adjust the Patch level down and get back the level of the amp simulation up, then I bypass the amp simulation(Leaving the ZNR on) and check the levels, once more I bypass the B3 with the Nose looper and check again, all good. The problem... you are sacrificing 1 spot to have that ZNR on at all times.

Approach 2 (Stomp-box): Quite the same problem here but, way more manageable still, having one effect always on makes this job easier again sacrificing that 1 spot or not, all depending if you for example like to run a compressor at all times.

I'm quite new with the B3 and the only thing I can certainly say as a whole truth is that, this box runs quite hot and the level issue can be a problem if you want or like to bypass all effects to run just from a pre-amp (In my case B7K) if you are using the B3 as your always on Pre-amp and DI this job becomes quite easy.

I'll keep experimenting since it is the only way to learn your needs.

 

[TheBass]

If you need volume control you might want to use an expression pedal for that. B3s factory preset for expression pedal is input volume for all patches.

 

[andreas_flf]

If you need volume control you might want to use an expression pedal for that. B3s factory preset for expression pedal is input volume for all patches.

But you can of course set that to be different in a patch specific manner.

 

[andreas_flf]

De nada hombre

These last days I haven't been playing with effects, I'm focusing to find the right balance with the levels. There is two approaches to it which is making it kind of hard due the Global level, Total level and a level for each stomp-box. Since I'm still getting to know the B3, I did a back up with the application and clear all the patches, then I made 12 new patches exclusively for amps simulations with one type of amp each and only that effect on. At this point I started to notice the controversial task to get right the levels trying the approach of having the Global level on 60 and patch level to 100, then the opposite.

Something to think about is the use you want to give to the B3 and here the two approaches. Are you going to use it as an amp simulation + effects or are you going to use it as a stomp-box(Meaning effects only)? but, if its both there is the straggle. I will explain my chain, Buffer(I have over 20m from my pedals to the mix board in one of the places I play), Tuner/mute, Nose looper(It is there to bypass the B3 for experimental purposes with the levels), Zoom b3 and Darkglass B7K Preamp.

Approach 1 (Amp simulator): I have found the most good sounding here comes with CharlieC shared experience, Global level to 60 and patch level to 100 but, if in any given moment you want to run only effects, the level issue comes. When I bypass all the 3 effects on the B3 with this approach and then compare levels by bypassing the B3 with the Nose looper, it is quite obvious the level differences. if I adjust the Global level to 100 and patch level to 100 there is not differences while doing this but, when you turn the amp simulation on, you need to set the level of that effect quite low and the sound quality for that amp simulation is lost. The solution I have found for this is, with the Global level to 100 I have the ZNR always on as the effect that compensates the volume, adjust the Patch level down and get back the level of the amp simulation up, then I bypass the amp simulation(Leaving the ZNR on) and check the levels, once more I bypass the B3 with the Nose looper and check again, all good. The problem... you are sacrificing 1 spot to have that ZNR on at all times.

Approach 2 (Stomp-box): Quite the same problem here but, way more manageable still, having one effect always on makes this job easier again sacrificing that 1 spot or not, all depending if you for example like to run a compressor at all times.

I'm quite new with the B3 and the only thing I can certainly say as a whole truth is that, this box runs quite hot and the level issue can be a problem if you want or like to bypass all effects to run just from a pre-amp (In my case B7K) if you are using the B3 as your always on Pre-amp and DI this job becomes quite easy.

I'll keep experimenting since it is the only way to learn your needs.

We have discussed these issues previously, I believe in part I, already to some length. There are indeed so many possibilities, one can argue almost too many. Thus I was only able to make somehow my peace with this issue by adjusting everything to unity. E.g. If you have a patch with 3 effects, I have made sure every individual effect in the signal chain was set at unity. That offers the advantage that you can activate them in any combination and you do not get unwanted level changes, which easily dominate everything else BTW.

I have accomplished this by using a bypass switch, B3 in the loop or directly going to an amp with headphones, your ears being the final judge. I use my Mac as amp, since I can there also use a large level meter (e.g. Bias Peak) and can therefore efficiently find the wanted level roughly. For the final tweaking I then use my ears while playing my bass. [*]

Such a set of unity patches where every element of every patch is level adjusted at unity offers not only lots of flexibility, but also reveals the true versatility and power of the B3. Only then can you hear the actual differences among effects, at least this was my experience. If you compare with the factory presets, they are awful in this respect (at least, ;-) ), since you hear more the level difference than anything else if you go from one patch to the next.

Hope this helps you somehow or at least gives you some ideas how to progress in your current endeavour.

Enjoy!

Andreas flf

P.S.: [*] BTW I am considering of further improving on this methodology by recording some bass licks and then use these while tweaking my patches instead of playing the bass in real time, avoiding the going back and forth between playing and turning knobs and pushing stomp switches (with my hands) having the B3 on the table beside the Mac.

 

[H2O]

Hey andreas_flf, indeed its been discussed before, I was mostly writing my thoughts.... I also have read you mentioning exactly what you are repeating now and I definitely going to use your approach, unity level and being my ears the final judge, since I'm not a heavy effect user I believe this is how it'd work for me but, you have to agree with me... What a trip to get there, so many options and I really need to make peace with this issue to start to prepare the patches for live use.

Btw, I have been trying a level meter but, how do you deal with the loudness while using it? I tried with the headphones the other night and the next morning when I could play loud it was a total mess

You are helping a lot and very nice tip, recording some licks and take the patches tuning like a mix is going to make it a lot easier.

Thanks!