Zoom B3 As Preamp

[Rocksolid]

Its impressively loud, thumpy, woolly, crunchy, dial in what ever you want.



I will say though, my yamaha msr400 is not far behind the K12, at just over half the price.

 

[CharlieC]

Its impressively loud, thumpy, woolly, crunchy, dial in what ever you want.

View attachment 355998

I will say though, my yamaha msr400 is not far behind the K12, at just over half the price.

Enjoy, Rocksolid!

Like you, I, too, am finding that I could get by with any of the new crop of 12" actives, like the MSR400, and that would also leave me with enough funds for a case of Aussie Shiraz!

Cheers!

 

[Rocksolid]

Enjoy, Rocksolid!

Like you, I, too, am finding that I could get by with any of the new crop of 12" actives, like the MSR400, and that would also leave me with enough funds for a case of Aussie Shiraz!

Cheers!

A man after my own heart!!! My parents have retired to the Clare Valley, where my favorite Shiraz comes from! If you ever need some recommendations just let me know!

 

[Rocksolid]

Just did some comparisons between my Yamaha MSR400 (12/horn, front ported) and the QSC K12. I dont want to blow anything up, but I did want to understand which is louder, the tonal differences etc.

The MSR400 seems to carry more bottom end than the K12, it also seems a little brighter (not ideal) but the MSR400 has both bass and treble control on the back which makes it pretty easy to dial Bass and Highs in.

I'm trying to get my head around the Gain controls on the back

K12 0db is at 12 o'clock, and at maximum there is +10db of Gain
MSR400 0db is at 9 o'clock, +4db at 12 oclock, and a massive +36db of Gain at maximum. Anything above 2 o'clock is unusable in my opinion as it gets too noisy.

With both set at 0dB the K12 is noticeably louder. If I set the MSR400 to 12 o'clock to my ears it is just louder, but there is more bottom end.

I have left the tone controls on the MSR400 flat, and I haven't messed with the deep switch etc on the K12 at this stage

The power ratings of them are:

K12 LF: 500w HF:500w
MSR400 LF: 225w HF:75w

This is a massive difference between the 2 boxes considering I don't think there is much between them both.

If anyone has any opinions, or experience with this I'd love to here your thoughts.

 

[andreas_flf]

Nice setup, Andreas!

I am curious, how is the Amp Selector pedal used in this arrangement?

Cheers!

Here the wiring diagram

Used devices:

1. Line 6 Relay G30 wireless to connect my bass
   
2. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] to adjust e-cello volume level and spectrum
   
3. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] used in 2 in -> 1 out select mode to switch between my two instruments (works in the middle of a song, the red (e-cello) and green (bass) LEDs show me nicely which instrument I have currently selected)
   
4. and of course the B3 with Invalid Link Removed featuring a stomp bar for patch select up/down and rhythm play/stop plus optional tap tempo foot pedal

The pedal board is a Warwick RB23110 Pedal Board with external power. Unfortunately it delivers insufficient power (400 mA max) to also feed the B3. If I connect all devices including the B3 it works first fine. However, about 5 minutes later the power goes unfortunately off for the entire board. So I use additionally a small Apple USB power supply (5W) to power the B3.

Any cables typically unplugged during transport are shown in red. Within the pedal board all connections are permanent and nothing needs to be changed with the wiring except for a connection from the B3's XLR output to FOH (used of course in post mode). To make this possible, i.e. the easy plug in of the e-cello and flexible output connections to the amp (and/or FOH), I use the two internal pedal board loop connections (shown in blue, top right).

With a Invalid Link Removed instead of the B3 I could all fit onto a Nano pedaltrain board, something I am considering for size and weight. This would mean to have underneath the wireless G30 receiver and a T-REX FUELTANK JUNIOR power supply (they should both fit fine). However, then I would have no XLR output (one big advantage of the B3 solution) unless I would add after the MS-60B a 4th device, i.e. a DI box such as the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] on the top of the nano (albeit all this would become quite expensive). I also don't know whether the FUELTANK JUNIOR would be sufficient to power all devices, since it delivers only a max of 120 mA at each of its 5 outlets, which is not good enough for the MS-60B Invalid Link Removed: They state that 500mA would be needed. But I very much doubt this, since the MS-60B can also be run by only 2 AA batteries. Perhaps it works and 120 mA suffice. To really know one would need to give it a try, but at the moment I do neither own a MS-60B nor a FUELTANK JUNIOR. Any comments on that idea would therefore be most welcome!? CharlieC?

Cheers

 

[Rocksolid]

Andreas,

I purchased one of these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Biyang-P...636?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c6bd82dcc

It has 2 1000mA outputs, which I was going to use for my MS-60B and X2 XDS Plus wireless. But they are quite big, and heavy, and probably not great for your application. I purchased it intending to put my wireless directly on top of it, on my board as they are almost te identical size.

While waiting for it to arrive, I ended up buying a 2000mA one spot (wall wart) and soldering up a custom Daisychain to power all my pedals, just to see how it went. To my surprise, it all worked perfectly, and was quiet.

I still might install the Biyang power supply, but I haven't yet.

This might be the solution to your under powering issues. I looked pretty hard for a Power brick that does 500mA per outlet, and there aren't too many around.

Cheers

 

[CharlieC]

^^^

Thanks, Andreas!

With the exceptional level of detail provided above, I completely understand your rig and commend you on both design and execution. Well done!

The only slight improvement that comes to my mind would be the use of a single, capable power supply, such as the Godlyke Power-All PA-9 or a 1-SPOT, of which I use the former with great success.

Cheers!

 

[andreas_flf]

^^^

Thanks, Andreas!

With the exceptional level of detail provided above, I completely understand your rig and commend you on both design and execution. Well done!

The only slight improvement that comes to my mind would be the use of a single, capable power supply, such as the Godlyke Power-All PA-9 or a 1-SPOT, of which I use the former with great success.

Cheers!

Andreas,

I purchased one of these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Biyang-P...636?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c6bd82dcc

It has 2 1000mA outputs, which I was going to use for my MS-60B and X2 XDS Plus wireless. But they are quite big, and heavy, and probably not great for your application. I purchased it intending to put my wireless directly on top of it, on my board as they are almost te identical size.

While waiting for it to arrive, I ended up buying a 2000mA one spot (wall wart) and soldering up a custom Daisychain to power all my pedals, just to see how it went. To my surprise, it all worked perfectly, and was quiet.

I still might install the Biyang power supply, but I haven't yet.

This might be the solution to your under powering issues. I looked pretty hard for a Power brick that does 500mA per outlet, and there aren't too many around.

Cheers

Thanks CharlieC and RockSolid for the help and info. I agree, a common power source would be favorable. However, I want to have one that works on all continents. E.g. the Power All web site says nothing on the topic of compatibility with 110-240 V main power. I know only of the 1 SPOT that it should work everywhere, the latter being my choice with my European/Canadian ties. Maybe that's not only cheap, but also versatile and you guys tell me it should work fine, right?

I nevertheless wonder how much juice the MS-60B really needs. Since the B3 seems to work with less than 500 mA (my pedalboard delivers ~400 mA in total) and I can power the B3 together with the AB switch fine, my guess is that the MS-60B needs even less current. Perhaps even 120 mA would do? Anyone knows?

Cheers, Andreas

 

[CharlieC]

Thanks CharlieC and RockSolid for the help and info. I agree, a common power source would be favorable. However, I want to have one that works on all continents. E.g. the Power All web site says nothing on the topic of compatibility with 110-240 V main power. I know only of the 1 SPOT that it should work everywhere, the latter being my choice with my European/Canadian ties. Maybe that's not only cheap, but also versatile and you guys tell me it should work fine, right?

I nevertheless wonder how much juice the MS-60B really needs. Since the B3 seems to work with less than 500 mA (my pedalboard delivers ~400 mA in total) and I can power the B3 together with the AB switch fine, my guess is that the MS-60B needs even less current. Perhaps even 120 mA would do? Anyone knows?

Cheers, Andreas

According to [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] on their web site, the PA-9 automatically converts any input voltage to 9 VDC, allowing it to be used anywhere around the world.

At home, I have used a 200mA power supply on both the B3 and MS-60B (separately) without issue, but with the Godlyke PA-9's 2000mA I no longer worry about any potential effects of insufficient power.

Cheers!

 

[andreas_flf]

According to [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] on their web site, the PA-9 automatically converts any input voltage to 9 VDC, allowing it to be used anywhere around the world.

At home, I have used a 200mA power supply on both the B3 and MS-60B (separately) without issue, but with the Godlyke PA-9's 2000mA I no longer worry about any potential effects of insufficient power.

Cheers!

Many thanks, CharlieC. As usual, most helpful!

Cheers!

 

[Rocksolid]

Took the QSC K12 to a loud rehearsal, with a Loud Drummer, in a room that I normally struggle to get a good sound in. The K12 was killer. Everyone was surprised.

I said in an earlier post that I thought my Yamaha MSR400 wasn't that far behind the K12 and it is good, but in a bigger room when a bit more Girth to your sound is required the K12 really shines.

Just wanted to share!

 

[Johno Dunn]

Took the QSC K12 to a loud rehearsal, with a Loud Drummer, in a room that I normally struggle to get a good sound in. The K12 was killer. Everyone was surprised.

I said in an earlier post that I thought my Yamaha MSR400 wasn't that far behind the K12 and it is good, but in a bigger room when a bit more Girth to your sound is required the K12 really shines.

Just wanted to share!

You Sir, are not helping my GAS!

Maybe I should try Beano!

J!

 

[Rocksolid]

Tell me about it. I've got too many cabs as it is, if i want a K12 I'm going to have to sell something. Not an easy decision!

Beano?

 

[Johno Dunn]

Tell me about it. I've got too many cabs as it is, if i want a K12 I'm going to have to sell something. Not an easy decision!

Beano?

Beano is an enzyme-based dietary supplement that is used to reduce gas in the digestive tract, thereby improving digestion and reducing bloating, discomfort, and flatulence caused by gas. It contains the enzyme alpha-galactosidase that breaks down oligosaccharides such as raffinose. It was introduced as a liquid, but that has been discontinued and it is now available only as tablets and strawberry-flavored "Meltaways."

 

[Rocksolid]

Lol got it! Clearly not a product we have in Australia! If we do have it, it must be called something else!

 

[mjmeche]

Lol got it! Clearly not a product we have in Australia! If we do have it, it must be called something else!

You guys don't get gas. Need to move there!

 

[Johno Dunn]

You guys don't get gas. Need to move there!

They do, their just real men and "let fly"!

 

[Rocksolid]

It's just a regular bum trumpet symphony down here!

 

[Johno Dunn]

It's just a regular bum trumpet symphony down here!

I'm movin'!

 

[CharlieC]

The Bass BB is my new favorite effect and will turn the SVT amp model into a fire-breathing demon.

The settings I use simply impart a bit of tube growl without further coloring the original bass signal. Place it in front of the SVT and welcome to Detroit Rock City.

Cheers!