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Zoom B3 As Preamp

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Still scratching my head at the fact the the speaker sim on the VT bass makes the tone brighter, but as you dial in the cab mix on the B3 the highs roll off.... Hmmm :confused:

Are you really not comparing oranges with apples? I mean, is the VT Bass cab emulation emulating the same cabs as you are comparing to on the B3? I expect depending on the kind of emulation quite different results in terms of frequency spectrum. A speaker with a large diameter tends in general to be less responsive for the high end than a smaller one etc. Isn't it?
 
Apples and oranges to a degree, yes. Considering the vt bass is supposedly emulating a tweeterless ampeg cab, and a lot of the B3 emulations have tweeters yet they still roll of the highs, it is still an interesting comparison regardless.

I was more posting this because I find it funny more than anything else. I actually think the B3 emulations are far more accurate.
 
Full report, please?!?

Will do! I think it will be great. I will be using it with my Pedal Board Which is VT bass deluxe and MS-60B among other things It will be used with a B3 eventually, but I haven't really sat down on put all my patched together yet.

I can see the K12 getting a heap of use over the Christmas season. It looks like I need more surgery on my hand (mountain bike crash) so the bigger cabs will be staying at home.
 
Excellent thread - the info on the mix setting early on was invaluable.

I'm borrowing a B3 for live work at the moment. I've always just gone bass to DI to PA (with IEMs) so the amp modelling was a revelation. One thing I found interesting was that the SVT sounded odd through headphones, with the low notes almost sounding like they were subtly oscillating pitch. Through the house speakers and subs though it really came alive and went back to being my number one choice. I guess it's the age old problem of headphone settings not being what you'll hear live.
 
...I'm borrowing a B3 for live work at the moment.

...the SVT sounded odd through headphones...

Through the house speakers and subs though it really came alive and went back to being my number one choice. I guess it's the age old problem of headphone settings not being what you'll hear live.
I experienced this Tuesday night, at a conference gig.

Bad Speakon cable meant that I couldn't use my G-K rig, so I dialled up the SVT on my MS-60B at the last minute.

Felt and sounded off in my IEM's without the normal support from my amp, but apparently sounded quite good at FOH...
 
I experienced this Tuesday night, at a conference gig.

Bad Speakon cable meant that I couldn't use my G-K rig, so I dialled up the SVT on my MS-60B at the last minute.

Felt and sounded off in my IEM's without the normal support from my amp, but apparently sounded quite good at FOH...

It's weird. I had it again last night, where I was struggling to distinguish pitch when playing lower notes on my own. With the house speakers up and the rest of the band playing it made sense. I found that certain amp models seem to highlight this more than others - the more 'hi-fi' models tend to be better and I think it may be related to the mids. that's not necessarily an issue with the B3, probably just with my ears!
 
It's weird. I had it again last night, where I was struggling to distinguish pitch when playing lower notes on my own. With the house speakers up and the rest of the band playing it made sense. I found that certain amp models seem to highlight this more than others - the more 'hi-fi' models tend to be better and I think it may be related to the mids.
I call that "music store syndrome", where a scooped, bass-boosted tone sounds great solo'd, but not so hot in a band mix. It's all about the mids, for live work.

When I reviewed my hurriedly-set SVT patch after the gig, I found that it was a little too "blurry". I get the same thing if I crank up the bass on my G-K rig.

Maybe too much bass boost on the SVT patch? Or try a different cab model? Or lower the Mix control a little to get more of your dry sound?
 
Here's a tip for those who can't afford a k12, but really want to go with a flat response/ full range monitor.

A keyboard amp will get you pretty close on a much lower budget. You can pick used ones up fairly inexpensively too.
 
Full report, please?!?

Fantastic! Clear, easily heard in the mix. Highs aren't as glassy as other powered cabs can be. I find the Mackie srm450 cabs horrid when used like this. It was a perfect gig to use it at, as it was a horrid load in with narrow stairs.

Realistically i could do 90% of my gigs with this cab. Which is a horrid thought with an Eden 610 and Berg NV412 at home.

A lot of bass cabs project so far out and you get constant grief from the sound tech about it. The K12 tilted back didn't project out that far and it points at your head. It works a treat.
 
I have gone through about 30 pages of this thread so far and have used my B3 routing to my on stage power amp and to FOH with XLR out. I have to say that it's been one of the bass setups that I've ever used, our sound guy loves it.

Being somewhat of a noob, I have a question about patch organization. I am using Edit & Share to backup my changes that I've made. The question I have is a question of patch balance and how others are managing the B3. If I inadvertently land on hintofcliff after being on Jaco Jazz (two random patches I pulled from memory) there is a HUGE disparity in volumes. Also, there is a huge disparity in volume from a dry sound (all three effects/amps turned off) and an effected sound. In my mind, I want the dry sound to be close to the same volume as the effected sound, so I don't cause major problems with the mix and or damage to equipment or ear drums by accidently hitting a patch that is too hot. Does anyone else notice that the dry sound and the effected sounds have this huge disparity? Any ideas on how to manage that on a global level without having to audition every sound and change the settings?

Thanks for a great thread, you all are pretty amazing with your knowledge of this great little tool.

Mike
 
I have a zoom MS60b which is sort of like a smaller version of the B3 without the DI out. It's like a third of the B3 without as many effects as the B3. Anyway, to my knowledge, the only way I can achieve unity gain is if I go in and set each parameter on each individual effect. Which I've had to do because the 60b had the same issue, massive anoints of level/volume at the factory setting. It would be nice to have a master volume setting on both pedals. But to my knowledge, I don't think there is.
 
Hey thanks Gregmon79...that is a bummer. I wonder, some of you who are more familiar with the B3, if you were to get a brand new one today and wanted to get it gig-ready...what would you do to it?
 
There is of course a global volume setting affecting all patches at once. However, remember, this does not - and actually should not - resolve your issue. Why?

The global menu does allow you to set a global volume level, the so-called master level. Yet, this does - as you would expect from a global setting – make all patches at the same time louder or less loud. Thus individual volume differences among patches are of course retained, since the global level affects all patches in the same way. Only if there would be a global edit command to change all volume settings of all patches to the very same volume at once could you get rid of the level differences among the patches. I do not know of such a command in the Edit & Share software, BTW the only place where I could imagine such a command could be available for currently selected patches. Moreover, volume perception may differ from effect to effect, meaning, that a mechanical setting to the very same level may not really accomplish what you are looking for and you would need to adjust the volume of each patch anyway. But I admit, having such a command available might be useful nevertheless (at least for the B3, since it is the only one that can be edited via software running on the PC).

Unfortunately, as a consequence you need to adjust volume levels of all patches individually. I know of no other technique. This is typically done in the so-called Total menu, where you can set the Patch level. But the level of an individual patch as actually heard by you does not only depend on the total level, i.e. the patch level. It also depends on the level each effect of the 3 (B3) or 4 (MS-B60) has and whether that particular effect is on or off within your patch. To make sure levels are set to a useful value, I adjusted the level of every effect in any patch individually. For some this means tweaking gain or output level of an amp simulation or adjusting the effect/dry signal ratio. For some patches it may already be fine to only tweak the overall output level or the balance parameter of the patch in the total menu. For others it is the gains or output levels or the balance of individual components of the patch that need to be adjusted first. Unfortunately, with such flexible and powerful devices as the B3 there are many parameters that can affect the volume you hear in the end! The downside of the coin if you will.

I have adjusted the volume for all my patches (including all their 3 effects) I regularly use individually. I connected the B3 to my computer, having plugged in one of my basses and listening through headphones. And then going through all patches, one by one, tweaking the volume of every effect within the patch again individually, one by one, till all levels are the same, i.e. roughly at unity. On the computer I used some software (e.g. Bias Peak) showing me a large level meter, again as a reference point or starting point, respectively, for the actual tweaking. As a result I have the freedom to engage effects of a given patch in any combination, without altering the volume dramatically. I have my total volume of any patch basically at 100 and the master volume of my B3 set to 100 as a starting point. Then I tweak further, depending on balance and level of each effect. All these settings are AFAIK unavoidable, since your ears are the decisive final judge of really having comparable output levels. Level perception is partly a psychological phenomenon where mere dB values are not good enough to tell the entire story and very final level adjustments may have to be made on actual stage with amp (or FOH) and actual instruments playing.

I hope these explanations help to better understand what a B3 (or MS-60B) does and how to adjust the volume settings for full freedom to switch on the fly effects on and off of the current patch and/or to advance from one patch to the next without getting too big differences in the volume.

Cheers,
Andreas flf
 
andreas, building on your excellent info, does changing a bass affect the volume levels of the different patches? So, say you set up the B3 for an active 5-string MTD and then in the middle of a set need to change to a passive 4-string Fender jazz, are there going to be volume differences/problems?

Thanks,
Allen
 
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