Double Bass 1/4 Size upright, any fullsize people playing them?

[damonsmith]

I would not agree to very much transfer. Each instrument needs to be practiced on it's own. Varying string length affects positions and intonation. Varying string length also change the attack and therefore the time has to be adjusted. It isn't impossible but each little thing needs to be address on it's own.

 

[Tom Lane]

I would not agree to very much transfer. Each instrument needs to be practiced on it's own. Varying string length affects positions and intonation. Varying string length also change the attack and therefore the time has to be adjusted. It isn't impossible but each little thing needs to be address on it's own.

I agree. That's been my experience and of a few other very developed players I know who tried to cross over. I do know some great doublers but they've been on both instruments for 40 years, and they're the exception, IME.

 

[GretschWretch]

Not disagreeing. But people who regularly play instruments of varying mensures over time develop muscle memory which usually kicks in within a few bars. And attack and note sustain can vary even on instruments of the same mensure.

Apparently I did not make myself clear in my previous post RE jazz soloing. What I meant was that if a person knows how to craft a competent jazz solo, s/he should be able to transfer that solo to any bass s/he picks up. It's a cerebral skill, not a mechanical one.

 

[Tom Lane]

Not disagreeing. But people who regularly play instruments of varying mensures over time develop muscle memory which usually kicks in within a few bars. And attack and note sustain can vary even on instruments of the same mensure.

Apparently I did not make myself clear in my previous post RE jazz soloing. What I meant was that if a person knows how to craft a competent jazz solo, s/he should be able to transfer that solo to any bass s/he picks up. It's a cerebral skill, not a mechanical one.

As with many TB discussions, we haven't defined our terms and so we can both be correct. I'll confirm with you that I can play basses with different mensures with a 30 minute practice with better than average intonation, but... IMO, I cannot play those other basses nearly as well as my 3/4. Victor Wooten, John Patitucci, Christian McBride, and Marcus Miller have nothing to fear when I pick up a fretless bass guitar because about ALL I get right is time and intonation, and there's several more dimensions to that instrument that I don't even begin to touch. To Damon's point, they ARE different.

Different mensure instruments for practice - completely down with that. Different mensure instruments for the occasional well-prepped tune, okay. More than one mensure for "totally bringing it like Rufus"... not even.

 

[GretschWretch]

As with many TB discussions, we haven't defined our terms and so we can both be correct. I'll confirm with you that I can play basses with different mensures with a 30 minute practice with better than average intonation, but... IMO, I cannot play those other basses nearly as well as my 3/4. Victor Wooten, John Patitucci, Christian McBride, and Marcus Miller have nothing to fear when I pick up a fretless bass guitar because about ALL I get right is time and intonation, and there's several more dimensions to that instrument that I don't even begin to touch. To Damon's point, they ARE different.

Different mensure instruments for practice - completely down with that. Different mensure instruments for the occasional well-prepped tune, okay. More than one mensure for "totally bringing it like Rufus"... not even.

Got it. You may have dated the others, but you married the 3/4.

 

[Tom Lane]

Got it. You may have dated the others, but you married the 3/4.

Well said! One spouse is all I can handle!

 

[damonsmith]

In my opinion the sound, attack and so many other things mean the material is so different for both instruments. A Charlie Haden solo would be pretty dull on a bass guitar, even played by a great player. So much depends on what the instrument offers. You can't just play the same thing. The great bass guitarists have nearly completely different material than the great double bassists. Even when we look at the VERY few great they have different material for each instrument. Steve Swallow had beautiful material on double and has completely different work on the bass guitar.

To bring it all back around to topic, I have NEVER known a bass guitarist to pick up the double bass and do much gig-worthy work within a few months without intensive classical and jazz study with a serious teacher who is honest with the student.
Self directed experiments take longer. Otherwise we'd all get little basses and blow off lessons. Carrying and paying for a big expensive thing as well as lessons are not the "fun" parts. However, we do these things because there are centuries of evidence behind it working.

 

[PauFerro]

Update: Did a well-paid community gig this weekend. Used 1/4 sized Upright extensively -- repeat booking again at rates suitable for this type of gig. I keep thinking I should upgrade to a 1/2 size but at this time I still don't see the point. I do think at some point I might do it, but it doesn't seem urgent. And if I did upgrade, I'd probably keep the 1/4 size so I can keep gigging and then ease into the 1/2 size at my own pace. Eventually, sell off the 1/4 size when I'm competent on the 1/2 size.

I had to adjust from my 30" fretless electric bass to my 35" scale 1/4 size upright, and seem to be able to switch back and forth pretty easily, so I don't see a big deal with with switching between a 1/4 size upright and 1/2 size upright.

 

[damonsmith]

I had to adjust from my 30" fretless electric bass to my 35" scale 1/4 size upright, and seem to be able to switch back and forth pretty easily, so I don't see a big deal with with switching between a 1/4 size upright and 1/2 size upright.

Again, another post indicating you are either super human or delusional.

 

[bobsax]

Frets ? I don't have a fretless electric but it seems like it would be a difficult switch for an upright player to make. What do most upright(main instrument) players prefer ? Fretless or fretted electric?

 

[PauFerro]

It partly depends on the style of the music. I tried playing a fretless in a band that did "Into the Mystic". The band could not for the life of them figure out why the song didn't sound right. I switched to a fretted electric and it sounded right. Also, with the exception of Bathiki Kumalo (the guy who did bass work on Paul Simon's Graceland), most songs that require slapping or popping also demand a fretted instrument. So, I personally don't care if its fretted or fretless, unless the song demands one or the other. Switching between scale length hasn't been a big problem after a brief period of adjustment.

 

[bobsax]

One major league DB player I know uses a fretless BG and uses basically the same fingerings he uses on the DB (lots of open strings). Another one uses a fretless and plays in the middle of the neck with minimal open strings.
This guy likes frets

 

[Josh Kneisel]

Frets ? I don't have a fretless electric but it seems like it would be a difficult switch for an upright player to make. What do most upright(main instrument) players prefer ? Fretless or fretted electric?

I play both. It depends on what you are going for tone wise. I prefer to play whatever bass is needed for the song (usually an Upright and if not it's usually fretted EBG)

 

[damonsmith]

I only play BG at home now, but I like frets.

 

[damonsmith]

Very few fretless BG players even know what it means to play in tune. A few like Manring, practice scales with an ebow, but it has the same issues as a double bass played pizz. It generally takes a pro who has all day to practice. Like the double bass it still sounds cool enough without pure intonation and close enough is usually the order of the day.

 

[Sean Riddle]

I'm mainly a double bass player now, but I do play a fretless bass guitar for a few projects, mostly Highlife music and now some electric traditional Balkan music. Just like Damon mentioned, it's a really difficult instrument to master pure intonation on. I do sometimes use double bass like fingerings to help out if needed, but the instrument really sounds better with the electric bass fingerings that are ear for the sound of the instrument. All I can say is that it is a difficult balancing act between the two instruments.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Play the same song on each scale length & type of instrument until something 'clicks' in your brain, allowing you to switch automatically.

Everything I could play on Fretted EB I learned to play on Fretless EB.

 

[GretschWretch]

With any fretless instrument, I expect that when it comes to intonation, ears are more important than fingers.

 

[damonsmith]

With any fretless instrument, I expect that when it comes to intonation, ears are more important than fingers.

I mean, if you want to constantly slide into notes. That sort of misinformed comment implies that any trained classical singer can pick up any fretless instrument with no experience and play it dead on in tune, they can't. With any fretless instrument every single facility you have is extremely important and it still won't be enough.

 

[GretschWretch]

I mean, if you want to constantly slide into notes. That sort of misinformed comment implies that any trained classical singer can pick up any fretless instrument with no experience and play it dead on in tune, they can't. With any fretless instrument every single facility you have is extremely important and it still won't be enough.

I mean, that regardless of the fretless instrument, and regardless of whether one slides into notes or goes for dead on, and regardless of what fingering system one employs, the ears are what let you know whether or not you are in tune, not "Oh, it's Simandl, so I must have landed in the right place."

The remark about classical singers and fretless instruments is such a hyperbolic non sequitur and so irrelevant to the discussion that I'm not even going to address it.