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18" Speakers???

In the 80's Peavey had a few lines of unique cabs involving 18's. They had these:

Peavey 1820:

View attachment 1061377

For larger shows, they had the Peavey 3620:

View attachment 1061378

I had the fortune of using both these cabinets on some larger venues in the 80's. The bottom end was just fine for me-- I didn't notice any sluggishness. What made these beasts very nice was the crossover to the 2 x 10's. When I played through two of the 3620's and a Peavey Mark X-something head, the look of the system was intimidating and the sound very full.

I remember a great short deep cab from the early 70's the Cerwin Vega 18" folded horn. It was not meant so much to project definition but more to project a thunderous low end you could feel in your feet in the club. I saw a band in Seattle and the bass player had one of these and an Ampeg amp and it completely ENVELOPED the club in low end loveliness.

View attachment 1061379

So, while the industry has been dominated by 15's, 10's and now the 12's, the 18's have played a a unique niche role for a small group of thunder gods! :smug:

I used to own the earlier 1810 version, which is actually likely what the cab on the right in the top pic is. The 1810 and 1820 were very similar, if not practically the same, the 1810 just being the earlier version. I had a 1516 (15+2x8) before that, but the 1810 blew it out of the water and I sold the 1516 before gigging it. My head was the swr bass350 red face, the year was 1998.

Caveat, my 1810 was purchased from Bart Broadnax, an incredible bass player and musical director, and he needed it for one more gig, so I went to the gig (hotel lounge 7pc band with horns) and bought his cab at the end. It had been re-18d with an 8ohm EV but I did not open it up and get the specs, I was told it was a 200w speaker, and that it was "warmer" than the original black widow. I don't remember it being overly muddy, and it really had a big bottom.

The way I ran it was to bypass the crossover, which sucked power and didn't utilize the bottom end of the 10s or the top end of the 18. So I plugged full range into the bi amp inputs, effectively the amp saw it as a 4 ohm 210 and 8 ohm 118 (the amp was 2ohm stable). This rig did sound incredible, but the cab was stupid heavy, and since it was a peavey and a stop gap, I sold it to a friend when I bought my Goliath III and son of bertha. I had considered big Ben, but the size and sound of the 115 convinced me. I still have the Goliath, but the bass350 and bertha were stolen.

+1 to the big Ben, but in reality, it really needs some smaller speakers to go with it.

When using an 18, mixing drivers is a good thing. Peavey 1810/1820 cabinets fill the whole room with low end, but the side by side 10s don't perform as well off axis for mid/high, but they were great on axis.

Putting it on its side would probably have been beneficial. That sideways stack of 3620s with that vertical 410 array probably performed very well, but back then we didnt know why. 2 1810/20 cabs stacked that way would be nice too, less overkill factor, nobody needs 4x18!

Adam Yauch (rip) used 3620 and other peavey cabs.
 
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So here again, a pic of my current 2x18"/2x6"/horn cab.
Drivers are all Eminence:

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
HornFlare Detail | Eminence Speaker

300L net volume, tuned to 42Hz.
The crossover limits the 18" at 800Hz with 6dB/Oct, the mid range kicks in at 500Hz with 12dB/Oct and the tweeter takes over at 3.5KHz.
That cab is definitely not on the slow side, speakers made some serious progress since the 70's.
Additionally the two 6"ers jump right out at you when you need attack in the transients.
My other cab, a TecAmp L810 moves more air and might even go a tad lower, but the 18"s have got a beautiful growl to them that is a good bit lower than a typical 15".
May not be a cab for everyone but I and the band love it!

909.jpg
 
Never liked 18"s. Never. Every one I heard sounded like a big old muddy fart.
So yeah - test drive before you buy. If you dig them, then you dig them. Simple as that.

Exactly my point of view and my experience with 18"! No dynamic, muddy, mid oriented despite that constant rumor that says the bigger the speaker is the lower it goes. 10" speakers for me all the way. I'm also considering 12", but not more!
However the only 18" I've heard great review was the SWR Big Ben.
 
In my humble opinion a single well designed 18" cab on the bottom of a rig is not that bad, but be prepared to invest in power... The lowest power rating for an modern 18" driver that I found was 500W continueous, and in my experience you need to match the power rating with the amp power to get a clean, fast response on that large driver.... And I am not talking slow watts... I am talking professional PA class D amp or a good old class AB transistor amp with large coke sized capactiors with a lot of instant power on demand.. The amp has to be able to deliever high peak currents..

I experienced this with home HIFI speakers.. Coupled a pair of 1"+6.5" compact speakers on a 2x50W rated small transistor amp,, Compared it to a large heavy 2x100W amp with large capacitors on the same speakers.. The tighness in the lows between the two amps were very noticable..

But the problem with running 15" or 18" on bass guitar is the off axis projection... THe high frequencies or even high mids fall of drastically on large drivers.. I find this rather annoying with 12" guitar speakers as well... So with a 18" on the bottom playing into your legs a cab on top with at least 2x10" is needed to get some high mid clarity in your sound..

This could be the reason why 10" are so popular with bass players.. It is easier to get a tighter sound (pratically no low E1, 41.2Hz fundamental on a lot of 10" speakers) and they have better off-axis treble and high mids than 12",15". The guitar world seem very conservative, but a multiple 6 x 8" cab (cone area ~ 300 square inches) seem more appropiate for guitar than a 2 x 12" (Cone area ~ 228 square inches) as the 8" speaker has a wider off axis treble projection than the lazer beam highs of a 12" speaker and no boomy lows on the stage....

Putting a tweeter in the 15" cab helps but with a high crossover frequency (typical 3.5kHz) that 15" is still gonna have a 1.8kHz to 3KHz directional beam that is gonna hit some ppor ear in the audience.. A professional PA speaker with a 1" compression driver and a 15" speaker will have its crossover down at 2kHz for a good blend and off-axis projection..
 
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In the 80's Peavey had a few lines of unique cabs involving 18's. They had these:

Peavey 1820:

View attachment 1061377

For larger shows, they had the Peavey 3620:

View attachment 1061378

I had the fortune of using both these cabinets on some larger venues in the 80's. The bottom end was just fine for me-- I didn't notice any sluggishness. What made these beasts very nice was the crossover to the 2 x 10's. When I played through two of the 3620's and a Peavey Mark X-something head, the look of the system was intimidating and the sound very full.

I remember a great short deep cab from the early 70's the Cerwin Vega 18" folded horn. It was not meant so much to project definition but more to project a thunderous low end you could feel in your feet in the club. I saw a band in Seattle and the bass player had one of these and an Ampeg amp and it completely ENVELOPED the club in low end loveliness.

View attachment 1061379

So, while the industry has been dominated by 15's, 10's and now the 12's, the 18's have played a a unique niche role for a small group of thunder gods! :smug:

I ran two of these Peavey cabs back in the 80's with two Gallien Krueger 800rb's. Hung in there with the wall of Marshall 4x12's my guitar player's used. Those were the days! LOL
 
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I may be the odd guy out here, but I don't recall seeing many 18" drivers that have usable specs above above 3-3.5 kHz, and most seem to be around 2- 2.5 kHz. That doesn't seem particularly bright in my mind, albeit for bass guitar it might be enough high frequency for many. Maybe it's just me, but "18" driver" isn't exactly screaming tweeter or even main stream mid-range driver in my mind. Am I missing something (which is usually the case)?
My post above:
This guy, the Electro-Voice EVM-18B ProLine, does 40 to 6000 Hz on-axis, and probably performs better than some/many 15-inchers and (square-arranged, as nearly all are) 410s even off-axis:
Reverb ad
Same driver as what's in the cabs in the Invalid Link Removed the OP probably saw:

ehedakgynhfpojtpti2z.jpg


One might say that full-range 18" drivers like that are by no means the norm...which I acknowledged in the posts. From other comments, it appears as other satisfyingly extended range* 18"-loaded cabs did exist, like the above-mentioned Bag End or the SWR.

*(either comparable with the EV, or only up to 2.5~3 kHz but subjectively enough for the user, as you said. The SWR Big Ben was -6dB @ 3 kHz according to the Link Removed. Also, AFAIK there was no JBL direct competitor to the EVM-18B with comparable treble extension: their Invalid Link Removed was only good up to 2000 Hz.)
 
but subjectively enough for the user
I did in fact read your post and was amazed that an 18" driver even existed that could go that high. I was just a little taken aback by the seeing folks using the words "bright", "18 inch (and even 15") speaker" in the same sentence. However, taken within the context of bass guitar cabs and player expectations, I can see words like treble extension and (relatively) bright making more sense. :)
 
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I did in fact read your post and was amazed that an 18" driver even existed that could go that high. I was just a little taken aback by the seeing folks using the words "bright", "18 inch (and even 15") speaker" in the same sentence. However, taken within the context of bass guitar cabs and player expectations, I can see words like treble extension and (relatively) bright making more sense. :)
To further support your point, Bag End declares 38 Hz to 2 kHz ±6 dB for the S18B-D:
http://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/S18B-D.pdf

A post du jour by Duke LeJeune, about an Eminence 15":
If you like growly upper mids and don't need a lot of treble, imo the Basslite C2515's voicing is just about perfect.
Thing is, the woofer rolls off at 2, 2.5 kilocycles, but it has a huuuuge peak just to the left of that:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I'd bet it cuts like a knife through butter. Possibly that's what's going on with some old eighteeners.
 
In the 80's Peavey had a few lines of unique cabs involving 18's. They had these:

Peavey 1820:

View attachment 1061377

For larger shows, they had the Peavey 3620:

View attachment 1061378

I had the fortune of using both these cabinets on some larger venues in the 80's. The bottom end was just fine for me-- I didn't notice any sluggishness. What made these beasts very nice was the crossover to the 2 x 10's. When I played through two of the 3620's and a Peavey Mark X-something head, the look of the system was intimidating and the sound very full.

I remember a great short deep cab from the early 70's the Cerwin Vega 18" folded horn. It was not meant so much to project definition but more to project a thunderous low end you could feel in your feet in the club. I saw a band in Seattle and the bass player had one of these and an Ampeg amp and it completely ENVELOPED the club in low end loveliness.

View attachment 1061379

So, while the industry has been dominated by 15's, 10's and now the 12's, the 18's have played a a unique niche role for a small group of thunder gods! :smug:


About ten years ago for $125.00 I bought an old Peavey 1820 cabinet.

From Peavey I then bought two scorpion 10-Inch ($55.00 each) and one 18-Inch ($150.00 each) black widow speaker replacement baskets. For a total of about $385.00 and after I refreshed this old cab I ran it with my SVT 3-Pro and the sound was heavenly. Full, fat, articulate and loud. I loved, loved, loved that cab. Unfortunately It weight over 100 pounds.
 
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My first amp was a VOX AC50 with the 18” Foundation cabinet. I disliked it with a passion. Later I joined a band who supplied me with a twin 18” monster. I hated that more. i’ll never use an 18” driver again if I have a choice!

In both cases the diameter of the speaker(s) was probably the least of the issues. Poorly constructed speakers in poorly designed cabs powered by amps with little-to-no headroom spring to mind, especially when you are messing around with a whole 50 watts.
 
Vega 18" drivers were quite dominant in the Acoustic folded horn cabs of the mid 1970's.
I had a 301 cab back then and before that I had a Selmer Goliath 1X18 ported cab with a 4X12 cab on top.
View attachment 1061205
That was before we discovered that mixing loudspeakers was the primary cause of global warming.:)X
I still play through an Acoustic 360 with an 18" loaded into the folded horn. The old one doesn't come out to play much any more, which makes it the practice amp from hell. But, it sounds great to me. I'm pretty sure it causes global warming, too.
 
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Naaaaah, I'd stay away from these old relics. (I remember when they were new). Heavy, expensive to recone, require a proportionally huge enclosure. Hard to resell these behemoths if they don't work out. *Instead* Do some research and utilize some recent high end 12" or 15" drivers. This you wont regret.
 
Back in the day I owned these 18" cabs at different times:
ACOUSTIC 360 powered 1-18 folded horn
ACOUSTIC 301 1-18 folded horn
ROAD 2-18 front loaded and ported
SUNN Coliseum 1-18 front loaded and ported
They all sounded like ass.............but they were LOUD and that's what mattered at that time.
PEAVEY 1810 1-18 and 2x10 front loaded and ported, sounded better, more transient punch. but still weak.
I finally figured it out and got an SVT with 8x10 flatback. The best rig I ever owned !!
Now all my cabs have 10's or 15's.
 
In the 70s, I Used a Hohner "Pro bass" amp.
It was a 100w combo (yes..combo)solid state in a huge 18" folded horn Cerwin Vega "Earthquake" cab.
Muddy?... Why yes..yes it was
It probably didn't help that I played Gibson basses through it. Before I finally retired it, I was able to tame it a little with a Mxr 5 band eq. The little blue stomp box helped.
 
In 1963 Ampeg introduced the 50W B-18N. The most common speaker was the C18N 18" Cleveland, two options were available that were offered a few years later, Goodmans and Fane models. There was a provision for an external cabinet, so players could rock with 218's.
 
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