18" Speakers???

[AlienLanes]

lately I've been thinking about switching from my 12's back to 15's. I saw an ad on Reverb of a guy selling two 2x18 Mesa cabs. Instinctively I started drooling while looking at them, but I still question the functionality of 18"s in a band mix. Too muddy? Anyone ever try them out?

 

[xring]

lately I've been thinking about switching from my 12's back to 15's. I saw an ad on Reverb of a guy selling two 2x18 Mesa cabs. Instinctively I started drooling while looking at them, but I still question the functionality of 18"s in a band mix. Too muddy? Anyone ever try them out?

I played an outdoor gig with 2 Bag End S18 b-d. Clean heavy tone that eq well. Not all 18 cabs are created equal, so be careful. I'm not familiar with the Mesa's

 

[BassmanPaul]

My first amp was a VOX AC50 with the 18” Foundation cabinet. I disliked it with a passion. Later I joined a band who supplied me with a twin 18” monster. I hated that more. i’ll never use an 18” driver again if I have a choice!

 

[Kirk Bryant]

If you're interested in a cab with an 18" speaker, this is the one you want!

There is also a thread here about an early experimental version of what became this cab I believe.

 

[Nine lives]

Wait for it ... someone is going to chime in with the worn old adage "the size of the speaker only tells you the size of the hole"

Unless that doesn't apply to 18s? I've never used one so I'm not one to ask.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Wait for it ... someone is going to chime in with the worn old adage "the size of the speaker only tells you the size of the hole"

Unless that doesn't apply to 18s? I've never used one so I'm not one to ask.

In these cases I like mentioning a counterexample to the assumption that eighteens are all woof, no brightness.
From a recent-ish thread about 18" for bass guitar,
Mesa Boogie 2x18 Road Ready Bass Cabinet 1997 Black
a post o'mine:

This guy, the Electro-Voice EVM-18B ProLine, does 40 to 6000 Hz on-axis, and probably performs better than some/many 15-inchers and (square-arranged, as nearly all are) 410s even off-axis:
Anyone rockin an 18?

I'll readily concede it's just the exception that disproves the rule, and that the engineer(s) that designed it must have done an awful lot of tradeoff-juggling. And that this is pretty much it for big bright woofers - I don't expect to find anything remotely like it among 21" drivers or larger...

So, clearly 18-inch mid-bass woofers with decent treble extension can exist, because they do, ergo, assuming the range of bass (guitar)-capable driver sizes is finite, eighteens don't fall outside it in principle. However, that drivers like the EV above are uncommon and many more are instead subwoofers, solely meant to be used in multi-way systems, also appears to be the case. Whether the reason is that bright 18's are hard to design, or that only the SR subwoofer market seems to be profitable for manufacturers of big drivers so they only design them for it, or some other reason, I could not say.

More relevant to @ShaneF: is there a chance those Mesa 218 cabs are loaded with that very same Electro-Voice driver? Worth investigating, or being idly curious about.

OK, it seems so:
claiming to own one
"Only 3 of these cabinets were ever made".
Another thread about a cab mistakenly believed to be a Mesa 2x18, with a member (author of that sole post) later Mesa Diesel 2X18 (one of those three then?), and a couple others mentioning owning a 118:
Anyone rockin an 18?

Anyway, if one's interested and feels like rolling his own, free plans for a Thiele cab (the TL505) for the EVM-18B were provided to the world by Electro-Voice:
http://www.realoldiesradio.com/docs/EV/ElectroVoice_TL505.pdf
A handy chap - surely not yours truly - could make a 218 version out of them.

 

[beans-on-toast]

The problem with an 18" speaker is that re-cone kits for speakers that are no longer in production may be hard to find. There tends to more parts available for more popular speakers. So if it's to be gigged regulary, you have to keep potential service issues in mind.

 

[Chasarms]

Traditionally, 18" speakers were valued because of the overall lower fr. The down side is that they were "slow." You didn't get the punch you could get with smaller cones. As the smaller cones became more advanced, cabinet design evolved and watts got cheaper, the benefits of 18s faded as you could get the fr extension without giving up the quickness of smaller cones.

That said, of you have an 18" in a sealed cabinet with plenty of power, it'll pound.

They were never super popular in bass rigs, but fairly common in PAs back in the day.

 

[Nephilymbass]

18s are For PA systems in my opinion. At least out the ones I've tried. Go for something a bit more articulate for your rig and you won't be bringing those big cabs to only be told to lower your stage volume every sound check.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Driver specs, as linked above, lead me to believe nothing is slow or tubby about those specific Mesas' tone. It's probably in the same ballpark as those revered EV and JBL bright fifteens of yesteryear. But with a lot of extra booty. In the right airspace and tuning, that is. But with low mechanical power handling, in that case. Tradeoffs.

 

[Jack Wilcox]

18s move more air that an equivalent smaller driver. If one were to take a 12" driver and scale up the dimensions so the diameter became 18", the 18 would simply move more air.

As a result of this, 18s are preferred in PA applications for subs. Low freqs require more air movement than higher freqs, so it stands to reason that larger diameter speakers displacing more air results in smoother, less distorted bass freqs. Yes, there are plenty of full-range 18s out there now, but none (to my knowledge) in bass cabs.

ANYWAYS. In bass cab terms, this typically means two things:
1) embrace the mud, get a PbSs with flats and thunder away
2) run in a biamp rig for massive bottom. I can say that the few Mesa 18s I've tried sounded phenomenal with a GK800rb in biamp mode

 

[Bassmec]

Vega 18" drivers were quite dominant in the Acoustic folded horn cabs of the mid 1970's.
I had a 301 cab back then and before that I had a Selmer Goliath 1X18 ported cab with a 4X12 cab on top.

That was before we discovered that mixing loudspeakers was the primary cause of global warming.X

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

I have found that 18s can sound fairly bright.
It depends more on the speaker than the size.
Mesa mostly used EVs for a long time.
I would expect them to be brightish and clear...
and heavy.

 

[Korladis]

I have found that 18s can sound fairly bright.
It depends more on the speaker than the size.
Mesa mostly used EVs for a long time.
I would expect them to be brightish and clear...
and heavy.

Indeed. If it's like the 2x15 cabs from the same era, they were probably using EVs, which are relatively bright.

 

[Al Kraft]

I may be the odd guy out here, but I don't recall seeing many 18" drivers that have usable specs above above 3-3.5 kHz, and most seem to be around 2- 2.5 kHz. That doesn't seem particularly bright in my mind, albeit for bass guitar it might be enough high frequency for many. Maybe it's just me, but "18" driver" isn't exactly screaming tweeter or even main stream mid-range driver in my mind. Am I missing something (which is usually the case)?

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Traditionally, 18" speakers were valued because of the overall lower fr. The down side is that they were "slow." You didn't get the punch you could get with smaller cones. As the smaller cones became more advanced, cabinet design evolved and watts got cheaper, the benefits of 18s faded as you could get the fr extension without giving up the quickness of smaller cones.

That said, of you have an 18" in a sealed cabinet with plenty of power, it'll pound.

They were never super popular in bass rigs, but fairly common in PAs back in the day.

In the 80's Peavey had a few lines of unique cabs involving 18's. They had these:

Peavey 1820:

For larger shows, they had the Peavey 3620:

I had the fortune of using both these cabinets on some larger venues in the 80's. The bottom end was just fine for me-- I didn't notice any sluggishness. What made these beasts very nice was the crossover to the 2 x 10's. When I played through two of the 3620's and a Peavey Mark X-something head, the look of the system was intimidating and the sound very full.

I remember a great short deep cab from the early 70's the Cerwin Vega 18" folded horn. It was not meant so much to project definition but more to project a thunderous low end you could feel in your feet in the club. I saw a band in Seattle and the bass player had one of these and an Ampeg amp and it completely ENVELOPED the club in low end loveliness.

So, while the industry has been dominated by 15's, 10's and now the 12's, the 18's have played a a unique niche role for a small group of thunder gods!

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Vega 18" drivers were quite dominant in the Acoustic folded horn cabs of the mid 1970's.
I had a 301 cab back then and before that I had a Selmer Goliath 1X18 ported cab with a 4X12 cab on top.
View attachment 1061205
That was before we discovered that mixing loudspeakers was the primary cause of global warming.X

God! How could I have forgotten the Godfather of 18s? The Acoustic 301's!!!!

 

[Ric5]

lately I've been thinking about switching from my 12's back to 15's. I saw an ad on Reverb of a guy selling two 2x18 Mesa cabs. Instinctively I started drooling while looking at them, but I still question the functionality of 18"s in a band mix. Too muddy? Anyone ever try them out?

It totally depends on the speaker and cab ... Some speaker are full range and some are true subs. I have a 1x18 cab I built myself. It goes really well with my 2x10. I also used to play through an acoustic 301 with a full range 18"

With an 18 you will probably need a horn or some 10s to round out the sound.

 

[Jack Wilcox]

EDIT:

The SWR Big Ben is a fantastic full-range 18 for bass

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Never liked 18"s. Never. Every one I heard sounded like a big old muddy fart.
So yeah - test drive before you buy. If you dig them, then you dig them. Simple as that.