1962 Jazz $20K on the bay

[themacinator]

I am the OP on this thread and I am surprised at the stamina this has had. But pleased too. I think it's helped those who are interested in making the jump to a $3-$8K+ bass learn much more about the inspection and validation process.

 

[BurningSkies]

I know a local guy who hoards 'parts' for vintage gear, from which he can assemble a full 'original' guitar from on occasion. I'm guessing that there are plenty of guys out there who are in the position to do the same thing...and once they've married that pickguard to the correct body, attached a neck they sell it frumunda the bed. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth when I found he was doing it and I found myself thinking that I wouldn't trust any vintage-ish instruments from him.

I think there are still plenty of guitars hidden in closets, attics and under beds out there. When I was a regular on the Tele board, they'd come up fairly often. There's 40 years of various 'vintage' instruments out there in the world and they'll all show up eventually.

I also knew a guy who worked for the local department of public works...his job would be to go around to abandoned or vacant houses and apartments in town and clean them out before being condemned. He TOO found instruments. Sure, many were junk, but also a few nice pieces along the way.

So, unless it comes from a very reputable high profile collector or dealer and has provenance, or it came frumunda the bed and I can purchase it at the yardsale or from the original owner or his family, I'd seriously think about what I'm buying. Its one thing if it's a sub 2K 70's Fender, but if it's a pre-CBS high dollar item...

 

[michael_atw]

I know a local guy who hoards 'parts' for vintage gear, from which he can assemble a full 'original' guitar from on occasion. I'm guessing that there are plenty of guys out there who are in the position to do the same thing...and once they've married that pickguard to the correct body, attached a neck they sell it frumunda the bed. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth when I found he was doing it and I found myself thinking that I wouldn't trust any vintage-ish instruments from him.

I've thought about doing the same. I have lots of old parts...I once thought to buy a 70's Telecaster Custom, just missing a humbucker...wait until I got a humbucker and marry it up. I would have probably made $600 just from doing that one act.

 

[Meddle]

Wow another potentially interesting TB thread that descended into bitter, impotent know-all man-children bickering about worthless ****.

Who cares, the uber-rare Jazz went from one collector to another. Good to see typical TB values prevailing though.

 

[michael_atw]

Wow another potentially interesting TB thread that descended into bitter, impotent know-all man-children bickering about worthless ****.

Irony alert

 

[mongo2]

Heck - even matching #'s, concourse show quality cars aren't 100% original.

And when was the last time somebody bought a car and left it in it's case under a bed for decades?

 

[hdracer]

And when was the last time somebody bought a car and left it in it's case under a bed for decades?

Jay Leno found a one owner 1931 Duesenberg Model J a couple years ago. That's a little more rare then a Fender or Gibson guitar or bass.

 

[gigslut]

Heck - even matching #'s, concourse show quality cars aren't 100% original.

And they aren't devalued because they've been refinished.

 

[michael_atw]

We can probably safely assume that the vast majority of instruments these clean that are 100% original aren't necessarily factory original. NOS parts are all over the place - I once paid half as much for a set of 60's pots NOS from the going rate, merely because they were NOS. Then I sold them for profit I'm not saying it's true nor putting forth a foundation of evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bass is made up of NOS parts.

 

[johnk_10]

Exactly...


Not a knob, screw, or string replaced? They might be out there, but I doubt anyone on this board has ever seen one.

then you doubt wrong. i've seen lots of 100% original ones. and many were from their original owners that never turned a screw on them.

 

[Darnell Jones]

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


"We detune all guitars so that there is no tension in the neck..."

Except for the truss rod which is now causing tension in a way not conducive to playing since it is now counteracting a force which has been removed without removing the corrective force of the truss rod

Sounds like an expert to me.

 

[Darnell Jones]

How is it that these basses were kept in such immaculate condition? If we are to believe that they are real, it would have to be because the original owner purchased them as collectors pieces back in the 1960's. They would have had to have been kept in a climate controlled environment for most of their existance. Now, you're telling me that the original owner went to all of this trouble, and then just threw out ALL of the paper work and disappeared? You're telling me that, even though these basses came from a collector, that it is impossible to trace where they came from?

Oh ye of little faith

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. - YouTube

 

[Darnell Jones]

To quote Rick Nielsen, an avid high-end collector....

"If it's mine, it's real. If it's yours, it's fake".

He really nailed the dynamic here.

 

[Darnell Jones]

Heck - even matching #'s, concourse show quality cars aren't 100% original.

The car and guitar worlds seem to be very far apart on how they treat vintage. I'm amazed at how much you can replace on a car and increase it's value where as on guitars simply re melting a solder joint to fix a bad connection can lower the cost more than the price of a better playing guitar.

My friend had a tele he bought new, original owner since the late 1960's. Respected vintage dealer told him it was a fake but offered to buy it for cheap. I always suspected it would be real by the time it went on sale. Or Rick Nielsen bought it. Talk about a cheap trick.

 

[IM BLACK]

vintage counterfeits? you need help. your logic is- i cant see how this could possibly be real therefore its not. congratulations on reading about 80's fakes though.

very valid point...

 

[One Drop]

We can probably safely assume that the vast majority of instruments these clean that are 100% original aren't necessarily factory original. NOS parts are all over the place - I once paid half as much for a set of 60's pots NOS from the going rate, merely because they were NOS. Then I sold them for profit I'm not saying it's true nor putting forth a foundation of evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bass is made up of NOS parts.

I honestly can't believe what I just read, specifically that last sentence. After this whole thread, you are basically saying it could be a counterfeit, and you wouldn't be surprised?

Through the looking glass...

 

[michael_atw]

I honestly can't believe what I just read, specifically that last sentence. After this whole thread, you are basically saying it could be a counterfeit, and you wouldn't be surprised?

Through the looking glass...

Oy. NOS parts is not a "counterfeit", nor did I put forth any evidence of such a thing. Counterfeit implies non-original, fake parts. NOS is original parts, just never "factory" used (as far as I know the term).

I merely stated it wouldn't surprise me. Then again, most anything doesn't.

From Wikipedia:

"Although not an officially recognized accounting term, it is in common use in the auction and retail industries. For example, owners of antique vehicles seek NOS parts from specialized vendors that are needed to keep their automobiles, motorcycles, or trucks operational or in factory-original condition."

I've had many people buy old parts from me I was selling and use them on expensive instruments and resell them. It's not hard to attain a neck plate, pots, tuners, etc. Not putting forth any evidence, just sayin'.


So refrain from jumping down my throat, I'm trying to eat.


If you were to follow from the beginning, there has not been one instance where I suggested or considered this particular bass to be anything less than original. Insofar as "factory" original, I wouldn't know. I'm no expert and my hands aren't on it.

 

[roswell1965]

That neck pocket is hilarious!

 

[One Drop]

Oy. NOS parts is not a "counterfeit", nor did I put forth any evidence of such a thing. Counterfeit implies non-original, fake parts. NOS is original parts, just never "factory" used (as far as I know the term).

I merely stated it wouldn't surprise me. Then again, most anything doesn't.

From Wikipedia:

"Although not an officially recognized accounting term, it is in common use in the auction and retail industries. For example, owners of antique vehicles seek NOS parts from specialized vendors that are needed to keep their automobiles, motorcycles, or trucks operational or in factory-original condition."

I've had many people buy old parts from me I was selling and use them on expensive instruments and resell them. It's not hard to attain a neck plate, pots, tuners, etc. Not putting forth any evidence, just sayin'.

So refrain from jumping down my throat, I'm trying to eat.

If you were to follow from the beginning, there has not been one instance where I suggested or considered this particular bass to be anything less than original. Insofar as "factory" original, I wouldn't know. I'm no expert and my hands aren't on it.

You know, I thought we could have some sort of a rational discussion but now I just feel like an ass for having wasted any time taking you seriously. Have fun with your games.

 

[GreenWithEnvy]

Live and learn, huh, One Drop?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/62-av-ri-real-fake-851654/