215 & 215/2x6.5 Driver options for new build.

[rpsands]

I can't remember why but I think you'd have better luck with 6md38s. Sorry for useless info

 

[Passinwind]

Ran across these. Look pretty good on paper. Response to 8kHz, 120 RMS, 99dB SPL.

B&C 6 PEV13 is a 6.5" midrange speaker - B&C Speakers - B&C 6.5" midrange speaker for 3 or 4-way sytems. B&C 6 PEV13 midrange speakers available now. Main downside may be the 0.6 Xmax. Does Xmax really matter much in a 2-way w/mids in a separate box?

I can pick them up for $70. At just slightly more $ than Faital 6FE200s, I think these may now be the front-runner for me as the best lower-cost alternative to the 18Sounds.

There are a few comparisons with 6MD38 on DIYAudio and the Parts Express Tech Talk forums. Frankly, I went with 6MD38 because it was on special at the time, and EAW was using them in a cabinet I had heard and liked.

With DIY projects like this I generally tend to just buy the two or three most likely candidates and sell off the losers or (more likely) find an excuse to use them in some other project.

 

[iualum]

Having trouble finding the response chart for that one. Forgot about it but now that you bring it up, I remember looking at that one and considering it pretry good as well. Can't remember much details without the chart.

Don't get hung up on having a "modern" sound. They don't have to sound that way if you don't want them to. My go to sound is fairly "vintage" or "old school". My 2 way just sounds like a clearer version of that. Not trebly or zingy at all, unless you dial that in. Hearing all the uppermid detail does take a little getting used, but that stuff's always been in your sound, some speakers just don't give you much of it. Nothing a little knob adjustment won't fix.

Yeah, posted before I started looking for the chart, but I'm unable to find one anywhere, the B&C site included (actually looked there 1st after the US Speaker site). They've been discontinued. Don't know for how long, maybe a while. Guess that's why there's no chart around. Need a chart, don't you, to design a crossover? Guess could buy, then test & make your own chart. How many builders do you think do this? Or do most (all?) just use previously published charts?

No, not hung up on a "modern" sound. All I meant by that was that the 3015s, 15PR400s, & 3015s (in conjunction with whatever mids) are so much better in, well, all respects (don't you think?) then 15s of yesteryear.

 

[will33]

The crossover designer could likely do pretty good in box models if they had the complete datasheet, but yes, the best way is to take all the measurements needed while it's in the box it'll be operating in. In the case of a mid, a little .1 cu.ft. or so sealed box.

And yeah, I guess "modern sound", now just means more/better sound. And it's nice having 15's do what used to require a good 18. I view my 212 as sort of a mini 215. It basically puts out what used to require a 215 in a much smaller package, and my drivers aren't even the best available, just "good ones".

 

[johnk_10]

Yeah, posted before I started looking for the chart, but I'm unable to find one anywhere, the B&C site included (actually looked there 1st after the US Speaker site). They've been discontinued. Don't know for how long, maybe a while. Guess that's why there's no chart around. Need a chart, don't you, to design a crossover? Guess could buy, then test & make your own chart. How many builders do you think do this? Or do most (all?) just use previously published charts?

613PEV freq response chart:

613PEV specs:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[will33]

613PEV freq response chart:

613PEV specs:

Invalid Link Removed

Cool, thanks. I remember now wondering what the climb up to the peak over 100db would sound like up there between 3&5khz. Your crossover designer could put a little inductor or notch filter up there to smooth that off if it's too much for you. That's up there in what would consider to be sort of "old school treble" as far as a bass is concerned.

 

[iualum]

Wow! See? This is why there is just no place like TalkBass! Tremendous! Thank you very much. Thought there was nothing on the site. You're a better Sherlock Holmes than me .

I barely know anything about this stuff, but that's a pretty nice looking chart, isn't it (providing B&C's testing procedures are legitimate of course)?

The 1 thing that still concerns me, though, is the tiny 0.6 Xmax. Would it concern you at all? Or because it'll be a 2-way & they'd be in their own box, there isn't so much cause for worry?

613PEV freq response chart:

613PEV specs:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[will33]

Wow! See? This is why there is just no place like TalkBass! Tremendous! Thank you very much. Thought there was nothing on the site. You're a better Sherlock Holmes than me .

I barely know anything about this stuff, but that's a pretty nice looking chart, isn't it (providing B&C's testing procedures are legitimate of course)?

The 1 thing that still concerns me, though, is the tiny 0.6 Xmax. Would it concern you at all? Or because it'll be a 2-way & they'd be in their own box, there isn't so much cause for worry?

It's more of a dedicated mid. Where you'll be passing it at, xmax isn't a conern really. It's thermal limit will be it's limit. Xmax comes into play at the lower frequencies your woofer will be taking care of. As for the thermal handling, power demands greatly reduce as frequency goes up. Your woofer will be absorbing a good 70% or so of the total power you're sending to the cab. It's why you can use 35-50 watt tweeters and 100 watt mids with woofers measuring in the hundreds of watts.

Guessing at the 70% there but it's up there. Power demand does something like halve each octave you go up or something, have to dig up the actual formula.

 

[will33]

Here's the faital I was talking about earlier.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Found it available here for $98

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I don't know anything about that retailer but there don't seem to be too many places that carry it. That's right the high end of what I want to spend in my situation. You needing 2 of them, maybe the B&C's will do what you need done. Myself, I see no point in going with a neo mid when there are ceramics that do what I want, both because of price and the fact that I couldn't care less about 3lbs. Others may find it worth their while if weight is of utmost importance. Anyway there it is, can throw it in the pile to consider....or not. Anyway....happy hunting.

 

[will33]

Oh, and on the pdf datasheet, it looks like it runs 1, maybe 2 db hotter than it looks on that thick-lined chart on faital's website so I'd look at the pdf. Bigger chart, easier to see exactly what it's supposed to be doing. It's treble extension puts you in tweeter territory without a tweeter. That could work for or against you depending on your tone goals. Again, the crossover designer could roll off the top end if you want.

 

[Passinwind]

Here's the faital I was talking about earlier.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Found it available here for $98

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I don't know anything about that retailer but there don't seem to be too many places that carry it.

FWIW, I bought some Faital 4s from TSGAudio via eBay, and although they didn't have those drivers listed in any auctions at the time, they told me they carry the full line and typically have most of it in stock. They gave me a very reasonable price and I'd buy from them again any time.

 

[will33]

FWIW, I bought some Faital 4s from TSGAudio via eBay, and although they didn't have those drivers listed in any auctions at the time, they told me they carry the full line and typically have most of it in stock. They gave me a very reasonable price and I'd buy from them again any time.

Thanks, I'll look there too. From what I can tell from datasheets, etc., for my purposes, I think I'm settled on that one, although who knows?

 

[iualum]

Here's the faital I was talking about earlier.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Found it available here for $98

<Include (DIR_WS_INCLUDES 'easy_meta_tags.php.);?>

I don't know anything about that retailer but there don't seem to be too many places that carry it. That's right the high end of what I want to spend in my situation. You needing 2 of them, maybe the B&C's will do what you need done. Myself, I see no point in going with a neo mid when there are ceramics that do what I want, both because of price and the fact that I couldn't care less about 3lbs. Others may find it worth their while if weight is of utmost importance. Anyway there it is, can throw it in the pile to consider....or not. Anyway....happy hunting.

Thanks very much for this & all your input! While these look nice, too, I think either the B&C 6PEV13s (less $) or Faital 6FE200s (even less $) would work as well for my needs.

You're completely right about neos being an absolute non-factor for 6" speakers. 2-3lbs extra/driver. Meaningless. If the neo does what you want to do better than a non-neo (& you're O.K. with whatever additional cost), great, the neo it is. But weight doesn't even enter into the equation.

 

[johnk_10]

You're completely right about neos being an absolute non-factor for 6" speakers. 2-3lbs extra/driver. Meaningless. If the neo does what you want to do better than a non-neo (& you're O.K. with whatever additional cost), great, the neo it is. But weight doesn't even enter into the equation.

for me, when i'm building a cab every pound of extra weight matters alot, to others, i suppose that it might not. if a neo does the job that's specified perfectly, then that's what i go with. IMO, if you're going to go to the trouble of having a custom cab built, (or those that build them themself), my advice is to not scrimp (trying to save money) on the the best drivers/XO's for the job, otherwise its results are to much of a compromise and you end up with something that doesn't sound or perform at level as well as it could have. IME, buying once is always cheaper than buying twice.

 

[iualum]

I can't remember why but I think you'd have better luck with 6md38s. Sorry for useless info

Thanks. Not useless at all . I'm asking for opinions. You're not the only one who has mentioned this driver. This B&C looks like an excellent choice. Appreciate it. I just think, for my limited ability (& I'm being generous with myself, lol) that if I go with an 18Sound alternative, other less expensive options would work as well for me, like the B&C 6PEV13 or the Faital Pro 6FE200.

Haven't decided yet, trying to explore all these options, & maybe trying Don's patience a bit as well (although hopefully not, lol). Just want to try to avoid as much buyer's remorse as possible.

Don't know, but in the end I may just decide to either bite the bullet & do the ultimate 2-way box with two 3015LFs & two 6NM410s or go with a straight & simple 215 with 3015s which is still a great cab in it's own right.

 

[iualum]

Well, put my money down on an LDS box. Just haven't picked which one yet, lol. After everything, I'm leaning to simplicity with a straight 215 outfitted w/3015s.

Regardless of which configuration it ends up being, I'll either do;

Tweed [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

or

"Fine Wine" Duratex http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...lors/paint-colors-by-family/SW6307-fine-wine/

with

Oxblood & Gold grill cloth [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

or

Small Weave Cane grill cloth [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] .

Anyone care to chime in on which cosmetics you like best?

 

[will33]

We get to pick out colors too?


I kinda like the wine color with either of the grillcloths, maybe the lighter colored one. Mostly 'cause I'm bored with black on all my stuff and am waffling between a darker maroon/cranberry/wine color like that or a medium/darker green like forest or something. Re-doing my Carvin kit bass in a double step and I have this stain called "merlot" for the grain. It does pretty much look like a merlot wine stain........be flashy...or classy....or gaudy.....or cheesy......at least it's not black.

 

[iualum]

We get to pick out colors too?

I kinda like the wine color with either of the grillcloths, maybe the lighter colored one. Mostly 'cause I'm bored with black on all my stuff and am waffling between a darker maroon/cranberry/wine color like that or a medium/darker green like forest or something. Re-doing my Carvin kit bass in a double step and I have this stain called "merlot" for the grain. It does pretty much look like a merlot wine stain........be flashy...or classy....or gaudy.....or cheesy......at least it's not black.

I like all the choices I listed a lot. There are other grill cloths from MojoTone that I really like too, but per Don, the weave is too tight on them for use in a bass cab. He says they interfere with the bass frequencies. Sounds a bit on the odd side to me, but what do I know? It may also be too tight on the Cane, need to check. Like the Oxblood/Gold very much also, & Don says there's no problem with it.

Was really leaning Tweed, & still am slightly, but love a rich wine color, too. I actually turned Don on to the possibility of something other than black Duratex from Acrytech, the Duratex manufacturer. So if I went this way, I'd be getting Don's first non-black Duratex cab.

Decisions, lol.

 

[BogeyBass]

Well if you want opinions on the cabinet finish.
Never really liked painted cabinets, it looks cheap.

Tweed, looks great on tiny combo amps or the classic suitcase style Fenders....but on large amps it does not look right.
Plus it gets really dirty really fast.
Dont get me wrong I love tweed and oxblood, just not on large amps.

But that [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] Looks really good with Black tolex.
Or possibly a colored vinyl similar to the paint color you chose.

Otherwise looking at Marshall or Orange cabinets that have used that Cane grill cloth. They all have a thicker border or false front that makes the cabinet walls look thicker from the front. Same thing on a Sunn 200S cabinet.

With a false front, tolex covering, cane grill. 2x15 no crossover.

you should have a winner. Bonus points if you add piping to the grill and one line around the cabinet Hiwatt style.

 

[will33]

I like all the choices I listed a lot. There are other grill cloths from MojoTone that I really like too, but per Don, the weave is too tight on them for use in a bass cab. He says they interfere with the bass frequencies. Sounds a bit on the odd side to me, but what do I know? It may also be too tight on the Cane, need to check. Like the Oxblood/Gold very much also, & Don says there's no problem with it.

Was really leaning Tweed, & still am slightly, but love a rich wine color, too. I actually turned Don on to the possibility of something other than black Duratex from Acrytech, the Duratex manufacturer. So if I went this way, I'd be getting Don's first non-black Duratex cab.

Decisions, lol.

Liking that. Thinkong vinyl covering for mine. A little classier/nicer looking. I think you can get duratex or other truckbed liner in dye'd colors like that. Do a nice job andit looks just like pebbly tolex. I have this vision of dark green and same color baffle with perforated metal looking somethung in front of it. Speakers featured black circles.