3 Leaf Audio..... no more? (Chromatron vs Proton)

[Dr Greenthumb]

What bad blood was there?

Spencer and Doug were partners at some point around 2013-15. I don't have first hand knowledge of the whole deal but I believe there was a falling out between Spencer and Doug. I'd have to guess that took the wind out of Spencer's sails. I know he stopped posting here after that.. Had he been focusing on 3Leaf and not dabble with Darkglass at that time, 3Leaf might be more vibrant today..

 

[cxcxcx]

What bad blood was there?

Spencer fell victim to the rampant fanboy behavior for certain brands that many posters exhibit here. This forum is pretty good at that, along with doing the self-deputized music retail business police thing.

Spencer was building product for another well-known entity in the industry with an association with aggressive music and a rabid, vocal fanbase. The two camps involved parted ways in a manner that the fanboys and enthusiasts didn’t care for, and they let Spencer have it. Spencer also released a pedal that was very similar to a flagship product of the company he was building for shortly after the separation. Torches and pitchforks followed. He wasn’t appreciative or deserving of the sort of commentary he got about this and hasn’t posted here since 2015. The thread outlining this is linked below.

3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Spencer fell victim to the rampant fanboy behavior for certain brands that many posters exhibit here. This forum is pretty good at that, along with doing the self-deputized music retail business police thing.

Spencer was building product for another well-known entity in the industry with an association with aggressive music and a rabid, vocal fanbase. The two camps involved parted ways in a manner that the fanboys and enthusiasts didn’t care for, and they let Spencer have it. Spencer also released a pedal that was very similar to a flagship product of the company he was building for shortly after the separation. Torches and pitchforks followed. He wasn’t appreciative or deserving of the sort of commentary he got about this and hasn’t posted here since 2015. The thread outlining this is linked below.

3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

Wow. Thanks for the informative post. I’m sorry that that happened. I think I can guess who this was from. It’s always amazing to me how some people try to turn music into a competitive sport....

 

[cxcxcx]

Wow. Thanks for the informative post. I’m sorry that that happened. I think I can guess who this was from. It’s always amazing to me how some people try to turn music into a competitive sport....

Just my view of things but likely close to the truth. I own and use both DG and 3 Leaf stuff. If someone were to walk up to me and say my pedals are garbage, I dismiss them as a deluded and confused person that is totally missing the point. Maybe I’m doing this wrong , but it seems like life is too short and precious to define your life mission and reason for being by what brands of musical equipment you prefer.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Just my view of things but likely close to the truth. I own and use both DG and 3 Leaf stuff. If someone were to walk up to me and say my pedals are garbage, I dismiss them as a deluded and confused person that is totally missing the point. Maybe I’m doing this wrong , but it seems like life is too short and precious to define your life mission and reason for being by what brands of musical equipment you prefer.

Imagine Pino Palladino or John Paul Jones spending hours of their day online, trashing people’s gear choices hahah

 

[Stubb]

In America we often use brand allegiance as a proxy for personality and it's lame.

 

[cxcxcx]

Imagine Pino Palladino or John Paul Jones spending hours of their day online, trashing people’s gear choices hahah

You mean they don’t?

 

[Dr Greenthumb]

Spencer fell victim to the rampant fanboy behavior for certain brands that many posters exhibit here. This forum is pretty good at that, along with doing the self-deputized music retail business police thing.

Spencer was building product for another well-known entity in the industry with an association with aggressive music and a rabid, vocal fanbase. The two camps involved parted ways in a manner that the fanboys and enthusiasts didn’t care for, and they let Spencer have it. Spencer also released a pedal that was very similar to a flagship product of the company he was building for shortly after the separation. Torches and pitchforks followed. He wasn’t appreciative or deserving of the sort of commentary he got about this and hasn’t posted here since 2015. The thread outlining this is linked below.

3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

While I agree that Spencer didn't get a fair shake at defending himself because people went all pitchforks on him, that was 5-6 years ago. It didn't run him out of business back then. It's a bummer how it played out though that's for sure and I think even before the falling out it affected the 3Leaf trajectory..

Obviously being a single man operation will limit the possible output and Covid sure didn't help. But moving to exclusively made enclosures and knobs and all the extra he put into the design holds him back.. He had a killer preamp, gone. Killer comp, gone. Re-did the Proton 4 times? 5? The Groove Regulator went thru 5 redesigns? Octabvre? 3? The Little Black Box big tease fell flat I think.. You're Doom had 3 redesigns? He kind of spread himself thin doing all that. Like @Killing Floor said, it wasn't hard to see this was a tough act to keep up.

He put a lot into every pedal made and I really believe the quality speaks for itself. It's too bad that it looks like it might be done for now.

 

[Bassgeer]

Looks like the site is still functional for me. He hasn't used (or at least updated) the 3Leaf facebook page for several years now. I bought the original Doom right when it came out and have been loving it since, hands down my favorite pedal of any I've played. I desperately want to upgrade to the Doom 2, and until supply issues resolve I am hunting for a used one. I purchased one of the Anima onboard preamps from him in February for a bass I will be building later this year.

The whole Darkglass vs 3Leaf issue was blown way out of proportion by the Darkglass fanboys, at least publicly Doug stayed clear of the whole thing (which I think was a classy move on his part). The amount of hate Spencer received is really ironic considering some of the current favorite builders on Talkbass have a good chunk of their offerings that are just tweaked clones of classic circuits. To be clear, I'm not knocking anyone by any means, I think there is a big market for products that are an improvement or new twist on a classic design. And just for the record I also use Darkglass gear; my main tone is courtesy of the B7K.

I think that the custom enclosures really set 3leaf apart, the bent steel enclosures are a classy look, and shouldn't be that difficult to source; any company with a press brake and laser cutter could bang those out no problem. The custom machined enclosure for the Chromatron is an odd choice, as it seems to have given him much more trouble sourcing. I think the main holdup is electronic components, as many builders seem to be having the same problems.

Also it is worth keeping in mind, the pandemic and economic climate that has come with it has put more pressure on a lot of people, and we don't know his personal circumstances. Like some other small builders he may have another job and makes pedals on the side... I hope he is ok, and will be able to keep making pedals.

Oh, and I believe the little black box was a one-off run limited to only 99 units; at the time he had talked about occasionally doing different limited circuits like that but it never went any further than that.

***edit*** I just tried his site and it is down.... Damn... Hope he is ok

 

[Killing Floor]

I think Spencer kinda cornered himself by having specially made enclosures and knobs and such.. That's definitely a problem when supply chains are as disrupted as they are now.

I also think rehashing the same ~3 designs is not a great idea if you're looking to grow. Maybe he didn't really want to make others effects than filters.. Great products though. I still love my GR2 all these years later.

The bad blood with DG probably didn't help either..

Perhaps we're jumping to conclusion too fast. I hope Spencer's alright at least..

Me too. I love my Octabvre.

 

[jdjk7]

thanks.... I really hope to see him continue to produce pedals. The Chromatron is literally THE BEST I’ve ever tried.

I have both of them and can confirm that the Proton is basically the same but stripped down. Chromatron goes on my full board, Proton goes on my mini board.

 

[cxcxcx]

While I agree that Spencer didn't get a fair shake at defending himself because people went all pitchforks on him, that was 5-6 years ago. It didn't run him out of business back then. It's a bummer how it played out though that's for sure and I think even before the falling out it affected the 3Leaf trajectory..

My previous remarks were about the smoke Spencer got from this forum 5-6 years ago, not a commentary on his current dormancy. I agree that it pretty much has to be from the one-man band status along with Covid concerns.
It’s a drag when stuff like this happens to an outfit that makes such high-quality products, especially when the overall quality, gig-worthiness, and reliability of almost all bass gear is not where it should be.

 

[TrevorG]

Been wanting a Doom 2 for synthy tones, so I hope he’s still going. Is there another pedal out there that does the same sound?

Try Source Audio's Spectrum or C4.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Try Source Audio's Spectrum or C4.

I got a c4, because I heard how great it was, and also how complicated it was. Yep, it’s great, and complicated. Although I’m sure it’s possible, I haven’t gotten a rich and useful filter sound out of the c4 yet, where it’s almost impossible to not get one with the Proton....

 

[TrevorG]

I got a c4, because I heard how great it was, and also how complicated it was. Yep, it’s great, and complicated. Although I’m sure it’s possible, I haven’t gotten a rich and useful filter sound out of the c4 yet, where it’s almost impossible to not get one with the Proton....

I have the Spectrum and can also see the potential. That said, I don’t think it’s an easy sound to get. Had a Mothership 2 which had all the right ingredients but didn’t make the grade. Still not convinced 3 Leaf’s version actually nails it.

 

[MisticoRitualista]

3leaf site isn't working for me either... doubt it has anything to do w/ the DG drama from several yrs ago. 3leaf products are well praised & there doesn't seem to be any dwindling of consumer interest but as stated Spencer's last update did mention challenging personal issues so I hope he is doing well all things considered.

If anyone has a chromatron they're nterested in selling I'm on the hunt for one lol

 

[mmbongo]

Spencer and Doug were partners at some point around 2013-15. I don't have first hand knowledge of the whole deal but I believe there was a falling out between Spencer and Doug. I'd have to guess that took the wind out of Spencer's sails. I know he stopped posting here after that.. Had he been focusing on 3Leaf and not dabble with Darkglass at that time, 3Leaf might be more vibrant today..

Actually Spencer stopped posting because of the Pike Vulcan backlash and fallout.

 

[Bassist30]

A business may go through many more stages than desired. Lets hope its not family or personal problems. If he wants to continue his business all the best. If not we should thank him for the years his products were being made.

 

[two fingers]

In America we often use brand allegiance as a proxy for personality and it's lame.

We use EVERYTHING as a proxy for personality....and an excuse to pick a fight. And, yes, it's lame.

 

[groooooove]

I actually just recently went to the site and it was working, but everything was sold out and all that.

In what must be the "early days," I bought one of the first.. 10 (?) proton prototypes when spencer first was launching them. I had gigged with a vintage mutron for years so I felt I had valuable experience and feedback for him. This must have been around... 2010?

The filter was great and I remember the process being cool. spencer really had a fire in him to give us (bass players) that sound that we all agreed had never "really" been duplicated. I really respected his mission and how he delivered.

I may be remembering this wrong but I believe we also spoke on the phone about feedback/how the unit was performing.

anyway, since then I always knew what that dude was up to really was special. he's also a hell of a player. doesn't matter, but he is.

hoping for a happy ending to this - hopefully he's just had trouble sourcing parts and has laid low since he can't produce anything?