3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

[Romain909]

And your guess was correct!

Yup
Spencer actually just sent me an invoice for the Proton and Octabvre I have on hold. I just checked the price he listed
By the way, allowing international customers to hold shipment is nice actually. Shipping is $50 every time. This way, we pay it once and save $100.

I am happy most of ye managed to get one today ! Congratulation.

 

[gonzkal]

Yup
Spencer actually just sent me an invoice for the Proton and Octabvre I have on hold. I just checked the price he listed
By the way, allowing international customers to hold shipment is nice actually. Shipping is $50 every time. This way, we pay it once and save $100.

I am happy most of ye managed to get one today ! Congratulation.

Aha, so it wasn't really a guess, you had some insider information!
... So... how much will the Octabvre cost?

 

[Romain909]

2:00 PM for me, I was lucky I could be around to try snap it up. E-mail confirmation from 3 Leaf at 2:01pm.

I'm impatient, so didn't put a hold on this pedal for another one to save on shipping.
But wondering if maybe I should have. Anyone international holding their pedal for a future release?

I asked to have all three pedals when I ordered the DOOM2. Most important pedals to me were the DOOM2 and Octabvre. Since holding it means you are guaranteed to have them, I am fine waiting. Managing to place an order was the hardest here.

I eventually received the Doom2 early by mistake but the 2 others should ship in September (IMO) considering the Octabvre is the August release. I have been building this pedalboard for over a year and a half, what's waiting until September ?

On a side note, I am expecting later batches to be easier to get, since many of us won't buy the same pedal multiple times, me included, except if a finish is really MUCH better than the previous ones so far. I am still very curious about the upcoming finishes ...
-RED Doom2 looks amazing. Red makes sense, most intense color for the most intense effect.
-Royal Proton kind of makes sense too. I associate Funk to purple for some reason.
-What's gonna be the Octabvre's color ? I would love a deep blue one ! To me, Blue kind of feels obvious, unlike orange, Red, or Yellow. I can't explain how I associate sounds to colors however.

What's your guess on the next Octabvre finish ?

 

[Romain909]

Aha, so it wasn't really a guess, you had some insider information!
... So... how much will the Octabvre cost?

Same price, $333, but I would not consider it is the public price yet, it is still a little early. If a supplier increases its prices in the meantime, the price will rise.

 

[rev_D]

Spencer’s exact-timed drops or Josh’s day-but-no-time approach, which do we prefer?

It was only a couple of years ago I bought my Doom 2 which was calmly sitting there in stock. How times have changed!

 

[oomo]

Spencer’s exact-timed drops or Josh’s day-but-no-time approach, which do we prefer?

I think I'd just prefer a waiting list to be honest - I've missed out on all the 3leaf drops and 2/3 of the Broughton drops I was after. It gets a bit tiring keeping up with dates/times of drops and waking up crazy early (since I'm not US-based) only to be disappointed.

But...it is what it is, so I can't really complain, and they're luxury items to me anyway

 

[rev_D]

I think I'd just prefer a waiting list to be honest - I've missed out on all the 3leaf drops and 2/3 of the Broughton drops I was after. It gets a bit tiring keeping up with dates/times of drops and waking up crazy early (since I'm not US-based) only to be disappointed.

But...it is what it is, so I can't really complain, and they're luxury items to me anyway

No complaints here either. It's a curious state of affairs but shows huge demand for two great builders, so more power to them!

 

[Romain909]

There is no perfect method. Each has advantages and drawbacks

Fixed date and time means you have to be fast, it's easy to miss, international customers get to wake up at night but if you get one, you'll receive it quickly.

Fixed date but no time : very random, technically more fair. But it can be frustrating to refresh the page 10293 times a day. The smarter ones will monitor the page every minute and get notified once it changes.

Waiting list is the best to guarantee every one to have one, but you must accept to wait a LOT of time in some cases. It is not very handy for the builder however. Following preorders is harder than sending everything all at once.

I would say the current method is very nice since there are 3 batches of each.

 

[Snaxster]

I think I'd just prefer a waiting list to be honest - I've missed out on all the 3leaf drops and 2/3 of the Broughton drops I was after. It gets a bit tiring keeping up with dates/times of drops and waking up crazy early (since I'm not US-based) only to be disappointed.

But...it is what it is, so I can't really complain, and they're luxury items to me anyway

Yes, a waiting list would be better and perhaps more fair.

I am in the US. But it's the same thing for me, relative to European makers: Drolo, Pladask Elektrisk, etc.

Although I could complain, it would make no difference. So instead, I am not going to play this game anymore.

Reasons for makers' decision to use this method vary. For some it truly is cottage industry. For others, like Spence, it is an adaptation to a business model diminished by adversity. But the negative outcomes for buyers are always the same, including speculative resale.

As a buyer, I'm done with it.

 

[labeledbass]

No way to know this, but you have to wonder how many buyers are actual musicians verse opportunist. For multiple reasons, its so easy for outsiders to see these as an investment now.

 

[Stubb]

If he keeps releasing 100 pedals a month consistently, demand is going to go down over time. The market for these isn't huge. Another 400 Protons in the wild in a calendar year is going to put a huge dent in resale gouging.

I wonder of Spencer has anything new in the works. He has three sweet pedals. He has another he hasn't made in a few years . . .

 

[Sugarbear08]

Spencer’s exact-timed drops or Josh’s day-but-no-time approach, which do we prefer?

It was only a couple of years ago I bought my Doom 2 which was calmly sitting there in stock. How times have changed!

Of the two options, I prefer Josh's approach as it seems to mitigate the "rush the stage" quality of the recent 3 leaf releases. In other words, I feel like I actually might have a chance to score a broughton when I make the attempt. The speed with which the 3 leaf devices sell out is dizzying to me... in fact, its discouraging enough that I haven't even made a play for a 3 leaf device.

 

[Sugarbear08]

Of the two options, I prefer Josh's approach as it seems to mitigate the "rush the stage" quality of the recent 3 leaf releases. In other words, I feel like I actually might have a chance to score a broughton when I make the attempt. The speed with which the 3 leaf devices sell out is dizzying to me... in fact, its discouraging enough that I haven't even made a play for a 3 leaf device.

I must add: the timing of the broughton drops works well with my lifestyle in the eastern time zone of the U.S. I'm an early riser and the drops tend to land before 8 am. That said, I realize this is pretty ideal when it comes to scoring broughton devices and it would be a different dynamic were I to reside elsewhere in the world. Alternatively, my vantage is exceedingly biased to Josh's methods. I've come to imagine that Josh gets up around the same time as me and hits "go" on the drops once he's got the coffee poured.

 

[Erithon]

That's a lot of hoping. Why does it have to be this way? Why can't Spence just let Darkplace or Keeley do the manufacturing?

It seems to me that Spencer cares deeply about the physical product and likes being involved in every detail. Consider, for example, how he talks about vibrancy and details of the screen printing and Royal color for this latest Proton and how he talked about the quality and long-term potency for the milled enclosures for all the 2023 releases when he first announced them. The size of the enclosures is another example: he's not just using a Hammond 125B like everyone else; he opts for something sleeker and smaller and, to my knowledge, unique. I've heard the Chromatron was not re-released because he couldn't continue to source the right enclosure. He certainly could not offer all these different colored finished if he outsourced and/or scaled-up and, I'd guess, could not source these enclosures in the necessary quantities; the fact that he does not strongly suggests he doesn't want to. He likes keeping things small. And remember, this isn't his full-time thing. He also enjoys spending plenty of time playing the bass and being active in the mountains.

 

[Snaxster]

It seems to me that Spencer cares deeply about the physical product and likes being involved in every detail. Consider, for example, how he talks about vibrancy and details of the screen printing and Royal color for this latest Proton and how he talked about the quality and long-term potency for the milled enclosures for all the 2023 releases when he first announced them. The size of the enclosures is another example: he's not just using a Hammond 125B like everyone else; he opts for something sleeker and smaller and, to my knowledge, unique. I've heard the Chromatron was not re-released because he couldn't continue to source the right enclosure. He certainly could not offer all these different colored finished if he outsourced and/or scaled-up and, I'd guess, could not source these enclosures in the necessary quantities; the fact that he does not strongly suggests he doesn't want to. He likes keeping things small. And remember, this isn't his full-time thing. He also enjoys spending plenty of time playing the bass and being active in the mountains.

Acknowledged. But those white label manufactories can do it all.

This isn't about the size of his business, but the constraints that govern what his business can produce. If he wants to guard his time for other pursuits, what better way than to farm out the production to a specialist manufacturer?

 

[PWolverine]

If he keeps releasing 100 pedals a month consistently, demand is going to go down over time. The market for these isn't huge. Another 400 Protons in the wild in a calendar year is going to put a huge dent in resale gouging.

Absolutely. At the moment there is a scarcity, but with a number of releases things should hopefully start to get more reasonable.

 

[Romain909]

what better way than to farm out the production to a specialist manufacturer?

The long term goal is not ALWAYS to grow as big as possible, to be as efficient as possible, to make as profit as possible.

What if he just enjoys doing it himself and being involved in every part of the production ? Of course, that would imply he can't produce 100 000 units. But is producing that much the goal after all ?
I don't think so.

 

[labeledbass]

Other people use the enclosures he does, I can't remember where I saw them, but they're out there (the 2 piece steel). His comment about screen printing though, I'm not sure whom he works with but I have UV printers that will run laps around any screen job. When you get labels this small, you can't tell the difference, except on the invoice when you pay... There's something to be said about inhouse labeling.

I'm willing to bet he's invested in this enclosure, heavily and the inside design, to the point where financially it wouldn't make any sense to re tool and let someone else manufacture it. Not sure how many have taken one of the standard "3" pedals he offers apart, but even the stomp switch design is tailored to the enclosure, and board(s), it's really neat looking, but I would never see him veering away from that.

 

[Mighty Thumb]

The long term goal is not ALWAYS to grow as big as possible, to be as efficient as possible, to make as profit as possible.

What if he just enjoys doing it himself and being involved in every part of the production ? Of course, that would imply he can't produce 100 000 units. But is producing that much the goal after all ?
I don't think so.

Indeed. Having worked in small business my entire working life, there is more to it than quantity of widgets produced. In fact, for many small businesses that is never the goal. Growing a business is exceptionally difficult and risky. If Spencer has found the pace that works for him, then congratulations. While it’s frustrating on the consumer side, and I’ve been frustrated by it, I get it from the business side. This is a great book that examines the topic of growing, or not growing, a small business. Required reading in my current position. https://www.amazon.com/Small-Giants...d=1691167138&sprefix=small+gia,aps,179&sr=8-2

 

[Snaxster]

The long term goal is not ALWAYS to grow as big as possible, to be as efficient as possible, to make as profit as possible.

What if he just enjoys doing it himself and being involved in every part of the production ? Of course, that would imply he can't produce 100 000 units. But is producing that much the goal after all ?
I don't think so.

To be clear: I like and support Spence. So yes, "what if" n'importe quoi, if it makes him happy.

My suggestions and critique pertained to the outcomes of his chosen model. Concretely, Spence will do his thing and I'll do mine. Each will be happy in his respective chosen path.