410 with a 115. Why so much hate????

[WardEarth]

I'd recommend saving up for or searching for a deal on a excellent quality cabinet. Quality speakers are a wonderful thing to have. I did what many ppl do, keep buying gear and working your way up to something good, but you end up spending a lot more money. Thank me later.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Phase cancellation and power mismatch.
I used a 4x10 & 1x15 rig at the request of a band leader on a tour.
He was always bitching that my tone didn't have enough bass so he wanted me to crank it, while the soundguy agreed with me that my bass was absolutely slamming.
Turns out the BL was sitting in a bassless pocket due to phase cancellation.
BL was a lot happier when I unplugged the 1x15 and just used the 4x10.

Saw a friend's band play a small venue with PA for vocals only.
He ran a 4x10 & 1x15. Matched brands and lines, supposed to play well together.
Standing directly in front of him for the length of the venue, he sounded massive.
Move 5 feet to the right or left, his low end disappeared.

Matched cabs (2 4x10's, 2 1x15's, etc.) don't have those problems.

And power mismatch.
As someone else pointed out, a 4x10 can handle a lot more power than a 1x15 because it divides the signal equally amongst 4 drivers instead of just the 1.
800 watt amp sends 400 watts to each box.
Each 10" gets just 100 watts, which they can handle, no sweat.
The 1x15 gets all 400 watts, which exceeds its power handling.
It's gonna blow.
When it blows, it changes the impedance that your amp sees, which may drop the speaker load impedance below what the amp can handle, threatening to fry your amp.

Matched cabs handle the same power load, so either they all blow, or none of them do.

If you want a big powerful stack with almost zero phase issues and guaranteed not to blow, vertically stack 2 2x10's.
It's the same height as an 8x10, weighs less than an 8x10 or 2 4x10's or a 4x10 & 1x15. The vertical array minimizes phase cancellation and it's more than powerful enough to do just about anything you need it to do.

 

[DigitalMan]

Personally I think the bandwagon on this front is a bit overwhelmed. Been using a 15+2x10 for 15 years. And the 2x10 goes on the bottom.
The cabs are matched, so they were designed to go together.

I think the bigger issue is when you mix brands/series which is perfectly understandable that the different characteristics of mixed brands would cause problems.

Studies suggest that vertically stacked drivers of the same type are less problematic of phase issues and will give a better sound as every driver is designed the same and working together.

I think a 1x15 and 2x10 rig has a much better potential for reasonable power distribution across speakers than a 1x15 and 4x10 rig, assuming same impedance for all enclosures.

Alternatively, an 8 ohm 1x15 cab paired with a 4ohm 4x10 cab would be equally good for power distribution assuming the amp can go below a 4ohm load safely.

 

[somebrains]

If you haven't helped your buddy load a 90+lb speaker stand for his 410, go try it.

 

[Sixgunn]

I get told to turn down with a single 2X10, even in larger rooms.

 

[skidmarkbass]

My Markbass rig has a 410 and 115, I bought it 10 years ago at GC before I started reading about matching cabs. To my ears it sounds great and has served me well. For most small gigs however, I bring only the 410. I have been thinking about finding a used 115 and messing around with (2) 115 cabs.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

410 cabs used to have lower power handling, but speakers have improved to the point where a 410 can handle 1000W but a 115 is limited to ~400W. So, you can end up in a situation where the 410 isn’t living up to its potential or you’re over powering your 115. But if you know what you’re doing and can keep the power levels in check, it can sound great. Nowadays, a 210 / 115 is probably a better combo. Checkout Mesa’s Subway.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

I have a GK 410 that I like to chain up with my acoustic 115 and I dig the way they sound together better than apart punchy and with nice bottom without being boomy. I run a Speakon from the head to the 410 and a speaker cable out of the 410 to the 15. No way to know but to wire it up and turn it on. FWIW I think my bass amp (GK700RB) enjoys 4 ohms better than 8. I like my Ampeg 610HLF better than the other 2 chained though.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

The 115 will be very underpowered to handle the 8 ohm load compared to the 410. Maybe sell the 410 and get a 210 x 115? If you want to go that way. If you do move ahead with a 115, make sure you read the power ratings. And maybe stick with the same brand? I dunno. Most likely though if you're careful it should be ok. Just don't try and blast with it or you'll blow your 115 pretty quick. Good luck!

 

[StraffordMike]

If the 410 and the 115 have the same impedance, each cabinet will receive 50% of the watts.
So if your head was running at 500 Watts, each cab gets 250. That means 250W go into the 15" speaker while each 10" speaker only sees 62,5W.

This should explain why the 15 is in danger.



Apart from that, what do you hope to gain? More bass, because the speaker of the 15 is bigger?

And if it’s a 15” capable of 400 Watts?

 

[Josh Kneisel]

And if it’s a 15” capable of 400 Watts?

That was what I was thinking... If that is the case then running my GK 700RB (I think 540 watts max running full range at 4ohms) is sending 270 watts tops to a 410 that can handle 800w and a 115 that can handle 450w there is zero possibility of overworking the 115... I mean unless I am missing something... Also, I can't imagine needing to push everything my head can give into my cabinets...

 

[Jscriv]

I made it through most responses so far, I'll finish later wanted to make an appearance.
To those who broke down surface area/ air movement thats what I was looking. The logic behind why people generally advise against it.
The biggest problem being I haven't ever been in a music store with a solid selection of cabs. Let alone two matching cabinets. All in all it seems like adding a 15 is a big old waste of time and won't really do anything other than cost some money.

Someone wondered why I wanted to expand if I like what I have now......GAS? Maybe there was a way to make it better? I plan on buying another head. Which means more cabinets.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

 

[el murdoque]

And if it’s a 15” capable of 400 Watts?

Then there will be no problem of overpowering the 15.
With that item checked off on the list, you can move on to the next: SPL.
If you compare a 410 and a 115 of equal quality, the 410 usually has a lot more SPL.
As an example, let's compare the GK CX115 and CX410. Same brand, same line - same width and depth, they even stack nicely with the fitting corners. The CX115 claims a meager 91dB, while the CX410 is boasting 102dB.
To the human ear, volume doubles roughly every ten decibel. So the 410 in the stack will be twice as loud, which would be what I call a bad match.

Ok, the GKs have a bigger difference in SPL than others may.
You could couple a very high class, high watt rated high SPL 115 with a mediocre 410 to get a good match.

Which will lead us to one of the next points on the list. So let's say that the system works as intended and the 15 delivers the bass while the 410 does the punch. Your next gig is in that smallish bar where the police is bound to show up once the volume is past the threshold, which is, sadly, quite low.
The drummer will have to keep his volume in check. And there's absolutely no need to bring a full stack. In fact, the bar owner does not allow super big amplifiers. So it'll be the amp head and one cabinet. So which will stay at home - the one with the punch or the one with the bass?

 

[Josh Kneisel]

Then there will be no problem of overpowering the 15.
With that item checked off on the list, you can move on to the next: SPL.
If you compare a 410 and a 115 of equal quality, the 410 usually has a lot more SPL.
As an example, let's compare the GK CX115 and CX410. Same brand, same line - same width and depth, they even stack nicely with the fitting corners. The CX115 claims a meager 91dB, while the CX410 is boasting 102dB.
To the human ear, volume doubles roughly every ten decibel. So the 410 in the stack will be twice as loud, which would be what I call a bad match.

Ok, the GKs have a bigger difference in SPL than others may.
You could couple a very high class, high watt rated high SPL 115 with a mediocre 410 to get a good match.

Which will lead us to one of the next points on the list. So let's say that the system works as intended and the 15 delivers the bass while the 410 does the punch. Your next gig is in that smallish bar where the police is bound to show up once the volume is past the threshold, which is, sadly, quite low.
The drummer will have to keep his volume in check. And there's absolutely no need to bring a full stack. In fact, the bar owner does not allow super big amplifiers. So it'll be the amp head and one cabinet. So which will stay at home - the one with the punch or the one with the bass?

Why would I bring that much cabinet to a smallish bar? Most I would need is the 410. Dude asked if it would work. The answer is it can, but not always the way you think. I don't expect to get punch from one cab and boom from the other, but they do sound fine together.

 

[Mili]

based on the (false) belief that you primarily get mids and highs from the 10s and so you need a 15 for lows.

So what's the benefit of 15? Just using alone?

 

[craigie]

Phase cancellation and power mismatch.
I used a 4x10 & 1x15 rig at the request of a band leader on a tour.
He was always bitching that my tone didn't have enough bass so he wanted me to crank it, while the soundguy agreed with me that my bass was absolutely slamming.
Turns out the BL was sitting in a bassless pocket due to phase cancellation.
BL was a lot happier when I unplugged the 1x15 and just used the 4x10.

Saw a friend's band play a small venue with PA for vocals only.
He ran a 4x10 & 1x15. Matched brands and lines, supposed to play well together.
Standing directly in front of him for the length of the venue, he sounded massive.
Move 5 feet to the right or left, his low end disappeared.

Matched cabs (2 4x10's, 2 1x15's, etc.) don't have those problems.

And power mismatch.
As someone else pointed out, a 4x10 can handle a lot more power than a 1x15 because it divides the signal equally amongst 4 drivers instead of just the 1.
800 watt amp sends 400 watts to each box.
Each 10" gets just 100 watts, which they can handle, no sweat.
The 1x15 gets all 400 watts, which exceeds its power handling.
It's gonna blow.
When it blows, it changes the impedance that your amp sees, which may drop the speaker load impedance below what the amp can handle, threatening to fry your amp.

Matched cabs handle the same power load, so either they all blow, or none of them do.

If you want a big powerful stack with almost zero phase issues and guaranteed not to blow, vertically stack 2 2x10's.
It's the same height as an 8x10, weighs less than an 8x10 or 2 4x10's or a 4x10 & 1x15. The vertical array minimizes phase cancellation and it's more than powerful enough to do just about anything you need it to do.

This is good advice.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

I don't know if I would ever use it at a gig since the 610 is easier to deal with and sounds great, but I do like how it sounds in my rehearsal space.

 

[el murdoque]

Why would I bring that much cabinet to a smallish bar? Most I would need is the 410. Dude asked if it would work. The answer is it can, but not always the way you think. I don't expect to get punch from one cab and boom from the other, but they do sound fine together.

The OP did not ask if it worked, the OP asked why people advise against 410 and 115. I gave my reasons.

There is an advantage to use two identical cabinets. You can remove one and still have the same sound, only less of it.

When you make mixed drivers work and remove one, it'll sound different.
In most cases that might not be a problem since you can EQ the single cab so it gets the job done.
But then, where are the advantages of mixed drivers?

 

[Josh Kneisel]

It's what you have lying around and want to see how it sounds?