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410 with a 115. Why so much hate????

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jscriv, Jun 12, 2018.


  1. Jscriv

    Jscriv

    Feb 3, 2017
    I'm pretty new to the cabinet and head game. Always been a combo guy. I currently have a an acoustic bn410 (I know it's poopoo but it was super cheap) and I've been thinking of pairing an acoustic bn115 with it. Turns out the neo series really don't sound that bad.

    Now this is just for fun to see if I like the multi cabinet rig and itll only cost me around 400 bucks between the two cabinets. One was on clearance and I'll pick the second up used. If I do like it in going to go to a better, preferably American made product.

    I have noticed everyone seems to advise against 410/115 combo. Why? Teach me oh wonderful talkbass members. GAS is taking hold and I wanna buy stuff!
     
    Pbassmanca and Ellery like this.
  2. nolezmaj

    nolezmaj Supporting Member

    Sep 22, 2011
    Europe
    Try it, maybe you will like how it sounds. I had a 410&115 cabs at my rehersal place and I hated how they sounded together. Every step further or aside from the cabs, sound changed from normal to boomy and back. So, I would unplug 410 and just go with 115.
     
  3. murphy

    murphy

    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    It might work for you....just watch the 15 is not overpowered and gets damaged as 410 is usually louder and will hide the sounds of the 15 struggling to keep up
    people here recommend getting another 410
    or a 210 has a better match cone surface area to a 15

    25 years ago I preferred my hartke XL410 with a 115XL than both my 410XLs together
    But since..with Eden...Bergantino ...Epifani....and SVT810 cabs I prefer not to mix a 410 with a 15....and always unplug the GK 15 from the 410 at rehearsal
     
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  4. Jscriv

    Jscriv

    Feb 3, 2017
    Like I said, cabinet newbie here. How could the 15 be over powered??

    Anyone and everyone feel free to nerd out and really break it down. TB has taught me so much this way
     
  5. chris_b

    chris_b

    Jun 2, 2007
    Why do you think you need a 115?

    Do you have a problem with the 410, or do you just want a stack, or . . . . why?

    If you put a 115 with your 410 you'll have a lot of weight and woodwork but IMO you can get a much better sound with a lot less these days.
     
  6. Burwabit

    Burwabit Likes guitars that tune good and firm feelin women Supporting Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Lubbock, TX
    Assuming both cabs are 8 ohms, they’ll each get same amount of power. The 410 will divide that power among 4 speakers. The 15 will get it all... 4 times the power each 10 is taking. So it’s being overly powered relative to the other speakers. 15s don’t tend to do well in this scenario.
     
  7. Personally I think the bandwagon on this front is a bit overwhelmed. Been using a 15+2x10 for 15 years. And the 2x10 goes on the bottom.
    The cabs are matched, so they were designed to go together.

    I think the bigger issue is when you mix brands/series which is perfectly understandable that the different characteristics of mixed brands would cause problems.

    Studies suggest that vertically stacked drivers of the same type are less problematic of phase issues and will give a better sound as every driver is designed the same and working together.
     
  8. el murdoque

    el murdoque

    Mar 10, 2013
    Germany
    If the 410 and the 115 have the same impedance, each cabinet will receive 50% of the watts.
    So if your head was running at 500 Watts, each cab gets 250. That means 250W go into the 15" speaker while each 10" speaker only sees 62,5W.

    This should explain why the 15 is in danger.



    Apart from that, what do you hope to gain? More bass, because the speaker of the 15 is bigger?
     
  9. el murdoque

    el murdoque

    Mar 10, 2013
    Germany
    So you're saying that the front against mixing 410 and 115 is overwhelmed because your 210 and 115 work?

    I think the main issue is that the 410 has roughly twice the speaker surface than a 115.
    A 210, however, has half of twice the surface.
     
  10. JRA

    JRA my words = opinion Supporting Member

    https://www.talkbass.com/members/burwabit.190267/ and others have you covered re: and explanation.

    fact is: if you don't plan on cranking the volume to max (or otherwise, stupidly high) = many cabinet combinations can get you more 'bass', more overall volume effect, more 'coverage', yada yada. what it won't get you = roughly equal power to each driver. so: if you are level headed with your new knowledge it may work out just fine and to your satisfaction.

    good luck mixing and playing with your cabinets/sound! :thumbsup:
     
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  11. Lobster11

    Lobster11 Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    Good question. The idea of pairing a 4x10 with a 1x15 is usually based on the (false) belief that you primarily get mids and highs from the 10s and so you need a 15 for lows.This simply isn't true of modern full-range speaker cabinets. You can easily find very deep-sounding 4x10s and tinny sounding 1x15s. Find a cab of either type that you like and pair it with a matching one.

    And, despite the cabinets getting equal power, the 15 won't be nearly as loud as the 4x10 because the latter moves so much more air. The speaker in the 15 will be working much harder but you won't hear it -- especially if it's on the bottom -- so (1) you might not notice when it's ready to blow and (2) it won't really be contributing much to your overall sound anyway.
     
  12. InhumanResource

    InhumanResource

    Dec 28, 2012
    It's not hate so much as practicality. There's also more experimentation needed when mixing soccer sizes unless you know the two you selected are designed to work together. Experimenting with cabinets mixes is expensive :). Sometimes the mixed driver thing can cause funky sounding results because they perform differently and not necessarily nicely with each other. But only you can tell by trying them it and seeing if you like what they do. Usually it is easier to just find a cab you like, then get another one if you want more horsepower. I find what happens here is what you get the sound you originally liked but pumped up with more of everything that made you enjoy it in the first place. Pretty sweet.

    If you like how your mixed cab rig sounds, then it's great. Just make sure you don't blow up your 15. Maybe put it on top of the stack so you can hear it better than the 410 in case it starts to break up.

    Whatever you do, try to find a way to test out whatever combination you are considering to hear everything together. No other way to know if you'll like it. I think that's the main reason people advise going the other way. It is easier to just double up on the same cab that you already know you like.
     
    BurtMacklinFBI likes this.
  13. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv
    He needs a 15" cabinet for the lows and a 4X10 for punchy mids! [/sarcasm]

    OP - the hate is all in your mind. All people are saying is that the best chance of a good sound is matching cabinets. Most of us have been brainwashed that you need 15's for lows and 10's for mids. No one says mixing cabinets CAN'T sound good. I get so tired of that same lie being told over and over again.
     
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  14. redwingxix

    redwingxix Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    detroit
    I ran a 210 rumble combo and 115 rumble cab and thought it sounded really muddy and undefined. returned the cab next day. maybe that's just with the fender gear but I hated the sound when the 115 was added.
     
    HolmeBass likes this.
  15. Basstigator

    Basstigator

    Sep 23, 2017
    ... I had that set up for a few months. Not only did the 4 10s weight a ton, they overpowered the 15 8 ohm and it just didn't sound good to me. I switched it out for 2 10s 4 ohm and have been happy ever since (Marshall DBS). Each box runs on a different power Amp channel ... Same Ampeg preamp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  16. Clark Dark

    Clark Dark

    Mar 3, 2005
    earth
    If you're wanting to prove concept just go into a music store and pair the 4x10 & 115 combination. Afterwards try a dual 4x10 combination. Try this, use a vented 4x10 with a sealed 4x10 (that's what I use), IME the vented cab delivers more bottom while the sealed cab has a better full range. The guys have given you the science.
     
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  17. A good combo is a 2X10 and 1X15. If you're going to mix cabs an speaker sizes than that setup works really well.
     
  18. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 29, 2008
    Colorado
    I convert 4 string Rickenbackers to 5 string basses.
    a 4x10 matches up better with a 2x15.

    A 1x15 matched up better with a 2x10
     
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  19. LeftyD

    LeftyD Supporting Member

    Feb 22, 2017
    Las Vegas
    Always liked the look, so when this was for sale on CL for only $600 last year I had to try it.
    Sounds great! DSCN3214.JPG
     
  20. bassdude51

    bassdude51 Supporting Member

    Nov 1, 2008
    Central Ohio
    If you can afford it, try out a Bergantino NV115 and skip the 4-10. Better yet, buy 2 , NV115s.

    Acme's Low B 210 sounds like a 15 inch cab and the 5" mid a tweeter cover your mids and highs.

    Avatar sells really nice and affordable bass cabs for you. Delivered to your door..........NO TAX!

    Bass – Avatar Speakers
     
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