Okay
Very interesting thoughts
Mixing speaker sizes seems to be not worth it after all
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4ohm Amp into four 8ohm cabs?
- Thread starter bassdude123
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- amp bass cabinet advice ohm
Okay
Very interesting thoughts
Mixing speaker sizes seems to be not worth it after all
My local trader only has small practice amps
Therefor i cant buy what sounds best :/
Everyone sharing there own experience really helps me a lot, to make a decision
Therefor i cant buy what sounds best :/
Everyone sharing there own experience really helps me a lot, to make a decision
Casters or a hand truck means you don't carry the weight at all. A hand truck with a 2x12, your amp, and any other equipment on it for one hand, and your bass in a case/gig bag in the other and you're doing your load-in with just one trip.
If it doesn't come with casters, or they are tiny furniture grade casters, outfit your cabinet with good ball bearing, 4", 600lb casters. It'll roll on just about any surface with ease, and makes it easy on the back.
I have one (link [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) that folds down to about 5cm wide and 75cm tall, and is rated to 70kg, that cost me $30. It's handles my Peavey TKO65 combo (1x15, about 25kg) with no problem. The fact it folds up is nice - easy to store at home and during a gig. Your local home improvement/hardware store should have something similar.
No i dont need four
As i was thinking about a 210 and a 212, i was wondering if splitting it all up would be better
Rule # 1. do not under any circumstance run a 4 ohm head at less than 4 ohms, doing so will let the magic smoke out.
Rule # 2. you can have more power than cabs can handle unless you turn master to 11 every time. you will hear when cabs can't take it.
Rule # 3. Mix cabs or do not mix cabs, I have used 2x10 + 1x12 and it sounded great, also 4x10 +1x15 it also sounded great. I also use 2- 1x12s and they sound great. as well as 2- 18" folded horns. just make sure the cabs are close in power rating and ohms. (use you ears)
Rule # 4 . don't violate rule#1 or you will be sorry and need a new head soon.
Rule # 2. you can have more power than cabs can handle unless you turn master to 11 every time. you will hear when cabs can't take it.
Rule # 3. Mix cabs or do not mix cabs, I have used 2x10 + 1x12 and it sounded great, also 4x10 +1x15 it also sounded great. I also use 2- 1x12s and they sound great. as well as 2- 18" folded horns. just make sure the cabs are close in power rating and ohms. (use you ears)
Rule # 4 . don't violate rule#1 or you will be sorry and need a new head soon.
You mentioned that you don't play metal and the largest crowd without PA support would be an indoor crowd of ~100. Personally, I would go with two quality 112 cabs rated at 8 ohms each. That makes practice easy with a single 112 and you can add another 112 if you need more volume.
Not sure where you are located - also not sure what your budget is. And it sounds like trying before buying is not an option. What would I do? I'd take a hard look at RevSound and consider 2-112 (8 ohm)cabinets. They are very lightweight and super high quality. One cabinet will be enough for practices and 2 will handle any size gig. I used to run a RevSound 210 cabinet with a Genzler 800 watt head, and it sounded great and would get louder than I ever needed. David Luke, the owner/builder, is super-knowledgeable and a very nice guy to work with. Perhaps call him (1-603-651-9800) and ask him for suggestions. Hemight steer you towards a 115 and a 112 - his cabs are designed to work well together.
Get two of these and you’ll be Golden, loud band or not, I used one with a fairly loud 5 piece band! Two of these =4 ohms.
2 speakers acoustic coupling is 6 db? I thougth 3 db, so in series it would be -3db for the electrical reason of the double of impedance, and + 3 db of acoustic coupling, so is the same
Just to clear up the myth (that the Trickfish Bullhead 1k is so powerful it must be plugged into 4 cabs, or else it will damage the equipment) here is a video, from the official Trickfish channel, of the Bullhead 1k into a single TF112 cabinet. This is a single 1x12" cabinet, 8 ohms, rated power handling 150w RMS (300w peak). Looks like he has the master volume around 9 o'clock. Sounds great, doesn't it? Trickfish wouldn't have this on their official channel, if it were dangerous to the equipment.
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RE: Loud Enough
That head with 2-10” or 2-12” cabs @ a 4 ohm load providing the all the low end for a band even for a 100 people indoor could be at the threshold of damage, especially if you play with a fair amount of low end. I find that when I get towards the end of that threshold, the sound becomes harsh.
With FOH support it would be fine, in fact a really good personal stage monitor. I have a 210 cab rated at 500 watts that is more than adequate for most indoor gigs with FOH. Outdoors, I’ll take a second cab.
One other thing to consider is cab efficiency. How many dBs you get out of each watt of power. If you are going to blend cabs it’s, pretty important that the efficiencies be pretty close or you could be in a situation where you really don’t hear the one that is less efficient.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
This assumes that the player has good judgement, common sense and reasonable expectations. This is not true of all players however, and the results are disappointment and often speaker failures.
A couple of points:
1. Series parallel is not difficult providing you attain the proper adapter cables. The amp has two speaker outs which are in parallel. Plug one series adapter into each output. Then plug two 8 ohm cabs into each series adapter, and series parallel is achieved and the total load is 8 ohms. It is important to be mindful of what you are doing and plug everything in properly, but it's not difficult.
I am not saying running series parallel is necessary a good idea...I am just saying it's not that hard if you have the adapters.
2. I believe the Trick Fish 1K really should be considered a 500W amp. Reference the manual which says it makes 1,000 peak and see post #28 for how this equals 500WRMS. I don't know of any other company using peak power ratings for their amps in lieu of RMS ratings.
I don't know how I can make this any more clear 1,000W peak is exactly the same as 500W RMS. Because Trickfish uses a peak rating, the amp is more equivalent to a GK MB500 rather than the MB800. However the Trickfish makes 1,000W peak at both 4 and 8 ohms. The MB500 is rated for 500WRMS at 4 ohms and 350W RMS at 8 ohms. The GK MB500's RMS ratings translate to 1,000W peak at 4 ohms and 700W peak at 8 ohms, so the Trickfish has the advantage at 8 ohms.
3. IMHO the best practice is for the speakers to be able to handle at least the RMS rating of the amp. So 600W power handling for the speakers would be pretty darn safe with a 500W. The question is whether the speakers will be loud enough. Pay attention to the sensitivity ratings of the cabs; higher is better.
4. Speaker ratings can be a bit confusing and misleading. Often the power rating is actually the RMS rating of the driver; in other words, the amount of power the voice coil can handle without burning out.
Unfortunately this does not tell you the mechanical power handling of the design below 100hz. Often the mechanical power handling for bass cabs and subwoofers is less than the RMS rating of the driver. The mechanical power handling depends on the driver's characteristics and also how the cab is tuned. So if you put the same driver in different boxes with different tunings, the mechanical power handling will vary.
5. Cabs may have four power ratings:
1. Series parallel is not difficult providing you attain the proper adapter cables. The amp has two speaker outs which are in parallel. Plug one series adapter into each output. Then plug two 8 ohm cabs into each series adapter, and series parallel is achieved and the total load is 8 ohms. It is important to be mindful of what you are doing and plug everything in properly, but it's not difficult.
I am not saying running series parallel is necessary a good idea...I am just saying it's not that hard if you have the adapters.
2. I believe the Trick Fish 1K really should be considered a 500W amp. Reference the manual which says it makes 1,000 peak and see post #28 for how this equals 500WRMS. I don't know of any other company using peak power ratings for their amps in lieu of RMS ratings.
I don't know how I can make this any more clear 1,000W peak is exactly the same as 500W RMS. Because Trickfish uses a peak rating, the amp is more equivalent to a GK MB500 rather than the MB800. However the Trickfish makes 1,000W peak at both 4 and 8 ohms. The MB500 is rated for 500WRMS at 4 ohms and 350W RMS at 8 ohms. The GK MB500's RMS ratings translate to 1,000W peak at 4 ohms and 700W peak at 8 ohms, so the Trickfish has the advantage at 8 ohms.
3. IMHO the best practice is for the speakers to be able to handle at least the RMS rating of the amp. So 600W power handling for the speakers would be pretty darn safe with a 500W. The question is whether the speakers will be loud enough. Pay attention to the sensitivity ratings of the cabs; higher is better.
4. Speaker ratings can be a bit confusing and misleading. Often the power rating is actually the RMS rating of the driver; in other words, the amount of power the voice coil can handle without burning out.
Unfortunately this does not tell you the mechanical power handling of the design below 100hz. Often the mechanical power handling for bass cabs and subwoofers is less than the RMS rating of the driver. The mechanical power handling depends on the driver's characteristics and also how the cab is tuned. So if you put the same driver in different boxes with different tunings, the mechanical power handling will vary.
5. Cabs may have four power ratings:
a. RMS Power is the long term average. AFAIK, this is determined by feeding the cab a complex waveform that has a 6dB crest factor that varies above and below the RMS value. Then the cab must survive for the amount of time determined in the standard.
b. Program or Music Power is generally 2X the RMS rating. This is the amount of power the cab can handle for short periods of time. It's measured as an RMS value rather than a peak value.
c. Peak Power is a translation of the cabs Program or Music Power. Although it looks like 2X the Program Power, its really the same power level; as discussed in post #28. So Peak Power doesn't really tell you anything more than the Program Power rating.
I think Peak Power is used partly because Crest factor is defined as the ratio of the peak value to the RMS value of the waveform. So a 6dB crest factor implies the peak rating is 8X the RMS rating. Personally I think Peak Power is confusing and misleading.
d. Mechanical Power is the amount of power a driver can take without exceeding it's excursion limits at low frequencies. Mesa posts more data on their bass cabs Mechanical Power ratings than any other company I can think of. AFAIK, Mechanical Power is also generally expressed as an RMS value.
b. Program or Music Power is generally 2X the RMS rating. This is the amount of power the cab can handle for short periods of time. It's measured as an RMS value rather than a peak value.
c. Peak Power is a translation of the cabs Program or Music Power. Although it looks like 2X the Program Power, its really the same power level; as discussed in post #28. So Peak Power doesn't really tell you anything more than the Program Power rating.
I think Peak Power is used partly because Crest factor is defined as the ratio of the peak value to the RMS value of the waveform. So a 6dB crest factor implies the peak rating is 8X the RMS rating. Personally I think Peak Power is confusing and misleading.
d. Mechanical Power is the amount of power a driver can take without exceeding it's excursion limits at low frequencies. Mesa posts more data on their bass cabs Mechanical Power ratings than any other company I can think of. AFAIK, Mechanical Power is also generally expressed as an RMS value.
Hi everyone,
I just bought the „Trickfish Bullhead 1k“ which is rated @4Ohm.
Now to the cabs:
Out of logistical reasons i thought about getting:
2x 110 instead of 210
2x 112 instead of 212
—-> this would be 4 8Ohm cabs
Is it possible to use 4 8Ohm cabs with the 4Ohm amp?
What are the downsides?
Im looking foreward to some replies
bassdude123
That amp can handle a 4 ohm load. Do not use a cab or combination of cabs that produce an impedance of less than 4 ohms. You will kill your new amp. There's a sticky here that describes ohms, watts and impedance. Read it and know it.
Logistically? You're better off with a cab that fits in your car and has wheels built in so you do not have to carry it. The Mesa Subway 215 comes to mind as a great solution for you. 4 ohms, built in wheels, smallish form factor, good power handling and light weight. I'm going to get some arguments here, but have never understood the idea that multiple smallish boxes makes for an easier load in. At that point, you're making multiple trips from your car to the gig. You would have to buy a dolly.
