5 string basses should be 35” scale

[Johnny L]

The single biggest solution though, is a fatter B string.

Yeah but it's a cryin' shame you can't point to at least a couple of them and brag, "Deez nuts here dropped an inch lower on account of the b."

Speaking of: there's a Hard Rock concert with a young bassist not the original bassist for Duran Duran playing a 34" Ernie Ball 5 string bass and his playing is downright booty shaking killer. It's maybe a 20+ year old concert.

 

[dkelley]

As an owner of both a b-string bass with a monsterous 35" scale and a regular 34" scale bass with no bragging rights to claim, I can tell you that extra inch is absolutely everything -- since to reduce the b-stringer to 34" would basically ruin it...being a fretted bass and all.

That would make the low b feel terrible I promise you!

I too am an owner of 35" and 34" basses. neck through high quality 34" and 35", and bolt on 35" and 34" basses, all 5 or 6 strings. Fretted and fretless.

The extra inch is literally nothing, to use the opposing term to your description. it makes zero difference to me that I notice in the stiffness or tension.

Tone issues? not at all... I only keep instruments that sound amazing and play great ... and every one of my basses is interchangeable for quality of tone. Type of tone, no, due to wood and electronics differences. But quality of tone? no difference. Each one is outstanding, and the scale length makes zero difference.

I wonder if part of the difference in our experiences is in strings and how we string them etc? I use light gauge strings, regardless of scale length.... the lighter the better. It brightens and tightens the tone. And on B strings, I can't stand anything thicker than 125, honestly I prefer 120. 130 and up are tonally too different from the E and A strings... it is tension match but not a tone match to them. So I choose my strings based on tone quality, and a lighter B always does it for me, regardless of scale length.

 

[Johnny L]

I wonder if part of the difference in our experiences is in strings and how we string them etc?

The only real difference to recognize is that our experiences, opinions, and judgments are subjective, personal. And that is everything.

That we might connunicate using a shared language with shared meanings to enrich our conversations is in the end nothing -- an illusion -- despite what our responses and even calls might suggest.

It all makes me wonder if I've said anything here about the irrefutable difference that the 35" scale brings to the b string (the obvious one being that it is 1" longer than the 34" scale b string) to inspire builders to go yet another inch longer? What an unquestionable difference that would make!

I'm not going to get my hopes up though. Gotta stay real here.

 

[dkelley]

The only real difference to recognize is that our experiences, opinions, and judgments are subjective, personal. And that is everything.

That we might connunicate using a shared language with shared meanings to enrich our conversations is in the end nothing -- an illusion -- despite what our responses and even calls might suggest.

It all makes me wonder if I've said anything here about the irrefutable difference that the 35" scale brings to the b string (the obvious one being that it is 1" longer than the 34" scale b string) to inspire builders to go yet another inch longer? What an unquestionable difference that would make!

I'm not going to get my hopes up though. Gotta stay real here.

That's a rather unproductive view though, since there are others here besides you who are also experienced, capable, talented, picky, etc, just as you are. Don't you think? Recognizing that others here state they have found different results.. that opens the door to discuss why. There must be reasons why, and most likely found in physics, not in subjective impressions.

WE all care about our tone, some of us very very much, in my case. I think we can communicate just fine using the shared language of English in this case, and being analytical, and try to diagnose the cause of our different experiences.

I suggested one very possible reason. Most bassists increase the thickness of the low B string to make ti sound better. I have always gone the other way, for the simple reason that a lighter mass, and a more similar build structure to the next string, makes it sound like the rest of the bass, and makes it sound better as you go up the frets into higher positions.

This is from a lot of experimenting. Like, a lot, recording, playing back, discussing with string manufacturers, and so forth.

So I'm suggesting that could well be the reason why I don't experience the tone loss at 34" scale on the B string that most people think is the crucial difference to 35" scale.

For "floppiness", the topic of this particular thread, I have always found that the string stiffness affects that more than scale length or string gauge. There are plenty of strings that are quite stiff, move notably less far when plucked, and allow for a lower action without buzzing... DR low-riders for example.

I should also note that I'm not very big - 5'7" - and have average sized hands - not small, but not big either. So for me, stretching to 35" and longer scale length is not comfortable, since for almost 40 years of playing 34" scale basses I know exactly where the frets are without looking, and 35" scale does mess with that. I can go shorter and work through it fine, but longer really messes with me. So that is a negative for me, and no doubt affects me outlook on the value of 35" or higher scale length. Also I can't play multiscale very well, from my experience trying. I'm too used to jumping around and playing my way, sight reading music and not having to look at my left hand, and switching to fretless.... all of which are affected, at least for me, in muscle memory by changing scale length or going multiscale.

I prefer 34" scale for that reason, and because I don't hear or feel anything lacking in B strings (or lower) at 34" scale.

 

[Johnny L]

Our experiences seem almost completely opposite. I have yet to have a conversation about music that has ever convinced me that my own personal experiences didn't matter first, foremost, and wholly.

I simply chase only what works for me in achieving my musical goals, and I see no reason for others to do anything but what works for them in achieving theirs also.

But I've been hearing a rumor lately about red lightsabers being 35" long while blue lightsabers only reach 34". Is that the reason the red ones sound deeper, meaner, and more dynamic much like 35" b string basses?

 

[dkelley]

Our experiences seem almost completely opposite. I have yet to have a conversation about music that has ever convinced me that my own personal experiences didn't matter first, foremost, and wholly.

I simply chase only what works for me in achieving my musical goals, and I see no reason for others to do anything but what works for them in achieving theirs also.

But I've been hearing a rumor lately about red lightsabers being 35" long while blue lightsabers only reach 34". Is that the reason the red ones sound deeper, meaner, and more dynamic much like 35" b string basses?

interesting concept... I have no experience with lightsabers other than when I killed some star wars characters in virtual reality, but if these are some type of strings then I'll have to look into them. And that sounds as plausible as anything, as an explanation.

And yes, totally, I never suggested (well, I did jokingly, but only because you did also) that there is only one way that is right. Of course, whatever works for you is right, for you, and likewise for me etc.

But it sure would be good to know why!

I'm going to have to look into your example with lightsabers. if the strings as are good as the weapons, I'm sold.

 

[Jeff Scott]

My two Martin Keith 5 string Elfins have a 34 1/2" scale length and the B strings on them are perfect:deep, thick, musical, mucho sustain, etc. What am I missing with the extra 1/2" I don't have on the neck?

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Respectfully speaking, and IMHO, there’s no absolute that says a 35” scale bass will have a superior B-string to all 34” scale basses with a low B-string.

I’ve had a couple of 34” 5-string basses that had floppy feeling, and undefined sounding B-strings, but I believe I’ve learned a bit more about which brands and gauges of B-strings that I like.

I own 5 basses with low-B strings. 4 of them are 35” scale, and I’m very happy with all of them.

My Alembic Excel-5 has a 34” scale, and I’m very impressed with it’s B-string.

I also was really happy with my StingRay-5’s B-string. I should have never sold that bass.

 

[Johnny L]

Of course, whatever works for you is right, for you, and likewise for me etc.

But it sure would be good to know why!

That's really all the "why" there is in the end.

As artists we are responsible for revealing our visions to others in an objective way -- hence exposing ourselves to others including ourselves in ways that the vast majority of people don't and especially don't do for very long. Especially in the beginning where most people don't escape it's incredibly hard and often soul-crushing work that pays nothing. That to me is all a Talkbass member needs to know to see how much a 35" vs 34" b string really matters.

So what difference does it really make to go through all the details and nuances of my own music-making decisions and choices when directing others to an instrument catalog or just asking them who their music heroes are so emulate that and enjoy the costume simply does the job better and faster? Somebody says "Rudy Sarzo" and then we have fun arguing about the merits (of which I'll teasingly list many) of 35" scaled 4 string basses instead.

For me in the end it's all about the music not the gear. How I get there is completely irrelevant when I'm happy with the final result. I'll use a flushing toilet to get my tone -- so long as it has a 35" not 34" distance to the water line to help me avoid getting splashed when that low b tone starts rattling.

All I confess to know here with any seriousness is that the art lover's demand for objectivity to permit him or her to experience anything at all and the requirement for artists to explicitly reveal their own subjectivity is how the music game gets played. It's my favorite game of all and so I accept whatever works for everyone not just myself. I didn't make the rules don't blame me.

So yes one's own choices matter including the use of a comfortable or at least tolerable bass, but also none of it matters when the final outcome is achieved to the artist's satisfaction -- or at least to mine. In the end I use what I have because it's what I have, just like Jaco when they cleaned him up for his instructional video and couldn't help showing how happy he was to be there if only for a short time. An unlucky guy for sure without a 35" b string but music got made and I'll settle for that.

 

[Eilif]

I think all basses should be 35".
My stable is all 4 strings and 4 of the 6 are 35".

 

[Acoustic356]

I think all basses should be 35".
My stable is all 4 strings and 4 of the 6 are 35".

Have you tried 36” scale basses? Even better!

 

[Eilif]

Have you tried 36” scale basses? Even better!

I've thought of it, but I'm content with what I've got.

 

[80jazz]

Have you tried 36” scale basses? Even better!

I really want to.

Sometimes, I think I want Alembic to build me a Europa with the Exploiter body shape. However, I possess concerns about reaching in the lower positions.

 

[phillipkregg]

I've played 30" scale B strings that sounded great.

It's more about the technique and the EQ used than it is about the scale length.

 

[fretlessbass]

Floppy B strings are intolerable.

Leo made the modern bass at guitar 34” scale to accommodate 4 strings. It is perfect for that specific purpose. Years ago I switched to 5 string and got an American Deluxe Jazz V. It was beautiful, sounded great, but the low B felt a bit like a rubber band.

Years later, Musicman Stingray 5. I loved that bass. It was slightly better with the low B. Still didn’t feel right. At the same time I played an Ibanez 6 string for solo bass arrangements. The high C was fun but that low B was rubber city.

Then I got a Lakland 55-02. Dammit, they got it right. The 5th string is taught, clear, and feels like a natural extension of the bass. It’s big, no doubt. I had to adapt to it but it’s the best 5 string I have ever owned.

My query is, what’s next? Does Sadowsky make a 35” 5 string? I want to get my high end, forever bass at this point in my life. I have pondered owning a Sadowsky for the build quality and tone. Does the B string sing with clarity? Should I go with an American Lakland? What are your thoughts?

I have a 55-02 and a Mercalli 5, which has a 34” neck.
Both have great feeling-and sounding-B strings.
The Lakland’s admittedly more versatile, but I like the Mercalli’s neck and overall sound much more.

 

[Big Dumb]

31 Hz is definitely floppy no matter how you look at it.... Roger Sadowsky likes a tapered B... anybody know why?

 

[Johnny L]

31 Hz is definitely floppy no matter how you look at it.... Roger Sadowsky likes a tapered B... anybody know why?

It's presumably easier to wind the string on the post especially without causing the string to break an angle behind the nut, all of which can be meaningful for keeping the string in tune but also to exhibit a more common aesthetic with the other strings within his headstock design.

 

[Big Dumb]

It's presumably easier to wind the string on the post especially without causing the string to break an angle behind the nut, all of which can be meaningful for keeping the string in tune but also to exhibit a more common aesthetic with the other strings.

is tapered at the bridge..... its like .45 for like a whole inch off the bridge then gets fat. I'd post a photo but I'm way too dumb.

 

[Johnny L]

is tapered at the bridge..... its like .45 for like a whole inch off the bridge then gets fat

Ok then on the bridge side it's all about break angle too, which makes string height harder to set up when say there's a b string break at the gig.

These are common problems when people try to say put fat flatwound Jamerson-style strings on their brand new P basses where the strings feed from behind the back of the body -- nuts and bridge slots too slim for the string to lay in, not passing straight through the nut, etc. Some string manufacturers will taper the fat ones to accomodate players otherwise needing to take out the files, grinder, etc.

 

[Big Dumb]

Ok then on the bridge side it's all about break angle too, which makes string height harder to set up when say there's a b string break at the gig.

Are people breaking Low B's? I only touch it with tenderness or it sounds like a cow pissing out its bunghole.... The quieter I play in general the fatter and punchier and more vibrant sounds come out.... the harder I play the weaker it sounds.... but like I said..... I'm not too bright.... and still getting used to the 5er after a whole year now.... its kind of inspired a rework of everything done in the last 30 years for me....