Please re-read the OP.
literally every sentence is about 34" B feeling like a "rubber band" and on a 35" it feels great, to him. Clearly it's the strings, not the basses, AND/OR mind over matter.
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5 string basses should be 35” scale
- Thread starter bobknowsbass
- Start date
Please re-read the OP.
literally every sentence is about 34" B feeling like a "rubber band" and on a 35" it feels great, to him. Clearly it's the strings, not the basses, AND/OR mind over matter.
I’ve never had problems with 34” scale basses. I use .130 minimum for B strings. Sometimes as high as .145.
so, yes, scale length is not the only factor. To the OP, I have a USA lakland 55-94 from about 2001 with the bartolini pickups, 35" scale. I agree the B string is excellent and articulate, feels totally "integrated" with the instrument, and also sounds usable higher up the neck than others I've owned. It is a fabulous bass. Are there any drawbacks for you to 35"? I'd stick with it if it's comfortable and the other strings also sound "right" to you. Why Sadowsky? Another idea for a high-end 'forever' bass is Adamovic- they customize plenty of things but not so many that it ends up a unicorn designed by committee. 34" or 35" a-ok, ergonomics are great, describe your tonal goals and touchstones and he can probably hook you up with good wood suggestions.
Sheesh.
The 5 string bass is definitely a different animal than the 4; and you certainly can’t just slap an extra string on the 4 and have a B string that speaks well. But, the design factors were worked out a while ago.
Neck stiffness is important. The hold down angle at the nut is important. The bridge is important. I could leave it there.
Fender did produce floppy B’s in general for a while. The change from 5 in line to 4+1 headstock pretty much included better hold down for the B at the nut and cured 85% of the issue for them. Add a good HipShot bridge to a Fender 4+1 should get the B speaking pretty well.
A 35” scale does give a better B string response. Longer vibrating string length always favors lower note definition. That’s why the Drop D with an extender will always speak better than the fretted D on a 5 string. OTOH, the 35” scale affects upper register characteristics as well, + / - being a personal preference.
Yeah, the 5 string can be done wrong; but mainly everything to get either 34” or 35” right is out there. FWIW
One final point a lot of players don’t understand is that a steep angle on the B at the bridge saddle will cause early death for the string. This is yet another reason for a properly designed bridge, especially if Non-tapered B strings are used.
The 5 string bass is definitely a different animal than the 4; and you certainly can’t just slap an extra string on the 4 and have a B string that speaks well. But, the design factors were worked out a while ago.
Neck stiffness is important. The hold down angle at the nut is important. The bridge is important. I could leave it there.
Fender did produce floppy B’s in general for a while. The change from 5 in line to 4+1 headstock pretty much included better hold down for the B at the nut and cured 85% of the issue for them. Add a good HipShot bridge to a Fender 4+1 should get the B speaking pretty well.
A 35” scale does give a better B string response. Longer vibrating string length always favors lower note definition. That’s why the Drop D with an extender will always speak better than the fretted D on a 5 string. OTOH, the 35” scale affects upper register characteristics as well, + / - being a personal preference.
Yeah, the 5 string can be done wrong; but mainly everything to get either 34” or 35” right is out there. FWIW
One final point a lot of players don’t understand is that a steep angle on the B at the bridge saddle will cause early death for the string. This is yet another reason for a properly designed bridge, especially if Non-tapered B strings are used.
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I've owned 5 basses with a low B. Two were 35, two were 34. My current is a Fender P 5, 34". I have never played a better B. Not even on the Laklands I've played.
I don't know, man. Seems kinda mean-spirited to call our b-strings floppy and intolerable for only having a 34 in. scale length.
Is there some way to talk about craving that extra 3% without making the rest of us feel like total failures?
Sincerely,
A Sensitive Talkbass Member Flower
Is there some way to talk about craving that extra 3% without making the rest of us feel like total failures?
Sincerely,
A Sensitive Talkbass Member Flower
Me neither, though I think my first instrument being a nylon stringed classical guitar helped form my floppy tastes.
I also suspect that if instead of the word floppy we used words like dynamic and supple more men might like thinner & shorter strings. I actually don't suspect this I know it from decades of marketing
This is not really a "controversial" opinion. The 34" scale isn't ideal for such long wavelengths.
Just to help frame the parameters involved, if you look at the wavelength of E1, it's about 837 cm, compared with the approximately 86 cm scale length of a 34" scale bass. This is pretty close to a 9.69:1 ratio.
If we extrapolate that to B0 (~1117 cm), we'd need about a 45.5" scale length to achieve about the same ratio. Even most double basses don't have a scale length that long.
The only way to get a B0 string to be the same tension as the E1 string at 34" scale is to dramatically increase the mass per unit length (fatter strings). This will give you similar feel, but dramatically alter the harmonic balance, which is already poor to begin with because of the shorter scale length.
The other option, of course is to use a .130 B, but light gauge EADG strings, resulting in floppy strings all over.
It's true that swinging the 35 inch big boy stick can be the difference between a home run and only a hit or worse. Plus, it can exploit and manipulate the defense in ways that is hard to duplicate when they see and start laughing at that 34 inch b-string no matter how fat and taut.
I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule like being connected to a larger speaker or subwoofer, equalization, and a myriad of other factors to make it impossible for the vast majority of listeners to understand the point of any of this nevermind any jokes being shared, but this is Talkbass and WE KNOW THAT EXTRA INCH IS THE HEAVIEST, MEANEST INCH.
I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule like being connected to a larger speaker or subwoofer, equalization, and a myriad of other factors to make it impossible for the vast majority of listeners to understand the point of any of this nevermind any jokes being shared, but this is Talkbass and WE KNOW THAT EXTRA INCH IS THE HEAVIEST, MEANEST INCH.
This is easily achieved for doublebasses with C extensions, which are commonly used in pro orchestras especially the US.
I've played 34" 5 ers since 1998. (Yamaha and sandberg) and I've found with both that using a tapered B string make a WORLD of difference. personally I use Warwick black label (40-130) 40300 ML.
I used to use Warwick reds back in the 90s and the Yamaha (BBG5a) always felt a bit dry and flubby, and i saw a post on here about a TB'er with a Kubiki x factor which used tapered strings for the B and E and a few folk suggested them for 34" basses, so I did a bit of digging and warwick black label 40300 were my best bet
I've been using them exclusively since that post in about 2004-5ish. except for the sandberg which I didn't really feel the need for the tapered B... until I put the Warwick's on earlier this year (after 11 years of staus hotwires) and the B just came to life.
I've just ordered my first 35" 5 with the Harley Benton Marquess. so when she arrives I'll compare the stock olympia strings to the Warwick's after I've set her up with the new strings.
Having used Black Labels once on my Cort GB75JH, I have little doubt you will like them on a 35.
I like the idea of a 35, but having been able to AB it against my other 5er (scale length of 34), it seems to hit a bit better on the 34 and records just fine.
IME strings are the biggest obstacle with 35s.
Neither of your last two posts explain how or why one inch makes a useful difference to the FEEL of the B string, which is what this thread is about.
Tone wise? a big difference in scale length can make a difference in how it sounds, for sure. But there are so many excellent examples of the sound of 34" or of short scale 5 and 6 string basses that this disproves the scale length of one or two inches causing the big changes in town quality.
and are SO much longer scale than any electric bass in existence that it actually does make a large difference to tone, and since they are bowed instruments, you want the string tension to be consistent as bowing requires it.
Electric basses though? it's such tiny differences between scale lengths that the tone differences are minute compared to the differences in string choices and gauges and technologies. The feel? to me the feel is also nearly identical on the B string of a 34 and 35" bass.
As an owner of both a b-string bass with a monsterous 35" scale and a regular 34" scale bass with no bragging rights to claim, I can tell you that extra inch is absolutely everything -- since to reduce the b-stringer to 34" would basically ruin it...being a fretted bass and all.
That would make the low b feel terrible I promise you!
I've built several 34" and 32" scale 5 and 6 strings in the past few years, none have issues with a floppy B string. All have laminated necks with integrated stiffening rods, but a couple are walnut with walnut fretboards - not exactly an extremely stiff wood. The essential piece, as mentioned several times in this thread, it string gauge and setup. If your 34" is floppy, it's not a direct result of the scale length, but a combination of several factors. The single biggest solution though, is a fatter B string. YMMV as a player, but not as a tech or builder. 
The essential piece, as mentioned several times in this thread, it string gauge and setup. If your 34" is floppy, it's not a direct result of the scale length, but a combination of several factors. The single biggest solution though, is a fatter B string. YMMV as a player, but not as a tech or builder.
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