5 String stigma?

[Durham52]

This is Talkbass, there are one eyed people here who'll tell you there's only one option on just about any question asked. Five string players who say get a five strait off, one common message is, "why limit yourself" and 4 string players who respond with, "Jaco only needed 4". (Of course there's a place for 4, 5, 6, or more strings, depending on what you play and what you prefer. The rest is just personal opinion.)

What scale length, painted, or "coffee table basses, round wounds or flats, relic finishes, tort pickguards, is tone "in the fingers", how important are "tone" woods and so on. Name a topic and sooner or later in the thread someone will lay the law down.

I play 4 and 5 string basses and 6 string guitars and don't get the tribal approach some people feel the need to take, but that's life. Some 4 string players make assumptions about 5 string players and visa versa. I'm pretty sure not all who prefer 4 strings are old timers stuck in the 50's and 60's, just look at how many posters supporting 5's fall into the old timers category.

There's way more useful, helpful and worthwhile stuff on Talkbass than there is tribal, argumentative and hair splitting. I reckon it pays to skip over the static and look for the abundant good stuff.

 

[Durham52]

True! But in fairness, I only asked about features and not which to play lol. Oh well.

Look on the bright side, no one's post that you should use the search facility before asking a question that's been asked lots of times before. Some bright spark usually throws that one in, especially if the OP is a newbie.

 

[Flatwound]

I remember Roscoe Beck saying that once he walked into a bar, carrying a Fender Roscoe Beck 5, and heard the bartender say, “That’s not a bass.”

I guess if even Roscoe Beck has to put up with it...

 

[dBChad]

I would ask the OP if he plans on singing and playing simultaneously? I really started finding my 6 string bass valuable on songs where I sing also, as I can cover equivalent ground in 4 fret span as would require 13 frets on a 4 string. This keeps my eyes on the audience rather than the neck and allows me to hold a posture that allows good, controlled, diaphragmatic breathing. Playing "revolver" on the neck lets me sing better than playing "shotgun."

I was a 7 string guitar player (still am tbh, 8 string now, too) before moving to bass, so the utility of a low B was already a native skill set and I started out on a 5. Still have a 5 with flats just because it's a unique sound (may de-fret it over the summer) and if you approach it from the perspective of the A string (North Star method, since it's right down the center) and you understand how intervals on an instrument tuned to 4ths work, a 5 string will quickly become a versatile tool.

 

[Medicine Man]

So funny you say that! I once auditioned for a popular local band with a 5, and they had a song that the guitarist tried to show me how he played it originally. I kept doing it on the E string like he was showing me and he kept telling me that was the wrong string until I told him that the lowest string was a B.

Their old bassist used a Precision. I didn't get the gig.

Stigma exists with basses more than 4 strings. Does it exist in every band or musical situation? Certainly not. But it darn sure exists. Do I still have my 5? Absolutely, because I may need it sometime. But most of the time I use a 4.

Ive had this happen as well. Ive also lost a gig from 5 strings because the guitarist was trying to watch my hands for chord changes and the position change was throwing him off. It really surprised me how many people are using their eyes instead of their ears.

 

[packhowitzer]

I suppose it's not that way for everyone, but I've been playing for 30+ years and rarely has anyone cared what kind of gear I played. Which in retrospect is a good thing, because anyone criticizing my choices would immediately be told to F*$% off. I don't tell a painter what kind of brush to use - just do a good job of painting. I don't tell the chef what kind of knife to use - just make a great meal. I don't tell a doctor what type of scalpel to use - just have a successful operation. You get the idea.... Just get good results and don't obsess over the equipment used to get it.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

I play both. My current gig is low key. I like playing my 4 string. I recently auditioned for my church. It is a 5 string setting. Plus it gives me an excuse to own more basses!!

 

[Bass Blender]

I’m pretty sure Dean makes a 12 string bass, if they haven’t been discontinued.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

eventually went back to only 4 string because the kind of music I mostly do fits more in those kinds of categories..

I got shot down for saying something like this on another post!

 

[Wretched Banana]

Fwiw, I got slammed in the face with a "Jaco didn't need a B string" by a veteran guitarist & music scholar. I accepted that he was a living and breathing meme and responded that I didn't think Jaco played any Cannibal Corpse. So yeah, people have opinions, there is no mandate to take them seriously.

On a different note... I'll say this. 5 string and 4 strings have enough differences that I think one should play both in the comfort of their homes lest they find themselves in a situation that necessitates playing on the unfamiliar instrument.

 

[Wasnex]

I got shot down for saying something like this on another post!

If you want to play 4-string, it's entirely fine with me. Seriously I don't care what you play, and it has no influence on what I play.

I remember doing a bar gig a year or so after I started playing 6-string in the military. This was before I had purchased my own 6-string, so I was still using my Ric 4001 for private pay gigs.

Several audience members came up to me on breaks and were giving me compliments and telling me how happy they were that I was playing a real bass. They joked about how anything with more than four string was not a real bass. I laughed along with them...or was it at them ? They will never know . We all had a good time, and I got paid .

 

[bdplaid]

Hello, I posted a thread the other day about opinions on two bass models. I’m a veteran guitar player picking up a new bass, and one thing I noticed was how many people suggested that I buy a 4 string bass instead of a 5. I was a bit confused, because I was only asking about specific models, not whether to get a 4 or 5. Is there some stigma with 5 strings that I’m not aware of? I know everyone has opinions and I respect that, but I was surprised to see it pop up so much.

IME, different gigs require different things. Most classic rock, blues, r and b bands are more conservative and want the look of a 4 string. Also, why play a 5 when a 4 will do just fine?
Other gigs like metal and such will require a B string, no matter how you get there.

For me, I played a 5 for 20 some years, and I was reviewing a 4 string bass for a magazine. It occurred to me how much more fun I had playing the 4 than the 5. Then it occurred to me that the B string had become a very expensive thumb rest. I went back to 4, with the occasional drop D tuning. Much easier all around, considering that there are more string sets available, the basses are lighter, etc.

 

[Pings Bass]

In the real world, never heard a disparaging word. Quite to the contrary.

On talk bass dot com, yeah i guess I've seen it. Chalk it up to the boomer/classic rock demographic dominant here.

Just keep in mind that for all that is good about this web site, it is not representative of the music industry. It skews significantly older, and hobbyists/weekend warriors outnumber pros.

Take it all with a grain of salt, and use the right tool for the job. For modern pop, rock, r&b and more, that's often a 5-string bass, regardless of what the gray haired guy with a P bass says.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Fives are fine, you may get a stink eye if you show up with a six string because now you're getting into guitar territory, even though it's only another 5 notes above a 5 string neck. It's just a lot easier to go to those higher notes.

 

[pbass2]

In the real world, never heard a disparaging word. Quite to the contrary.

On talk bass dot com, yeah i guess I've seen it. Chalk it up to the boomer/classic rock demographic dominant here.

Just keep in mind that for all that is good about this web site, it is not representative of the music industry. It skews significantly older, and hobbyists/weekend warriors outnumber pros.

Take it all with a grain of salt, and use the right tool for the job. For modern pop, rock, r&b and more, that's often a 5-string bass, regardless of what the gray haired guy with a P bass says.

Actually, I think it's almost the opposite. There's a real trend over the last several years to more trad/classic tones in new pop and rock, especially "indie" (whatever that means to you). It's not just "boomers" as you say. In fact I know way more silverbacks playing fivers than playing a P or Mustang with flats! At least that's what I see in the biz here in LA, and the folks I work with in Nashville - it's almost all 4 string classic-styled basses, especially with younger artists.
I've never heard so many Pbasses with flatwounds in so much new music, also Mustangs, and whatnot. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, if you do a session with many (most?) big time producers these days, a 4 string P (often w flats) is required. Next a 4 banger P w rounds. Then they want to see some kinda shorty, maybe hollowbody (also usually w flats). Just look at the interviews with guys like JMJ, Lefebvre, Hurley, Pino, all those cats. Hardly any fivers being used at all.

 

[red_rhino]

There are some folks who recite the "Jaco only needed 4 strings" mantra, or believe that because they only need 4's, that's all anyone else needs. If you're giving advise to a new player, even one transitioning from guitar, I think that many people will advise starting on a 4 because they truly believe it will be an easier path into mastering the bass as an instrument with a path toward growth. (As a guitar player, would you advise a new player to start off with a 7 string?)

I play 5's (and occasionally 6's) and would give the same advice on starting with a 4, for the reason stated above. However, if what you really want is a 5, I would never say it's a mistake. The only caveat I would provide is that starting on a 5 might make it more difficult to transition to a 4, then vice versa. The extra B (or high C) open up avenues that simply don't exist on a 4, so reigning oneself in can sometimes be a challenge. Not that it can't be done, it's just more difficult.

Most people here really don't care what you play, as long as you post pics of it.

 

[Wasnex]

I will add this:

For someone starting from scratch...IMHO learning 5-string will only be slightly harder than learning 4-string. IMHO it's not really that much harder, so if you know you want to play 5-string, I would encourage you to start on 5-string.

Learning 4-string first and transitioning to 5-string is sort of like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, 2 steps forward. Avoid the 1 step back by starting on 5-string. The net will be like 4 steps forward VS 6 steps forward. Here's the math 4-string to 5-string (2-1+3=4), 5-string (2+1+3=6)

For a veteran guitar player things are bit more complicated because your mind is already mapped to the 4-string fretboard, so if you decide to play 4-string bass it should be a fairly easy transition.

If you decide to play 5-string bass, you sort of start with the 1-step back. Since you will probably continue playing guitar, it may be more like 1 1/2 steps back. Much easier to map your brain for a 5-string fretboard if you're not constantly reinforcing the existing 4-string mental map you use with guitar. The difficulty of this process will depend on the way you think about both guitar and bass. If you play by ear, shape, and pattern, the transition will probably be easy. If you use notes and music theory, much more difficult.

If the goal is to play 5-string bass, I still think you should jump in on 5-string right away but YMMV. I do think learning to play 5-string bass will be significantly harder than learning to play 4-string bass. So consider how committed and discplined you are. Also you might want to perform the force field analysis I suggested earlier to make sure it's really going to be worth the extra effort.

 

[Pings Bass]

Actually, I think it's almost the opposite. There's a real trend over the last several years to more trad/classic tones in new pop and rock, especially "indie" (whatever that means to you). It's not just "boomers" as you say. In fact I know way more silverbacks playing fivers than playing a P or Mustang with flats!

I'll take your word about rock; wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about that! So maybe there's a contemporary rock bias against 5-strings? I wouldn't be surprised. But rock is a small segment of the industry, 14%, and it is heavily overrepresented here.

Most pop i hear these days has synth/sequenced bass, so I guess I'm wrong about that, too! No strings at all!

ANYWAY at least one of my points stands: you should always choose the right tool for the job, regardless of what some rando on the internet says. And if you're reading or transposing, a 5-string is just easier in my experience, even if you never play one of its extra five notes.

Just $.02 from an old guy who doesn't play rock. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[pbass2]

...So maybe there's a contemporary rock bias against 5-strings?...

I would indeed say this is accurate. And also for new Americana type stuff, country that's not "pop country", and, well, many many genres. Man, and if it's a "coffee table bass", then look out! You're not even getting in the building!

 

[asparaguspee]

I found it difficult to go back and forth between a 4 and a 5, so I just stuck with 5 since the mid 90s.

Is it really that hard? Genuine question.

I'm a fairly new player and just bought a 5 string to sit alongside my 4's, I really want to play both and switch between them whenever I feel like it.