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5 String stigma?
- Thread starter Titanium
- Start date
This is worthy of repeating
If you hang around here long enough you’ll figure out not to drink the everyone must play a 4 string Pbass with flats and must have a tort pickguard kool- aide.
Play what YOU like and LIKE what you play I always say.
and then there are the weird harold guys like me who play both in the same show. i suppose because i learned on a 4 they just feel like home to me. but some songs either need the extended range or just sound better on a 5 and i am definitely comfortable playing one. so i switch back and forth even within sets to use whichever feels right or fits the song better. lots of people ask why i don;t just play a 5 all the time. they have a point for sure. but i just love how the 4 feels under my hands. so as was said before play what you like, 5's are super and the extended range can sure be fun with solos, etc. and yes amps and cabs big enough to crush tuberculosis are good too!
As a guitar player who took up bass later, I found going from a 4 string bass to a 5 string bass after a couple years was significantly easier than going from a 6 string guitar to a 7 string guitar. Part of that was the fact that I wasn't overcoming decades of muscle memory, and part was that bass is much easier to navigate the fretboard on to begin with.
The challenges to learning bass as a guitar player have nothing to do with learning your way around the fretboard, and that doesn't change between 4 strings or 5.
Get whatever bass you want for the music you play. If you're never going to use the low B, then don't get a 5 string because it's extra weight and an extra string to mute (lower strings are more prone to sympathetic resonance). But don't avoid 5 strings just because some people think they're harder to play.
The challenges to learning bass as a guitar player have nothing to do with learning your way around the fretboard, and that doesn't change between 4 strings or 5.
Get whatever bass you want for the music you play. If you're never going to use the low B, then don't get a 5 string because it's extra weight and an extra string to mute (lower strings are more prone to sympathetic resonance). But don't avoid 5 strings just because some people think they're harder to play.
Weird. I've only played 4s but I'm thinking about getting a 5. I started a thread just a few days ago about it and not one person has made any negative comment about moving to a 5. In fact, most of the replies have been helpful suggestions about which 5s fit what I'm looking for.
5rs open up options, and options are good. And if someone is bent out of shape because they want you to play a 4, just tell them that just because it has a 5th string it does mean you have to play it. And then play it anyways. Besides there are songs in the keys of D, especially country music. What about walking UP to E. And if that person is still bent out of shape, tell them to lighten up, and/or find other folks to play with.
Speaking purely from my own experience, I have no trouble flipping between 4 or 5 string basses and 6 string guitars. Change the tuning (BEAD, or a five tuned EADGC) and it'll throw me for a bit.
I don’t feel like re-reading that thread, but none of the the “start with a four first then step up to a five” posts I remember had anything to do with traditionalism or stigma.
The ones I read and the one I posted were simply from a perspective of lowering the slope on the learning curve because bass guitar is definitely a different enough instrument than a guitar to begin with before adding the extra hurdles which are semi-G.A.S.-inducing when you get to trying to get a B string that doesn’t suck compared to the other four out into the air and into your ears.
The ones I remember were from others who started bass after first having been proficient at guitar and having to un-learn a lot to move on to learn.
Crawl, walk, then run.
or just buy a Dingwall Afterburner, a Mesa D-800+, and a pair of matching 212’s straight out the gate. That’s where this all leads. There or a P with flats and a Bassman or Ampeg. It’s the same as the slope into Les Paul/Strat + JCM or a Martin D-18.
The ones I read and the one I posted were simply from a perspective of lowering the slope on the learning curve because bass guitar is definitely a different enough instrument than a guitar to begin with before adding the extra hurdles which are semi-G.A.S.-inducing when you get to trying to get a B string that doesn’t suck compared to the other four out into the air and into your ears.
The ones I remember were from others who started bass after first having been proficient at guitar and having to un-learn a lot to move on to learn.
Crawl, walk, then run.
or just buy a Dingwall Afterburner, a Mesa D-800+, and a pair of matching 212’s straight out the gate. That’s where this all leads. There or a P with flats and a Bassman or Ampeg. It’s the same as the slope into Les Paul/Strat + JCM or a Martin D-18.
I wouldn't call it a stigma, I would call it tribal BS. People tend to hold the idea that their way if thinking is the best, and everyone should agree.
Here's my advice: If you want to play 5-string, then you should start on a 5-string. Why?
I started on 4-string and underwent two transitions. First I transitioned from 4-string to 5-string around 1992. Then around 1995 I transitioned from 5-string to 6-string. I would say it takes about two years to really transition to an extended range instrument. Why would you want to endure that? Also, I would say it took me about ten years to begin thinking more as a natural 6-string player, than like a 4-string player who had a few extra strings to deal with. If you know you want to play a 5-string, take the easiest path to becoming a natural 5-string player.
Here's the deal, when you are first learning to play, you have to learn the finger board. At first that takes a lot of concentration and focus to know where the notes are. Over time your mind builds a spatial map so you can play automatically without thinking. When you add a string, it confounds your automatic mental process, so you have to forget and relearn your automated mental map. This degrades your playing and is frustrating.
Also, a person who plays an extended range instrument will have different strategies for navigating the fretboard. As a 4-string player, you have to make lot's of shifts up and down the neck. As a 6-string player you can simply play across the strings. You can still shift if you like, but you have a choice that allows you options if you want a different tone or texture. When you are playing fast, technical music, you don't have time think about whether you will shift or play across the strings, you just play however is most natural. A natural 6-string player will feel a bit lost with a 4-string in his or her hands, due to the missing strings. If you have some fast technical music to play, you will probably have to stop and think about how you will navigate the fretboard.
If I were limited to five strings, I would keep the low-B for commercial music. I use the high C mainly for soloing over jazz standards. But believe it or not, when I was running a country band around 2000, some of the top 40 hits had bass fills that felt right on the C string. Quite a few of the hits had notes played on the low B string.
Some Advantages of the 5-string:
There is lot's of material that was written for the B-string or written for synthesizer that goes below the open E. Also it pretty common to have to transpose music down because the vocalist cannot cover some material in the original key. Sometimes transposing music can destroy an iconic bass line if you only have a 4-string bass, but if you have a low B string you can continue to play the original bass line.
A lot of people that tell you to play a 4-string have tried to transition to 5-string and failed. It's not an easy transition IMHO, so I think starting on 4-string with the idea of learning to play 5-string later is the wrong choice.
You already have a mental map of the lower four strings from playing guitar, so you are already in for a bit of an ordeal. If you are not committed to the task then I agree with the people who are telling you to play 4-string...you already have that 4-string map in order, so it's just a matter of learning the technique and how to play good bass lines.
Also normally I would say you need to play 5-string exclusively for an extended time. Playing a 4-string will reinforce your current mental map and continually confound the new 5-string map your are trying to develop. Since I expect you will continue playing guitar, this could complicate your ability to build and maintain a 5-string mental map. As an example, I have trouble keeping things straight between 6-string bass and 6-string guitar, especially C string VS B string.The only saving grace is you probably don't really think that much about low notes on guitar, so maybe it wont' be that bad.
Hope this helps explain some peoples' responses and gives you some context so you can make an informed decision. I really do think having access to that low B is incredibly useful for many styles of music. I own 4-strings, but I can't imagine a 4-string ever being my #1 again.
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Works in reverse too: if you're looking at 4 strings, people will recommend 5 strings. People just recommend the thing on their mind, with varying degrees of relevance, it's not a TB thing, it's an internet forum thing. Was a L-2500 mentioned, btw?
I do wish I'd started playing on a 5, but I didn't even know such a thing existed at the time!
I briefly switched to one after maybe 6 years full-time gigging on a 4 but never took the time to get comfortable with it, and switched back.
I can't see myself ever needing anything more than 4, but if I was starting over knowing what I know now about the added versatility, I'd definitely go for a 5.
I briefly switched to one after maybe 6 years full-time gigging on a 4 but never took the time to get comfortable with it, and switched back.
I can't see myself ever needing anything more than 4, but if I was starting over knowing what I know now about the added versatility, I'd definitely go for a 5.
I've only ever played 4 string basses. I've tried fives for a few minutes (not well). I am sure it would be less of a challenge for a five string player to play a four. If I was starting today, it'd be on a five string P bass (sunburst, tort and flats, of course)
In every realm you encounter "purists" and "functionalists". I believe there's a bit of that in the 4 vs more strings debate for bass.
Purists will attach importance to the fact the the instrument was not only originally created with 4 strings, but also that its aim was to be an electric version of the double bass, which is itself 4 stringed. So the thinking may go: if 4 strings were enough for decades on electric bass and for centuries before on stand up, then why wouldn't it be enough today?
I play a 5 string. Even before I switched, the last few years I strung my 4 string BEAD. So for me it's really about that low B sound. Ever since I heard it, I've wanted it! And now I'm just more accustomed to it and need to adjust whenever I grab a 4.
Yet, when I listen to great bassists playing on a 4, I never find that they lack any bottom. Sometimes, I think maybe if I were a better bass player, 4 strings would be enough, and the 5th, for me, is just a lazy way to get thrills.
Purists will attach importance to the fact the the instrument was not only originally created with 4 strings, but also that its aim was to be an electric version of the double bass, which is itself 4 stringed. So the thinking may go: if 4 strings were enough for decades on electric bass and for centuries before on stand up, then why wouldn't it be enough today?
I play a 5 string. Even before I switched, the last few years I strung my 4 string BEAD. So for me it's really about that low B sound. Ever since I heard it, I've wanted it! And now I'm just more accustomed to it and need to adjust whenever I grab a 4.
Yet, when I listen to great bassists playing on a 4, I never find that they lack any bottom. Sometimes, I think maybe if I were a better bass player, 4 strings would be enough, and the 5th, for me, is just a lazy way to get thrills.
I spend no time thinking about other bass players' number of strings, or choice of pickguard. No stigma. I've always wanted to try an 8 string bass like Tom Petersson or Nick Lowe because I grew up admiring those guys.
Your projection. I play mainly 6s, but I seldom recommend playing one unless someone else brings it up first.
@Wasnex, post #31 is spot on.
If you can play it on a 5, you can play it on a 4. And vice versa. Or at least it should be
I didn't know it was a competition. Some play 5, some play 4, some play both. What's the problem?
Me, I don't play 6 or 8 or 44. It doesn't mean it's bad, it does mean I'm not playing those. I'm no better/worse because I do so.
When folks stop comparing themselves and especially respecting each other things will be fine.
Music should never mean competition. It's a way of expressing yourself. Doesn't matter what brand/instrument you're playing.
I don't know what the fuss is all about. Then again, I'm an easy going dude, fairly old and I probably know nothing. Have fun folks, this life is a short ride.
Me, I don't play 6 or 8 or 44. It doesn't mean it's bad, it does mean I'm not playing those. I'm no better/worse because I do so.
When folks stop comparing themselves and especially respecting each other things will be fine.
Music should never mean competition. It's a way of expressing yourself. Doesn't matter what brand/instrument you're playing.
I don't know what the fuss is all about. Then again, I'm an easy going dude, fairly old and I probably know nothing. Have fun folks, this life is a short ride.
