800w @ 8 Ohm class D head suggestions

[dbsfgyd1]

From owning a WT-400 with 410XLT and a WD-800 with Subway 210, I am surprised at the lack of upper mids and highs to match (in the WD-800 settings). I know the WT-400 is warmer sounding than the WT-800, but I find that I add mids to the WD-800 / 210 setup to match the sound - I don’t cut anything. Interesting. I always ran my WT-400 flat into the 410XLT (which already had a ton of mids). My Eden setup got retired from performing about a decade ago when I decided I was getting too old in my forties to carry that cabinet up a flight of stairs…

As I mentioned, I don’t need a lot of upper mids in my gig playing the type of music we do. As for the WD-800, my experience using it with Eden cabs is it is loaded with upper mids, to almost trebly, and very suitable for harder rock type genres. Especially at higher power levels.

In general I find the WD-800 to be a very versatile amp. The first thing I did when I bought it was to try out the sample settings in the owners manual. Frankly I’m a little surprised you are having trouble with a lack of upper mids. If anything, I had troubles getting the right blend upper mids as the individual frequency bands on Mesa’s parametric EQ is much broader than Eden’s.

I’m still using my D-210-XST cab and just bought a D-112-XST for smaller gigs , but it pairs well with with the 210 for larger venues with no FOH.

But at are 72, I’m not so sure that wouldn’t change if I was playing a lot of one night stands.

 

[j3ffr0]

Maybe add another 8 ohm cabinet and run them both in parallel, then the problem is solved -- 4 ohms.

If I needed so much volume that I was trying to get the full 800 watts out of an amp, I'd be probably be running two cabinets anyway at that point. I'm probably not in the minority in that, which is probably why that cabinet, other cabinets, and amps are designed the way they are. Nothing wrong with a cabinet at 8 ohms, but if you want the max out of it.... it's designed to be paired with another cabinet.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Ok. I am a believer in a backup. Here come negative replies.
Try a TC electronics head. You can afford to buy 2. Guys have these that last for many years. You read of big name heads failing also. Had an acquaintance that had a trace Elliot that almost set off the fire alarm. Literally.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I recently acquired a mark Bass for 104 cab will support 800 W @ 8 ohms. I have an Eden WT 800 that will do that, but it weighs 27 pounds. At first I thought no problem. I was wrong. On top of that, I just put $185 in repairs into it, and it’s still a little problematic. Rather than continue to try to repair it, I thought I would just invest in a newer class D that can support that high a wattage. Everything I see seems to be 800 W @4ohms. Ideally, a bridgeable amp should meet the requirement. Just not sure where to look as everything appears to be 800 W at four ohms. Any suggestions?

Hard to find now days as the WT800's had two discrete power channels, each capable of 400-watts rms into 4Ω. When you bridge them both channels are running at 4Ω to produce a bridged output of 8Ω. To my knowledge bridging a dual-powerblock amp that puts out 400-watts per channel is the only way to get that 800-watts bridged.

The 2005 and later WT800C would run down to 2Ω per channel so it could bridge into either 4Ω at 1100-watts or 8Ω at 880 watts. In 2005 the two channels had upgraded to 440 watts into 4Ω and 550-watts into 2Ω. My WT500/800 puts out 800-watts bridged at 8Ω, but since it has the same power supply as the WT800A does, it also weighs in around 27-lbs. If you can find a class D head that has two discrete power channels that can be bridged that might work, but I think bridging class D power channels is a real technical challenge presuming it can be done. I recall Eden had a WT1000 class D amp that was basically two separate WTX500 amps using the same preamp. It did give you two separate channels, but could not be bridged. @agedhorse said he didn't know if there were any out there and he probably would have done it with one of his Mesa amps if it was a reasonable thing to do, presuming there was enough demand for such an amp.

I still use my Eden WT500/800 when I need 800-watts outdoors and at music festivals because I can leave my second cab at home while using it. I get told to turn down at music festivals if I turn the master up to 10:30 into my DNS-410 cab by DNA (1400-watts rms power handling). I could use my DNA-800 amp at Music Festivals to run my DNS 410+210 stack, but that 210 cab is 52-lbs whereas the big Eden amp is 27-lbs.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Maybe add another 8 ohm cabinet and run them both in parallel, then the problem is solved -- 4 ohms.

If I needed so much volume that I was trying to get the full 800 watts out of an amp, I'd be probably be running two cabinets anyway at that point. I'm probably not in the minority in that, which is probably why that cabinet, other cabinets, and amps are designed the way they are. Nothing wrong with a cabinet at 8 ohms, but if you want the max out of it.... it's designed to be paired with another cabinet.

I figure with My one Eden 210 cab powered with 400 watts is going to generate over 120dB for when needed. That is a lot of stage presence. In fact I’ve covered a few rooms that seated over 700 with no FOH support.

But more to the general point of the thread , I think the decisions to buy a cab should be based on more than the brand, size-amount of speakers, RMS rating and ohms.

 

[DWBass]

500w into that cab will certainly do the job. After a certain amount of power, most speakers begin to compress and just won't get any louder. No need trying to pump max power into them! Speaker damage will result.

 

[agedhorse]

Hard to find now days as the WT800's had two discrete power channels, each capable of 400-watts rms into 4Ω. When you bridge them both channels are running at 4Ω to produce a bridged output of 8Ω. To my knowledge bridging a dual-powerblock amp that puts out 400-watts per channel is the only way to get that 800-watts bridged.

The 2005 and later WT800C would run down to 2Ω per channel so it could bridge into either 4Ω at 1100-watts or 8Ω at 880 watts. In 2005 the two channels had upgraded to 440 watts into 4Ω and 550-watts into 2Ω. My WT500/800 puts out 800-watts bridged at 8Ω, but since it has the same power supply as the WT800A does, it also weighs in around 27-lbs. If you can find a class D head that has two discrete power channels that can be bridged that might work, but I think bridging class D power channels is a real technical challenge presuming it can be done. I recall Eden had a WT1000 class D amp that was basically two separate WTX500 amps using the same preamp. It did give you two separate channels, but could not be bridged. @agedhorse said he didn't know if there were any out there and he probably would have done it with one of his Mesa amps if it was a reasonable thing to do, presuming there was enough demand for such an amp.

I still use my Eden WT500/800 when I need 800-watts outdoors and at music festivals because I can leave my second cab at home while using it. I get told to turn down at music festivals if I turn the master up to 10:30 into my DNS-410 cab by DNA (1400-watts rms power handling). I could use my DNA-800 amp at Music Festivals to run my DNS 410+210 stack, but that 210 cab is 52-lbs whereas the big Eden amp is 27-lbs.

The WTX-500 couldn't be bridged because it was made up from 2 already bridged amp channels.

 

[pb9717]

Sorry for trying to help you understand WHY your speaker choice has created the challenge you are now experiencing trying to find an amp that does what you wish.

Good luck.

I appreciate you guidance. As a matter of fact I know many folks on this forum are very appreciative of your expertise. But I kinda already knew my challenge, thus the reason for creating the post. I’m having sellers regret for letting go of my ol’ Streamliner 900. Used it for a decade, and went back to Eden for the tone, But the Eden stuff is all old now. Either worn out or too low a wattage for this cab. Or too heavy for the higher watt stuff.

 

[pb9717]

A good friend is going to let me test his GK fusion 800. I’m sure that’ll provide all the watts I’ll need for most of my gigs. And be well suited for the cab. Just wanna check the tone.

 

[agedhorse]

A good friend is going to let me test his GK fusion 800. I’m sure that’ll provide all the watts I’ll need for most of my gigs. And be well suited for the cab. Just wanna check the tone.

Right, ~400 watts at 8 ohms which is exactly what I was suggesting earlier. Your Streamliner 900 was 500 watts RMS at 8 ohms.

 

[John D Harris]

Out of production, but only fairly recently - Ampeg SVT-7 Pro - 600 watts 8 ohms - 15.5lbs.

Outside of that and the Bergantino Ultra, you'd probably need a Preamp / Power Amp solution - the Crest Pro-LITE 5.0 bridged is 1000W/8 Ohm.

 

[zombywoof5050]

Maybe add another 8 ohm cabinet and run them both in parallel, then the problem is solved -- 4 ohms.

But then he would need 1,600 watts in order to fill up both cabs!

 

[Joebone]

While many posts focus on the OP's choice of cabinet, I share his interest in a smaller, lighter power amp that could crank 700-800 watts at 8 ohms. this results from my love for the Greenboy Fearless cabinets, which feature excellent sound and projection, but are horribly inefficient. IIRC, designer Greenboy was recommending around 600 for the F112, and 700 for the F115. Presently getting pretty good results with old Genz Benz 9.2 on the F115 but the additional slam and headroom when I trundle out a Hartke LH1000 (750W bridged, at 8 ohms) is undeniable...yet on the negative side, that beast is 30 pounds, I'm not in love with the Fender-style tone stack, and there are many reports of unit failure. Would love to hear what folks think of alternatives...

 

[agedhorse]

Not many options, as I’m sure you are aware of.

The larger amp is way outside the sweet spot, which is why manufactures are reluctant to develop for. The regulatory costs alone are a major stumbling block for those who follow the rules. Then there’s tooling costs and MOQ’s.

 

[pb9717]

While many posts focus on the OP's choice of cabinet, I share his interest in a smaller, lighter power amp that could crank 700-800 watts at 8 ohms. this results from my love for the Greenboy Fearless cabinets, which feature excellent sound and projection, but are horribly inefficient. IIRC, designer Greenboy was recommending around 600 for the F112, and 700 for the F115. Presently getting pretty good results with old Genz Benz 9.2 on the F115 but the additional slam and headroom when I trundle out a Hartke LH1000 (750W bridged, at 8 ohms) is undeniable...yet on the negative side, that beast is 30 pounds, I'm not in love with the Fender-style tone stack, and there are many reports of unit failure. Would love to hear what folks think of alternatives...

My rig of choice for over a decade was the fEARless f112 + streamliner 900. But I heard that markbass 104 and it sounded a bit fuller with some “ personality” vs the studio monitor performance of the f112. So I moved to the markbass. It was just one of those situations where I had to use a particular rig for such a long time, I was just interested in a change. Before I purchased the Markbass cabinet. I was using an acme B210, also a fantastic cabinet, but Weight prohibitive. The MB 104 was the closest sounding MB cabinet to the Acme., And ridiculously light., I just wish I still had that streamliner.

 

[John D Harris]

The Electro-Voice P3000 is 850W/ch @ 8 Ohm AND they only weigh 64lbs.

 

[agedhorse]

The Electro-Voice P3000 is 850W/ch @ 8 Ohm AND they only weigh 64lbs.

And have been discontinued for at least a few decades…

 

[el murdoque]

This is an example of the wrong tool for the job. There are very few bass amps on the market that cat truly deliver 800 watts RMS into 8 ohms. Almost none actually.

A 4 ohm cabinet would be a MUCH better choice IMO, it opens up a LOT more amp options from a LOT more manufacturers.

I want to go splitting hairs here and offer the first generation Orange Terror Bass 1000 which should deliver 1000W into 4 or 8 ohm regardless.
And then there's the (please don't hit me) TC Electronic Blacksmith.
It is rated at a whopping sixteen hundred TC watts, so it should deliver half of that into 8 ohms.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hard to find now days as the WT800's had two discrete power channels, each capable of 400-watts rms into 4Ω. When you bridge them both channels are running at 4Ω to produce a bridged output of 8Ω. To my knowledge bridging a dual-powerblock amp that puts out 400-watts per channel is the only way to get that 800-watts bridged.

The 2005 and later WT800C would run down to 2Ω per channel so it could bridge into either 4Ω at 1100-watts or 8Ω at 880 watts. In 2005 the two channels had upgraded to 440 watts into 4Ω and 550-watts into 2Ω. My WT500/800 puts out 800-watts bridged at 8Ω, but since it has the same power supply as the WT800A does, it also weighs in around 27-lbs. If you can find a class D head that has two discrete power channels that can be bridged that might work, but I think bridging class D power channels is a real technical challenge presuming it can be done. I recall Eden had a WT1000 class D amp that was basically two separate WTX500 amps using the same preamp. It did give you two separate channels, but could not be bridged. @agedhorse said he didn't know if there were any out there and he probably would have done it with one of his Mesa amps if it was a reasonable thing to do, presuming there was enough demand for such an amp.

I still use my Eden WT500/800 when I need 800-watts outdoors and at music festivals because I can leave my second cab at home while using it. I get told to turn down at music festivals if I turn the master up to 10:30 into my DNS-410 cab by DNA (1400-watts rms power handling). I could use my DNA-800 amp at Music Festivals to run my DNS 410+210 stack, but that 210 cab is 52-lbs whereas the big Eden amp is 27-lbs.

Always enjoy your posts Dan.

 

[agedhorse]

I want to go splitting hairs here and offer the first generation Orange Terror Bass 1000 which should deliver 1000W into 4 or 8 ohm regardless.
And then there's the (please don't hit me) TC Electronic Blacksmith.
It is rated at a whopping sixteen hundred TC watts, so it should deliver half of that into 8 ohms.

Yet neither of these amps are still in production, and not replaced by models with similar power ratings.

Like I posted earlier, there’s good reasons.