800w @ 8 Ohm class D head suggestions

[John D Harris]

I recently acquired a mark Bass for 104 cab will support 800 W @ 8 ohms. I have an Eden WT 800 that will do that, but it weighs 27 pounds. At first I thought no problem. I was wrong. On top of that, I just put $185 in repairs into it, and it’s still a little problematic. Rather than continue to try to repair it, I thought I would just invest in a newer class D that can support that high a wattage. Everything I see seems to be 800 W @4ohms. Ideally, a bridgeable amp should meet the requirement. Just not sure where to look as everything appears to be 800 W at four ohms. Any suggestions?

I'd second the Trace Elliot TE-1200.

Not sure if it has more than 600W @ 8 Ohm, but I suspect it would serve the purpose!

Otherwise - Bergantino Ultra would be the way to roll.

 

[pepj]

Haven't read all of this thread but it occured to me what actually practical purpose does the OP have.
Assuming you were actually pushing out 800w from one instrument source, what is everyone else actually having to do and in what context?

I run a 900w amp...supposedly..but its from a reputable maker, imv so I give it a real live assessment and its the loudest amp I have.
I only run it through a combined 500w cab config..or if I'm a little unsure, a 600w cab.
Both systems are nominally 4ohms.

We aren't a loud rock band but we can get pretty powerful and work outside without bass in the P.A.

So, all in all...the numbers posted need to really be determined and assessed in a live context.
I'm thinking with my 900w amp and 500w cabs...I'm probably doing 300w max.
Anyway..the answer is how loud is loud enough. Mine is loud enough.

 

[TTA]

It is a minefield of sorts, with a lot of the important information pretty well obscured (even to me, and I know what to look for)

Testing for 2 hours can be done with any of the above methods, but I sure hope that a speaker can survive 2 hours at rated power without damage. In general. the 2 hour AES test is a must survive test and may not meet the factor spec afterwards. When I do testing like this, I like to test a sample or two for between 20 and 200 hours and look at the shifts of the Fs spec. There's not always the time, or a place in the warehouse to do this but I will always go well beyond 2 hours.

Just a quick note on the 2 hour must survive power rating, in order to survive for 20 hours, the power level generally has to be reduced by between 20% and 25%, so in theory you could translate between the two (kind of close) but a 20 hour with no significant changes in the Fs value always results in a much more conservative power handling number. Since we offer a 5 year warranty, it obviously makes more sense to be conservative.

very interesting. I dont even want to try giving rules of thumb between rms and program (google says 50%). but that would vaguely make me think traynors 2 hours “program adjacent” protocol and say markbass’s rms (aes standard) would both be similar. both cabs listed at 800w, so both could theoretically be estimated to hold 600w continuous long term no damage?

ironically my orange 410 is wlso listed at 600w and i cant quickly find their testing standards . i will hazard a guess that it is a wash. will message the manufacturers to see what they say.

 

[DJ Bebop]

This is interesting. When I had a WD800 running into one 4-ohm cabinet (Audiokinesis), it sounded better switched to the 2-ohm setting - just seemed more authoritative and grunty...

I think part of this is not only are you changing the ohms by the switch but the power amp section reacts differently in that mode. Perhaps more tubbie, more sensitive to input changes from the preamp. IDK, The Horse knows and can explain it better.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Cab was rated for 500 RMS. IIRC, the 2-ohm WD800 setting limted output to 600 at 4 ohms? Anyhow, never came anywhere near discernible trouble...rarely had the volume past 11...o'clock, that is...

Yes!

 

[agedhorse]

very interesting. I dont even want to try giving rules of thumb between rms and program (google says 50%). but that would vaguely make me think traynors 2 hours “program adjacent” protocol and say markbass’s rms (aes standard) would both be similar. both cabs listed at 800w, so both could theoretically be estimated to hold 600w continuous long term no damage?

ironically my orange 410 is wlso listed at 600w and i cant quickly find their testing standards . i will hazard a guess that it is a wash. will message the manufacturers to see what they say.

Program power for a speaker is generally considered to be 2x the RMS power.

Peak power for a speaker is generally considered to be 4x the RMS power.

Peak power for an amp is generally considered to be 2x the RMS power.

This needs to be taken in context, and then some manufacturers will take additional creative liberties of course.

When building thousands of an expensive speaker product that comes with a long warranty, it’s really important to know where limitations apply.

I think part of this is not only are you changing the ohms by the switch but the power amp section reacts differently in that mode. Perhaps more tubbie, more sensitive to input changes from the preamp. IDK, The Horse knows and can explain it better.

The output tube emulation circuitry responds proportionately earlier as the power rating decreases.

 

[TTA]

Program power for a speaker is generally considered to be 2x the RMS power.

Peak power for a speaker is generally considered to be 4x the RMS power.

Peak power for an amp is generally considered to be 2x the RMS power.

This needs to be taken in context, and then some manufacturers will take additional creative liberties of course.

When building thousands of an expensive speaker product that comes with a long warranty, it’s really important to know where limitations apply.


The output tube emulation circuitry responds proportionately earlier as the power rating decreases.

makes sense. good to know the difference between peak to rms for speakers vs amps. i was unaware tge x2 fold difference. Mind you i typically run lower watt amps into higher capacity cabs… ideally matching amp power to cab rms, or maybe up to 50% less on the amp side. I will run small amps to much bigger capacity cabs also (20w h&k into 800w pjb c8), but i typically try to ensure the cabs are not at the bottom or top of their capacity. And i am running tube so not worried about clipping.

in your program to rms equivalencies, where would you expect mechanical and thermal rms to stand? i figured mechanical rms would be just above program, and thermal above that but not realistically reached before mechanical gets you.

 

[Nuisance]

I suspect OP is about to blow and cab or two........and possibly his ears....

 

[agedhorse]

makes sense. good to know the difference between peak to rms for speakers vs amps. i was unaware tge x2 fold difference. Mind you i typically run lower watt amps into higher capacity cabs… ideally matching amp power to cab rms, or maybe up to 50% less on the amp side. I will run small amps to much bigger capacity cabs also (20w h&k into 800w pjb c8), but i typically try to ensure the cabs are not at the bottom or top of their capacity. And i am running tube so not worried about clipping.

in your program to rms equivalencies, where would you expect mechanical and thermal rms to stand? i figured mechanical rms would be just above program, and thermal above that but not realistically reached before mechanical gets you.

As a generality, mechanical power handling usually ends up being around 60-70% of thermal power below ~100Hz. It depends very much on the drivers and the cabinet design.

 

[TTA]

I suspect OP is about to blow and cab or two........and possibly his ears....

start low go slow they say