A burly refinish

[bdplaid]

Let the original builder have another crack at it?

 

[Pappasgrind]

I know I'm tempted I haven't reached out but like he didn't do it in the first place….‍

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thanks so much. The top is probably 3/16 so it's not a veneer there is room for sand. I'll be honest the builder didn't nail a lot of my requests shape wise so I'm considering doing a quick reshape nothing to crazy just a little more round and contoured. I'm looking at a spray shellac for the beginning, then a few coats of aquacoat then epoxy then tru oil. I'm trying to be cost effective too I know this things a piece of art and I shouldn't be hesitating on repairing it but I also have 2 kid$!

It is a beautiful bass. I feel like some of the steps you are contemplating are redundant. Epoxy will act as a sealer and filler just fine on its own so there's no need for shellac or Aquacoat unless you're using shellac for the color but TruOil or the wipe on polyurethane mentioned above will impart a amber or yellowish color.

 

[Pappasgrind]

I f

It is a beautiful bass. I feel like some of the steps you are contemplating are redundant. Epoxy will act as a sealer and filler just fine on its own so there's no need for shellac or Aquacoat unless you're using shellac for the color but TruOil or the wipe on polyurethane mentioned above will impart a amber or yellowish color.

I feel the same too after watching YouTube and getting multiple advice. Could I get away with just epoxy and the poly?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I f
I feel the same too after watching YouTube and getting multiple advice. Could I get away with just epoxy and the poly?

I don't see why not. I know you probably don't have any of that burl but maybe find some scrap oak or something with some grain to practice the epoxy application on.

 

[Pappasgrind]

Yeah I'm Sure I can find something chunky to try it on. This is crazy right? Not something I should have to worry about after spending $3k+ on?

 

[Beej]

Usually not something you'd have to worry about, but in the custom hand-built instrument world, 3k is not huge. My 'nice' basses have over $1300 in parts alone; if fancy woods are used, add on another 2-300. Plus I use around 100 in supplies for each build, custom templates and jigs can add up to time and material costs as well. Then if you're breaking down the labour, if I'm spending 50+ hours on the thing with the last $1000, we're talking 20 bucks an hour for my time. He's not getting rich off you for sure.

Finishing is hands down the hardest and most time consuming part of any build - ask the gang here. There are tips and tricks to get there, but it's not easy to get it perfect and looking as good as your average Squier. The home hobbyist can usually get it beautiful with time and effort - emphasis on time. If you don't want to spend a lot of time getting things perfect and have steep learning curves to boot, then a custom Pat Wilkins or Marty Bell finish for $500+ (where you know it will be absolutely flawless) is well worth the money.

 

[1n3]

... Could I get away with just epoxy and the poly?

I haven't used epoxy in this way, but I'd guess that applying anything before epoxy would reduce the absorption and bonding of the epoxy. And from Bruce Johnson's post, it also sounds like the Howards will probably do the same.

Looking at the SDS and "California Cleaning Product Right to Know Act" ingredients for Howards Feed-N-Wax, it's mostly paraffinic mineral oil, with a little wax. If that IS what was used, you may need to get some of that out before epoxy can be effective.

 

[Pappasgrind]

It was definitely what was used and only used. So would I use denatured alcohol or acetone?

 

[1n3]

It was definitely what was used and only used. So would I use denatured alcohol or acetone?

Hopefully someone with more chemistry knowledge (or experience) can chime in here. That said, I probably wouldn't use either. I think it needs to be a non-polar solvent, which eliminates alcohol. Acetone is also slightly polar. Also, it's highly volatile (evaporates quickly), and is more likely to hurt your existing finish. I suppose that could also be a feature. My first thoughts would be something like Xylol or Naptha. Outdoors, of course.

 

[Pappasgrind]

Hopefully someone with more chemistry knowledge (or experience) can chime in here. That said, I probably wouldn't use either. I think it needs to be a non-polar solvent, which eliminates alcohol. Acetone is also slightly polar. Also, it's highly volatile (evaporates quickly), and is more likely to hurt your existing finish. I suppose that could also be a feature. My first thoughts would be something like Xylol or Naptha. Outdoors, of course.

I've heard acetone and denatured to remove the old finish (or some of it) but my worries are what about the glue? Wouldn't that stuff eat the glue holding the thing together?

 

[1n3]

I've heard acetone and denatured to remove the old finish (or some of it) but my worries are what about the glue? Wouldn't that stuff eat the glue holding the thing together?

Do you know what kind of glue was used?

 

[Pappasgrind]

W

Do you know what kind of glue was used?

No…maybe wood?

 

[1n3]

I wouldn't think there'd be a problem with wood glue. Acetone is a common component of lacquer thinner, and a carrier of lacquer. I haven't heard of either causing a problem with wood glue. And I'd be less concerned about light petroleum distillates.

On the other hand, I don't know how easy/practical it will be to remove enough of that Howards stuff for epoxy to be effective. My guess is, you'd need multiple applications, wiping away and re-applying. Maybe if you contacted Howards, they could give some guidance.

 

[Pappasgrind]

The wood itself seems to be pretty dry. Looking at it last night it just seems like it wasn't soaked through enough or it just dried out and started cracking. I'm gonna sand it down then assess it

 

[Bruce Johnson]

The "answer" that I've been looking for!!! Did the research. It seems PERFECT for the 3 spalted maple projects that I'm working on. Now... here's what I couldn't find...


How will it react to/effect TransTint stain, over spalted maple, and being finished with either nitro, OR poly?


Thank you,
Marc

[edit] "it" being West Systems. Sorry...
[2nd edit] I've been "afraid" to finish this "project" for over a year, for FEAR of having the REAR MOUNTED controls "break through." All of the outer imperfections have been "fixed" using SOLAREZ, and are smooth. Yes, I'm a NOOB...
Here's a picture. Any/ALL help is GREATLY appreciated in advance...
View attachment 4963375

Marc;

I'm not sure I understand your question completely, but I'll try to answer here. Mike Lipe and I also made at least a hundred guitar bodies with spalted maple tops. They were very popular with his customers. We used a similar process with the spalted maple as with the burl tops. Soaked it with Smith's CPES, coated it heavily with West Systems epoxy, block sanded back to the surface, polyester clear by Pat Wilkins. Spalted maple is soft half-rotted wood, and it has very low strength. You have to soak it with something to make it withstand the wear of a guitar.

You can tint West Systems epoxy if you like, but Trans-Tint isn't the best thing to use. It's kind of hard to get it to mix in well. I get better results using pigments like Mixol or Smooth-on's So-Strong Colorant. They just work better with epoxy. Does that answer your question?

About the danger of breaking out the control cavity: yes, that's a real problem with soft top cap bodies. Spalted maple or fancy burls are way too weak structurally to mount controls to. I always cut a 0.060" aluminum plate to fit inside the "roof" of the control cavity, and epoxy it in with West Systems. That provides the structural strength to mount the controls, and it also works as part of the shielding.

 

[J Posega]

You spent $3k on a custom bass built to your specifications, it's not built to your specifications or to the quality you'd expect of an apparently-talented builder, and you're just going to live with the fact that you didn't get your money's worth?

 

[Pappasgrind]

You spent $3k on a custom bass built to your specifications, it's not built to your specifications or to the quality you'd expect of an apparently-talented builder, and you're just going to live with the fact that you didn't get your money's worth?

Well my momma always said life is like a box of chocolates…

 

[J Posega]

Well my momma always said life is like a box of chocolates…

I don't think it's unreasonable to contact the builder and see if he can do a proper refinish for you.

 

[Pappasgrind]

So I've started my refinish. It started with routing out the pickup cavities to fit the fishmans. First time routing an instrument so I was good and nervous, so much so that I forgot my glasses and got mallee burl maced. After that I started sanding. I started with 320 and I wasn't getting the results I wanted and got my first f it moment went to 180 and then the top started to flatten out. You can see in the pictures all the high/low spots. The top was basically an uneven mess. So from 180 I went in increments all the ways up to 4000. I ended up with almost a reflection. I shop vac'd between every sanding but could only really get the bulk of it. Also on the back horn there used to be this weird point that visually drove me crazy so I reshaped that to a more round streamlined shape. At that point it was 11pm and my 5 month old would soon be awake for his first feeding not to mention I had to be up at 4am for work. The following day I drilled the pots to accommodate the larger post and then gave it a
Good mineral spirit bath. Looks better than it ever had and feels so smooth. So tonight if I don't fall asleep after the boys go to bed I'll do my first coat of
Epoxy on the top. Then maybe tomorrow night hit it again. My plan is to hit the top Atleast 3 solid coats as well as going over the rest of the body Atleast twice.