BigMikeW
Inactive
- May 25, 2005
- 2,991
- 5
- 56
- Disclosures
- Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
A Non-Sadowsky Owner's Informed Opinion
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I'm not going to go mental about my sadowsky because it hasn't arrived yet. However, I often see people complaining that sadowsky owners rave too much about their basses. So what? They love them, enjoy them and as far as they're concerned sadowsky basses are the best thing since sliced bread and why not share your appretiation here on TB where people actually understand you when you say things like RV4 of Metro UV-MW-ASH-5. They sure don't at gigs.
For the non-Sadowsky owners, the reason they get so much "hype" is because they really are "all that" IN THE MIX. The perfect frequencies come out of the Sadowsky (jazz models) that most other basses just don't have. I've had basses that sounded better at home but pale in comparison on the gig. You have to play them live before making a decision.
True!
I am a Sadowsky owner and I admit there is a lot of Sadowsky love here and elsewhere.
But..... Ernie Ball Music Man bass players are wayyyy more nuts about their basses. I mean almost to the point of being like a Saturn-esque (the car) cult. I an part of this cult too!
Check out the Ernie Ball Bass fourm and see what I mean. Fender guys can be the same as are Lakland players. Nordy, Benevente? All those owners are nuts about their instruments too.
I would chalk this up to selective recognition as there have been more than a few Sadowsky "love" threads lately.
P.S. I love my FRIGGIN SADOWSKY!!!!!!! They are the best!!!
I dunno, I've been sold on Sadowsky ever since I spent a few minutes with a friend's four-stringer a few months ago -- though I have to clarify that:
It's definitely not a purchase dictated by my head or my wallet. I don't think that paying for a company's NYC rent and standard-of-living costs make a bass 'worth' the excess cost, and I don't necessarily think that It's going to be the best way to spend my hard-earned money. I definitely think that you can hit a better value/cost ratio with other basses. Hell, I don't even think that suggesting a Sadowsky to a guy who's asking for a Fender sound is appropriate, and I find it irritating how every second thread where someone wants Fendery goodness without the QC issues, someone suggests a Metro. If I'm looking for a cool J-bass or P-bass tone, I'll go with a Lakland.
But Roger and his lads have a great image for customer service, and they post here. They're involved in the community and ain't shy about talking about the business. And a couple of weeks ago, I fired them a question about a bass they have on the site. On a Saturday. Right before leaving for a gig. When I got home at 3:30 in the morning, I found that Kevin they'd answered me at 3:15.
That, plus the fact that the axes are just beautiful, make Sadowsky a company I want to support. So I'm saving my pennies, and I have a paper up on the wall with the specific features I want on mine...
It's definitely not a purchase dictated by my head or my wallet. I don't think that paying for a company's NYC rent and standard-of-living costs make a bass 'worth' the excess cost, and I don't necessarily think that It's going to be the best way to spend my hard-earned money. I definitely think that you can hit a better value/cost ratio with other basses. Hell, I don't even think that suggesting a Sadowsky to a guy who's asking for a Fender sound is appropriate, and I find it irritating how every second thread where someone wants Fendery goodness without the QC issues, someone suggests a Metro. If I'm looking for a cool J-bass or P-bass tone, I'll go with a Lakland.
But Roger and his lads have a great image for customer service, and they post here. They're involved in the community and ain't shy about talking about the business. And a couple of weeks ago, I fired them a question about a bass they have on the site. On a Saturday. Right before leaving for a gig. When I got home at 3:30 in the morning, I found that Kevin they'd answered me at 3:15.
That, plus the fact that the axes are just beautiful, make Sadowsky a company I want to support. So I'm saving my pennies, and I have a paper up on the wall with the specific features I want on mine...
Joeykun
pronounced ジョーイくん
- Jun 22, 2007
- 4,200
- 16,146
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: LAKLAND SADOWSKY GENZLER DARKGLASS NORDSTRAND TEMPLEBOARD KIRLIN DRSTRINGS ACCESS
But..... Ernie Ball Music Man bass players are wayyyy more nuts about their basses. I mean almost to the point of being like a Saturn-esque (the car) cult. I an part of this cult too!
Man, don't get me started... Cool basses, though. The one that gets my goat is the Rickenbacker religion, though. Since the price jump, they're a small-run bass (which is cool) for the price of a custom job (which makes them less cool). And the converted are completely zealous, too! I mean, guys! Relax!
Er, that's a flamed maple fingerboard, not the neck...
What? You think that sweet little kid would lie about the neck being flamed or not? You are one mean dude.
Guilty as charged. apparently that'll all change when I've got shorties of my own, but for now I'm all 'Grrr...' 
I own an EBMM and a Sadowsky. Going by the tone of some posts, I must go around every thread and go nuts!
Considering there's no bass arbiter out there, I think people should just play what they like.
Considering there's no bass arbiter out there, I think people should just play what they like.
first off all, i'd like to make it very clear that i'm not bashing sadowsky, they are great basses.
a bit further down the thread there is a statement, which as been said may times before here, that 'in the mix they (sadowskys) are perfect'. as true as that may be, what's perfect in the mix depends a lot more on the sound guy than the actual bass. the fact that someone spent a lot of money on a bass means that that person is very conscious about sound/tone, so that person might be more demanding when it comes to the mix and thus spends more time/money/energy on the mix than someone who plays an SX. imo the actual instrument played is not that important.
as an example, if you play in a band with an acoustic guitar, the mix of the guitar itself will have much greater effect on the bass and how it can be heard than what instrument you play.
my point is that pretty much any bass can sound perfect/bad in the mix. (have you heard jason newsted?
it's the mix (of the other instruments in the band) and not what bass he plays). i mainly play a stingray and there are things i like about it and some i don't like so much. it's not perfect and nothing is when it comes to art imo. it's just my perception that the sadowsky crowd is very quick with such blanket statements as 'it's perfect....' these kind of statements about other brands are of course just as invalid.
what's perfect for you may well not be for me. also, if we have the same discussion in 50 years time we will probably have changed our minds about what is 'perfect' for us and what isn't.
first off all, i'd like to make it very clear that i'm not bashing sadowsky, they are great basses.
a bit further down the thread there is a statement, which as been said may times before here, that 'in the mix they (sadowskys) are perfect'. as true as that may be, what's perfect in the mix depends a lot more on the sound guy than the actual bass. the fact that someone spent a lot of money on a bass means that that person is very conscious about sound/tone, so that person might be more demanding when it comes to the mix and thus spends more time/money/energy on the mix than someone who plays an SX. imo the actual instrument played is not that important.
as an example, if you play in a band with an acoustic guitar, the mix of the guitar itself will have much greater effect on the bass and how it can be heard than what instrument you play.
my point is that pretty much any bass can sound perfect/bad in the mix. (have you heard jason newsted?
i mainly play a stingray and there are things i like about it and some i don't like so much. it's not perfect and nothing is when it comes to art imo. it's just my perception that the sadowsky crowd is very quick with such blanket statements as 'it's perfect....' these kind of statements about other brands are of course just as invalid.
what's perfect for you may well not be for me. also, if we have the same discussion in 50 years time we will probably have changed our minds about what is 'perfect' for us and what isn't.
From an engineering standpoint (I am an engineer as well as musician) I have to weigh how everything affects everything else in a mix whether it be the bass track or the garbage can top track. Keep in mind that a lot of what you hear on a record is not what you might think it is. The Beatles first songs were recorded in mono and as time passed they moved on to 4 track and so forth. Today it seems that MOST larger projects are well over 50 or 60 tracks, with many going well over 100 tracks....
I think for many people, (at least for me) the ability to "sit or cut" through a mix is not such a given. Sadowskys are very popular with studio players because short of plugging into a good DI and playing the take, there is VERY little that has to be done to the track to make the bass track not only pop out but stand out in a mix. This is what people are referring to when they say it "sits in the mix". I have had thousands of sessions that were a chore because the bass was muddy or the drums were not properly tuned or the singer couldn't sing in tune. BUT I have NEVER had a session where someone was using a Sadowsky and the bass didn't track effortlessly. I can't say the same about many brands of basses, Fenders being one of the exceptions.
I think that is why the Sadowsky is a modern interpretation of a Fender styled instrument. Back in the days BEFORE there were 100 different GREAT Basses and Brilliant bass builders there were only a VERY FEW and Fender was one of them. What gets lost is that Roger has been building basses for what, 30 years? I don't think there was a fervor like the one we see here until the last few years. Roger has enjoyed success over the years but I don't think his instruments have been presented to the general populace of bass players until just the last few years with the advent of Talkbass and other Forums.
Mind you, I agree that if someone were looking for a Vintage Fender sound Sadowsky would not be the first recommendation I would make. I don't think Sadowskys sound like Fenders nor do I think they sound like much of anything else either (at least not in MY hands). The Sadowsky is a tool, nothing more and nothing less. I consider it an integral component of my tool box along with my Alleva and my Laklands. I own 3 Sadowskys and they all do a different job. I am indeed guilty of extolling their virtues at the drop of a hat but not because I HAVE to. But because I want to. I was VERY hesitant to drop the coin for my first one (thanks in large part to bikeplate's help I am VERY glad I did!!!) It is because of my own doubt and hesitation that I make sure that I get the word out whenever I can.
I am eternally thankfull that I found Sadowsky just as I am that I found Alleva-Coppolo just as I am that I found Lakland, Bergantino, Aguilar and Thunderfunk! Each one of my instruments, amps, and speaker cabs contributes a different color to my sonic canvas. I consider my amps and speakers to be the canvas I paint on and my basses to be the brushes I use. However, I am fully aware that the next guy prefers different paints and certainly different brushes! Interestingly enough though, I find that I can't help but want to share different "colors" I have found with guys who may never have painted with them before. In this case the colors are musical instruments but the art is still art. The thing about art is that one man's masterpiece is another man's toliet paper....
In the end, I feel very blessed that I have both the means and the ability to create the art I do in the manner I choose. Let's face it, our tools may be different but hopefully we are both creating our own masterpieces in our own unique way...
Peace,
T
A few points I think these threads always wind up with...
1.) There's a reason there are so many brands at so many levels, and a reason why less expensive basses sell just like the more expensive ones do.
2.) Not everyone appreciates the diffs between a high end and a low end bass enough to pay for them. That doesn't mean folks that spend the money on the higher end stuff are foolish for doing so, it just means some things are important to them that aren't important to others, and just because not all of them are musical, doesn't mean they're worthless just because they happen to be on a musical instrument.
3.) Some of the non-musical diffs are things like uber fancy and/or rare woods, attention to minute detail, hardware window dressing, inlay, etc.. All that is a form of art, and as such, is subjectively worth quite a bit to the right buyer.
4.) Some of the diffs are musical, but maybe not worth the price diff to all, depending on the sensitivity to detail of the player. That's not a slam on more fundamental players, but just as those people aren't idiots, just because someone else is more discerning also doesn't make them a fool with their money.
And the ultimate one we always come to...
5.) It's just personal prefs, and requires no justification to anyone else, and if the basses weren't truly worth it in some way shape or form, they wouldn't exist, because they wouldn't sell, and the companies would go out of business.
And my perpetual question...
Why do folks feel the need to be critical of higher end basses (and indirectly the folks that buy them... whether they thought about that side effect or not) just because they aren't into the diffs that make them so? There's just no need for it, just like there's no need to feel like it's wrong or get defensive about the fact that someone's 100% happy with a $400 bass!
Just play the instrument that inspires you most and be happy.
1.) There's a reason there are so many brands at so many levels, and a reason why less expensive basses sell just like the more expensive ones do.
2.) Not everyone appreciates the diffs between a high end and a low end bass enough to pay for them. That doesn't mean folks that spend the money on the higher end stuff are foolish for doing so, it just means some things are important to them that aren't important to others, and just because not all of them are musical, doesn't mean they're worthless just because they happen to be on a musical instrument.
3.) Some of the non-musical diffs are things like uber fancy and/or rare woods, attention to minute detail, hardware window dressing, inlay, etc.. All that is a form of art, and as such, is subjectively worth quite a bit to the right buyer.
4.) Some of the diffs are musical, but maybe not worth the price diff to all, depending on the sensitivity to detail of the player. That's not a slam on more fundamental players, but just as those people aren't idiots, just because someone else is more discerning also doesn't make them a fool with their money.
And the ultimate one we always come to...
5.) It's just personal prefs, and requires no justification to anyone else, and if the basses weren't truly worth it in some way shape or form, they wouldn't exist, because they wouldn't sell, and the companies would go out of business.
And my perpetual question...
Why do folks feel the need to be critical of higher end basses (and indirectly the folks that buy them... whether they thought about that side effect or not) just because they aren't into the diffs that make them so? There's just no need for it, just like there's no need to feel like it's wrong or get defensive about the fact that someone's 100% happy with a $400 bass!
Just play the instrument that inspires you most and be happy.
I don't mean to dump on anyone here but, comparing a Cort to a Sadowsky is a lot of wishful thinking. Corts may be great basses for $600 but they don't hold a candle to a Sadowsky... NYC or Metro.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I don't give a damn if you are sorry or not. I was there and I heard my bass, and more to the point, a room full of TB'ers heard my bass. My Cort did not sound like a Sadowsky, it is a 55-94 style bass, not a dual soapbar bass, but it sounded great compared to the Sadowsky modern. If you can't believe that, don't. It doesn't change what I experienced, and it doesn't change the fact that some fine players, including some serious pros, were genuinely inpressed with my Cort.
Frankly, you are exhibiting the kind of highend snobbishness that some posters were refering to. I won't insult Sadowsky owners by singling them out because any brand fanatic can be a snob, but you certainly came off as the kind of person who hears the name on the headstock instead of the sound coming out of the speakers.
True!
I am a Sadowsky owner and I admit there is a lot of Sadowsky love here and elsewhere.
But..... Ernie Ball Music Man bass players are wayyyy more nuts about their basses. I mean almost to the point of being like a Saturn-esque (the car) cult. I an part of this cult too!
Fender guys can be the same as are Lakland players. Nordy, Benevente? All those owners are nuts about their instruments too.
I would chalk this up to selective recognition as there have been more than a few Sadowsky "love" threads lately.
P.S. I love my FRIGGIN SADOWSKY!!!!!!! They are the best!!!
As a person who has owned about seven MusicMan basses, I have to agree.
I remember when I posted on the EB/MM forum that I felt that Stingrays should have a passive bypass like Laklands, folks got so mad, I thought i had talked about their Mommas!
Also, don't mention the 19mm string spacing thing unless you want an earful too.
Dr Cheese. I don't doubt you. I just took delivery of my Metro 4 and Its a nice bass.
It isn't going to bring world peace or cure cancer, but it's a nice bass. I will live with it for a while before I make any conclusions
It isn't going to bring world peace or cure cancer, but it's a nice bass. I will live with it for a while before I make any conclusions
T-Most, one other thing. I am a mature enough person that I have no need to make my bass the "equal" of Sadowsky. If the Sadowsky had blown away my Cort, fine. When I a/b'ed them, it just didn't happen that way. if you had a/b'ed them, you might have had an entirely different opinion. That would be cool with me too. What pissed me off is the notion that I am somehow wishing a result. I am not so hung up on my gear that I need to do something like that, and I am insulted that you suggested such a thing.
....came off as the kind of person who hears the name on the headstock instead of the sound coming out of the speakers.
This is very common in all walks of life, and I'm sure I am guilty of it on occasion as well. It happened to me with an Epifani UL502 compared to the Markbass LMII. After extensive testing through gigs and rehearsals, the LMII won me over. Before I even heard the LMII, I had a very hard time believing that it could even compete with the UL502, nevermind replace it in my arsenal. But after many hours of comparing, the LMII came out on top for me and I sold the UL502.
This to me is a perfect example of seeing an top name brand with a high price tag and simply assuming it to be better than a lesser name brand with a much lower price tag. And this is my own experience, not me witnessing it from the outside.
