A serious real life situation where i need advice

[Geddyfleaharris]

Wes,

As a Christian - this should have all been a no-brainer.

No rocks here, just think about it.

Mark

Actually no rocks from my end either but what does being Christian have anything to do with it? Be moral yes but I don't think that Christianity is even part of the story. There are legal aspects (yes I know it is just 2 mics) that prevail over being Christian. If being Christian means the OP has to put himself in between Easy and the music store (in the scenario that Easy shows up looking for his gear) then I can't buy that line of thinking. The OP does have right to look out for himself, Christian or not.

Just because someone phones you up or sends an email saying they want an item that you have in your possession returned to them IMO unless they can PROVE said item is theirs I would hold onto the item until true ownership is proven.

Interesting thread. Probably a little overblown for 2 mics but replace mics with $1000 dollar bass that you have paid Easy for and see where things end up. I think there is a lesson here for all of us.

As to the mics I would have been tempted to just return them to avoid the ridiculous hassle of fighting with the music store after the first contact. But I reconsidered that after the first poster (page 2?) that said the music store should prove they are their mics and that the music store's fight is actually with Easy. That post changed my thinking dramatically.

 

[john_g]

I dont think you have any right to keep the mics and I still am unsure of how they found out you have them...? Maybe I missed that part. Anyway, you are under NO obligation to deliver them to the store, especially if it is 45 minutes away. I would do exactly like you did, tell them they could pick them up or pay for UPS or FEDEX to pick it up at your house at their expense. No way would I drive 45 minutes to deliver them at $4+ a gallon. And, yes, cops could get involved. Once/if they call the cops, they most likely will try to do something to resolve the issue.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

If the store guys are still being pricks I would tell them to pick them up. Then after there 45 minute drive I would ask them the serial numbers in person and if they know give the mics to them. If they don't (most likely) then i would tell them to come back again when they have the serial numbers LOL

 

[Stumbo]

Maybe I missed it, but I guess Easy put them on to you from wherever he is to get them off his back. How else would they know about it. Now about the 3 mics and stands, why would they believe you had them if they weren't getting info from somebody.

OP, why did you change your mind this late in the game?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I changed mind just because i want to see this done and over.

I also have a goal of being hired as a law enforcement officer, and with the extensive background checks involved with that, decided that it wasn't worth dragging it out and putting that goal in danger.

They would have found out and if I did anything that was less than honest in their judgment then they might have a reason to doubt my integrity and toss me out of the process. Not that I was wrong to fight it but because they can use any little thing to choose someone else over you. If it was down to me and another guy and we were equal except for a incident like this, I would lose. So I don't want it out there to be used against me.

I would have really been willing to work with the store owners on this had they just been cool about it but the first communication from them threatened me. I have had multiple people tell me that no cop would ever come to my door and that this is not a stolen property issue. I offered to buy them and they said pay us full price. I just got pissed and wanted to play hardball until some people advised me that it might put my future in danger.
In the beginning of this thread people said, "Aren't you worried about your rep and your rep with the store." I am not. They have ruined their rep with me, and I go way back with these people. Oh well. Things are cheaper online anyways with free shipping, and I got gigs out the wazoo. So they can put that in their pipe and smoke it. They can have a blast with those freakin mics and go sing karaoke in the shower for all I care, because after I drop them off, they will never see me again unless they come to a gig. I also just decided to man up and lay down the pride of trying to win and get this over with quickly and call it done, not out of fear of police or morality but just because I no longer want to have this as a stress or something I will need to monitor.

Thanks to everyone who replied and gave advice. I appreciate them all, and BTW The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.

 

[fenderhutz]

I also have a goal of being hired as a law enforcement officer, and with the extensive background checks involved with that, decided that it wasn't worth dragging it out and putting that goal in danger.

They would have found out and if I did anything that was less than honest in their judgment then they might have a reason to doubt my integrity and toss me out of the process. Not that I was wrong to fight it but because they can use any little thing to choose someone else over you. If it was down to me and another guy and we were equal except for a incident like this, I would lose. So I don't want it out there to be used against me.

You realize you are doing the equivalent of driving someone elses car back to the bank for a repossession without telling the person that got the loan. Right?

:scowl:

 

[PastorofMuppets]

You realize you are doing the equivalent of driving someone elses car back to the bank for a repossession without telling the person that got the loan. Right?

:scowl:

i know they have proof, which i will be seeing at the store
I also know Big Easy, He is GONE moved from indiana to arizona
he is never coming back and could care less about anything here.
he did not pay off the layaway the mics Do belong to the store
therefore I am doing the right thing

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Uh, layaway means they hold them for you until you pay.

I've gotta say, you're really flip-flopping on this. One moment, it's "screw them", then it's "I'll bring them back", then it's "I'll charge them storage fees", then it's "I'll bring them back", then it's "they can have them, but they have to come and pick them up".

By the way, I highly doubt anything related to this would ever jeopardize your ability to become a police officer.

 

[Johnny Mack]

...I also have a goal of being hired as a law enforcement officer...

oh great, maybe you can take out all your losses and angers that you "usually" have on the public by protecting and serving... remind me not to move to indiana.

...takes a certain breed...

 

[Busker]

i changed my mind again
i will deliver everything monday morning

"Everything" sounds like more than just two mics. I haven't read every post, but I think I read that you did only have the two mics, even though the store assumed, or was told, that you had more that just the two mics, right?

I'd just give it back, and deliver it, especially if the store can show documentation. Although I don't think the store has any reason to lie about it. I mean, a retail establishment just isn't going to email someone telling them that merchandise has been defaulted on and needs to be returned promptly unless that were the case.

 

[ZoomBoy]

I would have really been willing to work with the store owners on this had they just been cool about it but the first communication from them threatened me.

I'm sure that something to the same effect has been said in other replies but do ya think that this line might have set them off a bit?

"I replied to the email by saying that, the mics have been mine for 1.5 years and no one ever tried to get them. I said possession is 9/10ths of the law and I would be keeping them."

If I were the guys at this store I be asking myself who is this *******? Betcha someone in the know dropped the dime on you and your possession of the mics etc...

Are a couple SM58s really worth all this hassle?

Jeff

 

[JmJ]

update the store owner just sent this


Wes,

This is Russ, not Bryan. It is my understanding that you have at least three mics and a mic stand, I have read your emails to Bryan. Let me make it clear; this property belongs to R&R Music, and you were aware of this. If you do not bring it back by Monday, I will call the police and report this stolen property and show them the emails. What surprises me is the lack of common decency. I am not coming to your house to get them, you are to bring them to the store Monday between 11:00 A.M and 8:00 P.M.

Thanks,
Russ B***


my reply is as follows. BTW i could care less about my rep with the store

Either the police or an R&R employee may come get them at my home Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon between 12 noon and 3 PM.
I will NOT under any circumstances deliver the mics to the store. I only am aware of two mics anyway, I have no other mics or stands in my possession. I will supply my address once you have agreed to my terms. You can take it or leave it. I will not inconvenience myself in this situation.

Wes

I like that threat from the stores owner. These mic's do not have serial numbers I presume. The cops won't come near this one without absolute proof that these are the same microphones. Store owner should send you a return label to send them back, as some one previously suggested. In this case, without serial numbers, it's his word against yours. You should send them back & steer clear of that store.

 

[subtomic]

I think the real lesson here is never play in a band with someone named "easy."

 

[bluestarbass]

I was waiting till the end. I was hoping this was all about a matched set of vintage u87s or something, man that would have made the story. Not that I shop at that music store, you must not really live in indianapolis cuz isnt that music store in bloomington? Anyway I understand you didnt handle it perfectly, but I would have been fuming if they would have threatened me like that. I will definately never buy anything from this music store again.

 

[fenderhutz]

So is the Pastor of Muppets in jail now or what?

 

[Pandafist]

I think the real lesson here is never play in a band with someone named "easy."

PERFECT!

 

[Top_Ten]

I haven't read every post in this thread, don't know all of the facts, don't know the law of the state where you live, and am not offering you legal advice. That said, the basic legal question here is whether the mics were "abandoned" or not.

The law may vary from state to state, but generally "abandonment" of property is the relinquishment of possession with an intent to terminate all ownership interests in that property. Abandonment may occur by throwing away the property, by losing it and making no attempt to retrieve it, by vacating the property with no intention of returning to it, or by any other act manifesting a complete disclaimer of ownership in the property. The general effect of abandonment is to give full ownership of the property to the first taker.

Were the mics legally "abandoned" such that you can take possession of them yourself and defeat the store's claim? That's a question that will depend on a lot of facts going to the issue of the store's intent -- e.g., has the store been actively trying to get the money or the mics back every since your friend took off, etc. If they have been pursuing the mics, then you would have a hard time proving that they intended to terminate their ownership interests.

One thing I do not believe you have to worry about, however, is getting hauled off to jail. This does not seem to be a criminal matter. You did not steal the mics and the police are very unlikely to get involved in what seems to be an entirely civil dispute. If the store reports the mics stolen, they arguably would be making a false police report as well as possibly committing defamation against you (by falsely accusing you of a crime).

In practical terms, it probably isn't worth fighting about -- just give the mics back and be done with it, and you'll probably end up sleeping better.

 

[TOOL460002]

do not meet half way. you do not owe them your time or your gas money or the mileage on your vehicle. if anything they are in your debt for time wasted and unnecessary stress.

suggestion- send them COD for the cost of shipping plus COD charges. i cant imagine how that would be a problem. probably cheaper than gas anyway so everybody wins. yay.

the store cant track down the financially responsible party and is extremely lucky that you happen to have them. they could have ended up elsewhere and then theyd have nothing.

 

[D.Don]

i know they have proof, which i will be seeing at the store
I also know Big Easy, He is GONE moved from indiana to arizona
he is never coming back and could care less about anything here.
he did not pay off the layaway the mics Do belong to the store
therefore I am doing the right thing

... and dont forget the mic stand and that third mic ...



What will happen if they try to force you for "the rest" of the gear?

D.Don

 

[SubXero]

It really does sorta sound like the store is trying to screw you over...I'm really surprised that a serious retail business would be throwing that much of a fit over $230 worth of microphones that were bought on credit. It seems outrageous, honestly. Maybe if these were $500 a piece mics or something, but $230 for a pair? that's not exactly the most expensive microphones in the world. I doubt the police would even care about ~$200 of goods that never got paid for on credit, none the less come to your house over it. This isn't big bucks we're talking here. The only thing I can think of that would make them so uptight about this is if maybe he made off with much more than just 2 (or 3) mics and the store is just trying to get whatever they can back...If so, they should have explained it better and not have been so harsh with you. Regardless, it doesn't sound like they are being very honest with you.

Their business was never with you, so I find it even crazier they'd come at you the way they did. They could say you stole them, but your buddy not paying his credit card bill isn't exactly the same thing as him walking into a store and stealing them. And honestly, if they were stolen by some random shoplifter, how would they know who it was or where they lived? It doesn't sound like a very believable story and I think the police would pick up on this as well...Lying to the police in the first place is definitely not a good way to get to the police on your side and honestly that's the only thing they could even attempt to do to get the police to pay you a visit. If they told the actual story to them, there's no way in hell that the police would even bother. Plain and simple, that's not really their job anyway. They are not debt collectors.

They should have taken it up with a debt collection agency or what not and truth of the matter is, they couldn't come after you with one of those since you never made the original purchase anyway. I sort of feeling they are acting tough because they have nothing else to lose at this point. They probably have no other avenue to get the money on this, except for you handing them over by choice.If you really want to make good with them though then I'd say, have them pay for you to ship them back. I would not bring them back to the store, that's probably the last place I'd want to be after being treated like that...