A Thought About P Basses in the Studio

[Bass Motifs]

Gonna go out on a limb, but P bass sound and neck invites "solid" playing. Good for recording. Jazz bass neck and tone invites other styles. Huge generalization. Bit like comparing a muscle car to a performance one. Big block, push rod, high torque V8, or high rev, DOHC straight 6 or V12. Both get around the track, just differently.

What would Steve McQueen play?

 

[mikeswals]

Anyone who has played a J bass with single coil pickups knows what happens if the blend of the pups isn't even, or if your fingers aren't making contact with the strings and acting as a ground...60 cycle hum. Now shielding can mitigate this to great effect, and I am not sure when cats first started to shield their basses, but shielding isn't 100% full proof.

For J basses two perfect examples are Jaco and Joe Osborn; Jaco used rear pickup, Joe used front, and you can't hear any annoying hums from either one's recordings.
And then there's Verdine White and Wilton Felder; both used 68/69 era Telecaster basses, and again, no weird hums there.

You forgot the 3rd element... P's were cheaper than J's. I bet a $100 bill, that with the old "go get a Fender" recommendation back in those days, tons of folks walked into the store and simply asked "what's the cheapest Fender I can get"

 

[BlueTalon]

Pretty much every J bass I've picked up is just as quiet as any P Bass. Even if you favor one pickup over the other, the noise floor is typically still less egregious than the guy next to you with a single coil tele pushing an AC30 hard. Most bass players don't push the gain stages of amps, and in my experience as a producer it's never been an issue what bass a guy comes in with.



Meh. I think most producers that chase minutia are hacks, tbh. If I can't hear an issue in the mix, I don't sweat it. Once the drums come in they really overpower any guitar hum that might be in the mix. The primary goal as a producer is to get a great performance out of the talent, and if you ice them for 20-40 minutes chasing some phantoms no one is going to hear in the finished product, you're defeating your own purpose.



Little to none, I imagine.



Again, probably little to none.



I think what made the P more prevalent is that it has historically been cheaper than the J. Working professionals of all trades and disciplines typically tend to favor the bang/buck equation for tools and equipment. I don't think it was until the 90s that the large majority of producers started to laud the fact that you can EQ a P Bass to fit into most mixes. This is by benefit of the fact that the Ps give you a lot of mids, so no matter what you have to cut to make room from keys, brass, sax, whatever, there was still plenty of mids to sit the bass in the mix wherever you want. I think from there, a lot of us retconned the history to assume that producers in the 60s felt the same way, but I doubt they did. Most producers in the 60s were still wrapping their heads around how to mix in stereo, I doubt they cared about how one instrument sounded.

This is one of those posts I wish I could thumbs-up multiple times.

 

[Baker69]

I don't believe we have 60 cycle hum in the UK because the frequency of our electricity grid is different - 50 Hz

Adding to what you are saying, I'm also here in the U.K. and have owned 5 Jazz Basses over the years, all of which have been pretty noiseless.

 

[Wood and Wire]

VHS versus Betamax. We all know how that turned out for Sony.

Yeah, they dominated the professional broadcast industry for the next 30 years, with Betacam, before pivoting to digital, and doing pretty well there.

 

[TheArchitect]

Yes, so...what was the impetus for the Jazz Bass sound if as the interwebs would have us all accept, the P was the be all end all of EB tone from back when the earth's crust was formed? Was he really trying to "improve" on the P, or exploring a different thang?

He was trying to build something fancier he could sell to the fancier crowd that is the jazz musician.. Its called a jazz for a reason

 

[SteveC]

I've also seen books for musicals that specifically say "Fender Bass" but not necessarily Precision or Jazz. Fender is generally considered the first electric bass. Sometimes being first (and popular with the "in" studio musicians) doesn't hurt.

 

[TheArchitect]

I don't believe we have 60 cycle hum in the UK because the frequency of our electricity grid is different - 50 Hz

YEs, you have 50 cycle hum...

 

[TheArchitect]

The elctric bass was not invented in the 1950s[/QUO

Call it genius or call it dumb luck, but Leo's Precision Bass just sits easily in a mix in ways that basses with bridge pickups usually don't. It's the EASY button for engineers. Even more so if the Precision Bass has flatwounds. That configuration is just very hard to beat when there are bigger fish to fry (vocals, cymbals..).

John

Did it? Or did they just learn where to slot other instruments in around them?

 

[Dlew919]

It may just come down to the fact that most hit pop music, regardless of the name of artist on the record, was done by a small collection of regionally dispersed players called studio musicians. The 'group' may record the b-sides but most professional studio musicians laid down the tracks for the hits, minus recognizable vocals. With few exceptions has any group or artist wrested total control over their creations until they really proved their worth through first, selling lotsa records.

This has been the way in the recording industry since its creation. Time is money and the studio executives and producers- pros just went with just works.

A few studio musicians just use common tools. It was their creative talent that made those phones ring.

I wonder if drummers on their forums obsess upon a certain kind of Slingerland, Rogers, or Ludwig snare drum because of a particular collection of recordings?

As far as I can see, drummers don't obsess over their gear like bassists or guitarists. Drum reviews tend to be short and to the point. Yet bass and guitar reviews can be two hours looking at every single piece of minutiae. This is not to say drummers don't care deeply about their gear. They just don't express it in the way others do. At least on line.

 

[retslock]

Yeah, they dominated the professional broadcast industry for the next 30 years, with Betacam, before pivoting to digital, and doing pretty well there.

Yes they had the industry sorted out but for home video VHS overran them even though the beta system was a better product.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I'm a life long Precision player who's gotten interested in messing around with a Jazz bass, but as someone who usually plays with some dirt, I'm really wary of the noise from the Jazz's singles. With a guitar you can kind of incorporate the noise depending on genre, but a really noisy bass signal is not great.

I think you'll be ok...

 

[Scarysharkface]

Did it? Or did they just learn where to slot other instruments in around them?

As one who's worked in the studio and done a bunch of live sound over the years, the biggest source of conflict for me has been the attack of the bass matching the snap of the kick drum. Switching to neck pickup, or to a Precision, softens the bass attack naturally in a way that it blooms after the thump of the kick. Throw on a set of flatwounds, and the bass just stays out of everyone's way. That's just my personal, anecdotal experience, sure, but it's kind of an amazing little pill that I, an owner of some rather expensive basses, really had a difficult time swallowing. Is it the vehicle for optimal artistic expression? Probably not.

John

 

[munnkyboy]

The Choices for players during that time...were limited...and Fender was first to Market with a product that really worked. And still does. Not really a mystery.

 

[TheArchitect]

As one who's worked in the studio and done a bunch of live sound over the years, the biggest source of conflict for me has been the attack of the bass matching the snap of the kick drum. Switching to neck pickup, or to a Precision, softens the bass attack naturally in a way that it blooms after the thump of the kick. Throw on a set of flatwounds, and the bass just stays out of everyone's way. That's just my personal, anecdotal experience, sure, but it's kind of an amazing little pill that I, an owner of some rather expensive basses, really had a difficult time swallowing. Is it the vehicle for optimal artistic expression? Probably not.

John

Interesting comment... I used to have a lower end Ibanez SR bass that I bought specifically for bright toned slap style playing. It played very well but I could never get it to sound right in a track. I was about to sell it but somehow stumbled on the idea of trying flats on it so I did. It was not much of a slapper with flats but all of a sudden it fit well in every track I used it on. You could really bring it up in the mix and it never got in the way but was still very clear in the mix. I have always wondered if its the flat wounds, more so than the P Bass they were on, that created the magic in that combo in the early days

 

[dirtychinchilla]

YEs, you have 50 cycle hum...

I don't believe we do, though.

 

[ad9000]

For J basses two perfect examples are Jaco and Joe Osborn; Jaco used rear pickup, Joe used front, and you can't hear any annoying hums from either one's recordings"

I hate to answer a question with a question, but even before I saw this reply the original post made me wonder how Osborn dealt with single coil hum, living only on the neck pickup as he did. I'd think it had to be an issue on some occasions.