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A Thought About P Basses in the Studio
- Thread starter faulknersj
- Start date
I think there's greater variety in how different Jazzes sound, than you find with P's. For example I have 2--one is pretty scooped sounding with everything dimed, to the point of the mids pretty much disappearing in a dense mix. Another has quite defined punchy mids with everything dimed and "sits in the mix" great that way, all up and down the range of the instrument--very even and consistent(and it's a 70's PU configuration too). As I say earlier it's the tightest most mid-focused setting on that bass. I dare say it could be mistaken for a P in some mixes (unless you pluck right over the bridge pickup).
I also have a couple P's---flats and rounds and different pickups FWIW - and in a dense mix where the nuance of the different strings isn't jumping out, they sound pretty much the same as far as where the mids are and the "sit in the mix" factor.
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The elctric bass was not invented in the 1950s
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Never noticed a difference between indoor and out personally, even when I've run FOH(been a while though)--P's just do the P thang in my experience (keeping in mind the different variables overall of outdoor vs indoor, different rooms, etc).
The P Bass pretty much only became the standard in the US due to the Wrecking Crew and the Motown being at the forefront of studios when the electric bass really was there. As a result, every engineer had to learn how to dial that one in, and so it became the standard.
Around the world it was much more varied. I was amazed to hear on Talkbass that they were asked to use a P Bass or that it was a requirement for a studio musician. I never heard that in Europe.
Another thing that is underestimated is that the P bass DI only adding a compressor and a bit of saturation sounds a lot better than a Jazz bass one if you use the DI only (like Motown did). Since microphones often picked up boomy sounds, the DI was often preferred to get a more focused sound. Nowadays it is no problem, but back then the IRs didn't really exist. In Japan you basically only hear Jazz Basses and in metal p basses are rare as well.
But today I find the argument for using a P Bass ridiculous. Using IRs /parallel distortion etc you can shape the sound how you want. You can do 30db + boosts/cut without adding any artefacts.
Around the world it was much more varied. I was amazed to hear on Talkbass that they were asked to use a P Bass or that it was a requirement for a studio musician. I never heard that in Europe.
Another thing that is underestimated is that the P bass DI only adding a compressor and a bit of saturation sounds a lot better than a Jazz bass one if you use the DI only (like Motown did). Since microphones often picked up boomy sounds, the DI was often preferred to get a more focused sound. Nowadays it is no problem, but back then the IRs didn't really exist. In Japan you basically only hear Jazz Basses and in metal p basses are rare as well.
But today I find the argument for using a P Bass ridiculous. Using IRs /parallel distortion etc you can shape the sound how you want. You can do 30db + boosts/cut without adding any artefacts.
There weren't that many professional quality electric basses early on. Fender got in to the electric bass scene very early, and in a near universal way. It was to such a degree that "electric bass" and "Fender bass" were synonymous – just like people in England call any vacuum a Hoover, and we call any hook-and-loop Velcro, any sticky note a Post-it, and any photo copy a Xerox. The AFM ("musician's union") officially credited electric bass sessions as "Fender bass" for decades. It wasn't a reference to the exact bass being used; it was simply the term used for any electric bass part. This terminology was also used among musicians; I can remember my dad using it.
Plenty of guitars and basses with hum have been recorded; that isn't really a factor. And IME, producers tend to be the more coarse idea people, while musicians and engineers worry about the minute technical details. No producer has ever told me what instrument to play, but plenty of engineers, and myself, have suggested or made technical adjustments to my or my bandmates' instruments in the studio, to help achieve what the producer wanted.
Any bass "sits in the mix" where the engineer (under the direction of others, often) tells it to sit in the mix. Studios have innumerable controls to alter your sound any way they see fit. As long as you're playing a fairly average bass (i.e. not an octave up bass, or an A–C bass), and playing it with the desired attack and level of cleanliness, a skilled producer doesn't need to micromanage your gear selection to get what they want.
Plenty of guitars and basses with hum have been recorded; that isn't really a factor. And IME, producers tend to be the more coarse idea people, while musicians and engineers worry about the minute technical details. No producer has ever told me what instrument to play, but plenty of engineers, and myself, have suggested or made technical adjustments to my or my bandmates' instruments in the studio, to help achieve what the producer wanted.
Any bass "sits in the mix" where the engineer (under the direction of others, often) tells it to sit in the mix. Studios have innumerable controls to alter your sound any way they see fit. As long as you're playing a fairly average bass (i.e. not an octave up bass, or an A–C bass), and playing it with the desired attack and level of cleanliness, a skilled producer doesn't need to micromanage your gear selection to get what they want.
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I said this in a different thread: P basses are great.....but there is no one size fits all bass sound for anything.....any producer or engineer that argues that a P Bass is what they are used to and always sits perfectly in a mix needs to stop what they are doing and go back to engineering school before they hurt something:
It's like telling a guitarist to always use a Standard Stratocaster because it is what they are used to and always sits perfectly in a mix.....Bass tone is a color and it has to work with the other colors on the pallette in order for the painting to make sense......as far as quietness: not all Ps are quiet and some Js are
It's like telling a guitarist to always use a Standard Stratocaster because it is what they are used to and always sits perfectly in a mix.....Bass tone is a color and it has to work with the other colors on the pallette in order for the painting to make sense......as far as quietness: not all Ps are quiet and some Js are
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It's not that tough to gate a little noise. The way the pbass can be focus's around 100hz with the kick at 60 without much effort is a big reason it got used so much. It's the "it just works" theory.
A lot of producers use the same bass sound over and over in their productions. It's the same for live engineers on a time budget. That said , it's not as big of a deal in 2024. You can use what you want as long as it sounds good and fits the song. If you want to be a studio player though, having a pbass on hand is probably a good idea.
From my experience with multiple, sometimes rather famous, producers/engineers, the OP point is part of the equation for some of them. To the point where if you bring any kind of bass that could, potentially, introduce any extraneous noise to the signal, then that bass is immediately written off --- sometimes without even testing it.
There are producers who flat out say no to basses with active preamps. It's a terrible thing to do, since some of the world's greatest basses use undefeatable active preamps (for example, most (not all) of the basses from ernie ball, alembic, spector, just 3 from personal experiences where that negative assumption came up from a producer).
So yes, the noise factor undoubtedly did affect the decision for some of the engineers/producers.
I guarantee it. But the fact that the P just sounds so good and consistent from bass to bass, and you can't eff that tone up with non-standard settings of the pickups and tone controls, is part of the equation also.
And thirdly, historically we know that whatever becomes the first huge standard tends to remain that standard for a while. Look at VHS versus BETAMAX for example. ANALOG LP versus CD, or more extreme, analog cassette tape versus literally any other media after it came out. Or 8 track versus, well, literally anything after or before it LoL.
The one that came out first and went big will remain big generally. And in some cases will make a huge comeback decades later, despite it's inferiority (vinyl records), although I do love records due to the great big visual media that comes with many of them and my fond memories from the first half of my life.
There are producers who flat out say no to basses with active preamps. It's a terrible thing to do, since some of the world's greatest basses use undefeatable active preamps (for example, most (not all) of the basses from ernie ball, alembic, spector, just 3 from personal experiences where that negative assumption came up from a producer).
So yes, the noise factor undoubtedly did affect the decision for some of the engineers/producers.
I guarantee it. But the fact that the P just sounds so good and consistent from bass to bass, and you can't eff that tone up with non-standard settings of the pickups and tone controls, is part of the equation also.
And thirdly, historically we know that whatever becomes the first huge standard tends to remain that standard for a while. Look at VHS versus BETAMAX for example. ANALOG LP versus CD, or more extreme, analog cassette tape versus literally any other media after it came out. Or 8 track versus, well, literally anything after or before it LoL.
The one that came out first and went big will remain big generally. And in some cases will make a huge comeback decades later, despite it's inferiority (vinyl records), although I do love records due to the great big visual media that comes with many of them and my fond memories from the first half of my life.
Call it genius or call it dumb luck, but Leo's Precision Bass just sits easily in a mix in ways that basses with bridge pickups usually don't. It's the EASY button for engineers. Even more so if the Precision Bass has flatwounds. That configuration is just very hard to beat when there are bigger fish to fry (vocals, cymbals..).
John
If you can make your bass sound good then it is all good. Some of us have found that it is easier on P basses for them than it is on other basses but hey, to each his or her own. I can't imagine Marcus or Jaco using P basses, nor can I "hear" in my head Stanley using anything other than an Alembic. Louis Johnson sounded amazing on many basses but his Stingray suited his style best IMHO. I think the naked truth is this:
1. There is some oversell of the P bass sound even if players like me don't like to hear it. Other basses can sound amazing as well.
2. The above point does not necessarily mean that P basses don't sound hella good and work incredibly well for a lot of musicians and in a lot of different situations.
It is possible that two different things can be true at the same time.
1. There is some oversell of the P bass sound even if players like me don't like to hear it. Other basses can sound amazing as well.
2. The above point does not necessarily mean that P basses don't sound hella good and work incredibly well for a lot of musicians and in a lot of different situations.
It is possible that two different things can be true at the same time.
There were a few things around before the P bass, but in such small numbers that they were oddities. The P bass was the start of the electric bass as a "normal" instrument.
Still...the electric bass was not invented in the 1950s.
Technically, you're correct, but practically, you're nit picking.
What a great question! It's one I'm not sure anyone here can fully answer, except for one part. The P bass sounds good and has a very small margin of change when use in different configurations. Basically, you have volume and tone, and the extreme of tone wide open and off is minimal. In other words, the P bass has a narrow scope, especially when considering modern, active configurations.
I'm a life long Precision player who's gotten interested in messing around with a Jazz bass, but as someone who usually plays with some dirt, I'm really wary of the noise from the Jazz's singles. With a guitar you can kind of incorporate the noise depending on genre, but a really noisy bass signal is not great.
My thoughts on the matter
Why the Precision Bass is best?
1st off I think it had everything to do with the fact they flooded the market including giving players their creation.
2nd was Engineers got so use to seeing and hearing them.
with only a volume and tone control onboard to shape the sound, there wasn't a lot you could do to mess it up. The Precision Bass delivered a great sounding reliable tone that work in every musical context. That is why in was used over other basses at the time. Bring in the player plug it in and start recording fast and simple, time is money.
And my other thought with the big hit maker music machine looking over their shoulder maybe they were a little afraid of taking a chance on another brand of bass. Or maybe Leo the business man and his team made sure his basses were being used through some kind of contractual agree (like I will supply them, but you can't use anything else) whatever the case that is my thoughts.
Why the Precision Bass is best?
1st off I think it had everything to do with the fact they flooded the market including giving players their creation.
2nd was Engineers got so use to seeing and hearing them.
with only a volume and tone control onboard to shape the sound, there wasn't a lot you could do to mess it up. The Precision Bass delivered a great sounding reliable tone that work in every musical context. That is why in was used over other basses at the time. Bring in the player plug it in and start recording fast and simple, time is money.
And my other thought with the big hit maker music machine looking over their shoulder maybe they were a little afraid of taking a chance on another brand of bass. Or maybe Leo the business man and his team made sure his basses were being used through some kind of contractual agree (like I will supply them, but you can't use anything else) whatever the case that is my thoughts.
To me, it's pretty obvous, that if the Jazz bass (or any other type) had been invented and massed produced first, then this discussion would be about why the Jazz bass is the preferred "go to" and not the P bass.
