• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

A Trombone question

#41
As a parent who had a kid with decent talent, I was required to have the child tutored so the child could play in midschool band. My child was a trumpet player. My kid, thought that the tutor spent too much time on the basics. Including changing his brilliance while maintaining pitch. My kid spent a lot of time in front of a tuner, driving me nuts. His tutor was a college student.
Tutoring paid off, Either first or second chair in band 4 years. In the kid's junior year, he transposed "Stairway to Heaven" to the brass parts for the high school marching band. The band won the most original arrangement in Marching competition, My kid was asked to switch over to Flugal, for a possible college scholarship, (the kid declined), and the Band Director (Mr. Lloyd) who was really good with the kids, was asked to be a college band director somewhere in Louisiana. (He went).
Since you are talking about trombone, then IMHO, (I am not a brass dude), the time you spend playing notes with a tuner in front of you will pay big dividends. You develop the lip, the ear, and muscle memory and reading skills.
I am assuming you have reading skills, so if you have the time (both figuratively and actually), High School Jazz band will be a nice stepping stone to an enjoyable life with music.

By the way which genre of Jazz does the High School play? My kid's school tended to Dixie Land, and Jimi Hendrix version of "The Star Spangled Banner" at basketball games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: osonu and Novarocker
#42
Joebone said:
Hear, hear! In my blurb, above, I all-capped GOOD teacher for a reason. Everybody's body is different. Purity of buzz is something that seems to be common to the greatest players I've known - but the mechanics of transferring that buzz into music are tricky and highly variable. Reinhart is deeply mis-understood because in developing his taxonomy of embouchures, some have taken it as meaning Reinhart was saying there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way to interface with the mouthpiece and instrument. I don't think that was his intention, but rather to help folks find the right lip and mouthpiece placement that worked best for their particular physisogomy. Regrettably, too few brass teachers seem to have understood this over the years. The exception to the rule - Carmine Caruso, who taught all sorts of brass players in NYC from the '40's through the '80's, and who developed a set of exercises that maximize coordination and strength without messing with your set-up--assuming you have a functional set-up in the first place. Carmine always proclaimed that there had been students he could not help, but that he'd never hurt any. No mean feat in brassland!
Click to expand...
Here, here! If you have your TV set to captions, you can watch a movie while doing Caruso exercises and it will turn you into a play(a). No dogma, just isometrics that adapts your body. Being taught Caruso's seconds (by Wes Hensell lead with Les Brown and His Band Of Renound) was my key in advancing both range and endurance. Any goon can has technique.
 
#49
If you've got a background in music bass and maybe piano it takes about a year and a half. Its a new style and you have to develop your chops. If you're playing everyday and are really studying your stuff it will come towards the and of the ear of beginning of the next. A tuner, a good ear, a good teacher, a non broken horn, a good feel, and lots and lots of practice will get you there. It takes time though.

If you have no musical background I expect that time to double or triple because the basics are the hardest part.
 
#50
T_Bone_TL said:
So you would have had to start in pre-K to actually play HS Jazz while in High School? Uh, whut?
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Started beginner band in 5th grade and played through college (on music scholorship for trombone and upright bass I might add). Jazz band wasn't even available until 11th grade. You have to take into account I graduated from high school in 1966. Times were different and most folks in band didn't aspire to be jazz players. Most of us were interested in orchestra and symphony.
 
#52
As a trombonist for 30 years I was going to write out a long screed that repeated a lot already said, so my
TL;DR version:
IF you are already a solid musician who has basic to intermediate theory down
IF you have a good ear
IF you can already read music
IF you practice smart and don't skip days unless to recover from overdoing it
AND
IF you get a good instrument (seriously, a bad brass instrument is exponentially more of a hindrance than a bad bass)
6- 12 months is very doable
 
  • Like
Reactions: Novarocker, Remoman and bassestkkm
#54
hsech said:
What are you talking about? Started beginner band in 5th grade and played through college (on music scholorship for trombone and upright bass I might add). Jazz band wasn't even available until 11th grade. You have to take into account I graduated from high school in 1966. Times were different and most folks in band didn't aspire to be jazz players. Most of us were interested in orchestra and symphony.
Click to expand...
The question was "how long to play HS Jazz charts", and you said "10-12 years." Starting in 5th grade, that would make you ready for HS Jazz charts sometime in college, which seemed a bit off to me, as someone who also started in 5th grade and was playing HS Jazz all four years of HS, albeit I could have been a lot better that first year, but they were in enough need of bodies that they took me anyway and made do. We took the state title a couple of times, so perhaps we were not all that terrible.
 
#55
Kun2112 said:
As a trombonist for 30 years I was going to write out a long screed that repeated a lot already said, so my
TL;DR version:
IF you are already a solid musician who has basic to intermediate theory down
IF you have a good ear
IF you can already read music
IF you practice smart and don't skip days unless to recover from overdoing it
AND
IF you get a good instrument (seriously, a bad brass instrument is exponentially more of a hindrance than a bad bass)
6- 12 months is very doable
Click to expand...

Great to see I've got fellow slide guys in this forum! As a gigging trombonist with 44 years, I will second what Kun2112 said including 6-12 months is very doable. I'll add more emphasis on reading than the theory, good ear not only for music but how to listen to the rest of the band, and all true on the rest. A lot transfers nicely between Bass and Trombone, but you rely much more on reading than on your cord changes unless you're soloing. Lessons would be especially good for helping you work through developing your embouchure, breath control, and tonguing.

Also agree on the good instrument. There are some good student model horns, and some great standard pro level horns that can be had for a decent price. If you can swing it, a straight King 3B is kind of the 4-string Fender P-bass of trombones. Oh and an hour a day of practice is great, but yeah, you'll have to work up to it. Otherwise you can find a lot of help on horns and practice methods over on tromboneforum.org.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Novarocker
#56
Remoman said:
Great to see I've got fellow slide guys in this forum! As a gigging trombonist with 44 years, I will second what Kun2112 said including 6-12 months is very doable. I'll add more emphasis on reading than the theory, good ear not only for music but how to listen to the rest of the band, and all true on the rest. A lot transfers nicely between Bass and Trombone, but you rely much more on reading than on your cord changes unless you're soloing. Lessons would be especially good for helping you work through developing your embouchure, breath control, and tonguing.

Also agree on the good instrument. There are some good student model horns, and some great standard pro level horns that can be had for a decent price. If you can swing it, a straight King 3B is kind of the 4-string Fender P-bass of trombones. Oh and an hour a day of practice is great, but yeah, you'll have to work up to it. Otherwise you can find a lot of help on horns and practice methods over on tromboneforum.org.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if there's quite a few players on here. Although, many are probably amateur/semi- professional. Certainly good players nonetheless I'm sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Remoman
#58
I actually played my trombone with the celtic group I play with now a few times, and while they were very accepting, it was clearly a poor fit. So I dove off the deep end and borrowed the ginormous fretless object, which is a better fit. But I still play trombone (I guess we'll have to stick with purely amateur) in a couple of other contexts/groups.

Not to mention a weird gig where I dug out the old, dented, patched Eb horn (valved) I've been dragging around since my high school band teacher kicked it out the door in my general direction. Evidently they were at one time popular in some flavor of marching band, perhaps mostly in Europe. Can't say I've ever actually seen a part written for the thing, and don't know if I could read it if I did see one {having never actually looked into the clef or transposition (if any) it is commonly scored in.}

If I do any more with it I suspect I'll just do so untransposed, saving the bother - it didn't really matter for the "abstract improvisational" nature of this particular gig. The voicing seemed better than the 'bone for the part (tried both at the dress rehearsal.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Novarocker
#59
T_Bone_TL said:
I actually played my trombone with the celtic group I play with now a few times, and while they were very accepting, it was clearly a poor fit. So I dove off the deep end and borrowed the ginormous fretless object, which is a better fit. But I still play trombone (I guess we'll have to stick with purely amateur) in a couple of other contexts/groups.

Not to mention a weird gig where I dug out the old, dented, patched Eb horn (valved) I've been dragging around since my high school band teacher kicked it out the door in my general direction. Evidently they were at one time popular in some flavor of marching band, perhaps mostly in Europe. Can't say I've ever actually seen a part written for the thing, and don't know if I could read it if I did see one {having never actually looked into the clef or transposition (if any) it is commonly scored in.}

If I do any more with it I suspect I'll just do so untransposed, saving the bother - it didn't really matter for the "abstract improvisational" nature of this particular gig. The voicing seemed better than the 'bone for the part (tried both at the dress rehearsal.)
Click to expand...
I would think you could read alto or bari sax parts on that Eb horn. With a little adjustment to the key signature - if memory serves, when you're playing in concert "C", the key signature would be in Eb (3 flats) - it reads just like playing a baritone in bass clef.
 
#60
mrcbass said:
I would think you could read alto or bari sax parts on that Eb horn. With a little adjustment to the key signature - if memory serves, when you're playing in concert "C", the key signature would be in Eb (3 flats) - it reads just like playing a baritone in bass clef.
Click to expand...
My head and ears hurt. why can't we treat the signature as G#? A#?(9 sharps). Its so much easier on a bass, where all I have to do is move my home position to find the notes to play. I vote we use the tenor clef to avoid bass and treble.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back