Accugroove site update.....

[jokerjkny]

oh lord,

may you not let this be as boneheaded as its heading...

 

[USAJO]

In the linked interview Mark smuggly set himself up to be held to a higher standard than many of those in the industry, kinda "holier than thou" attitude. HE interjected this thought. Simply enough when things became muddy he should have stepped up and publically stated that he wants to do further research on the "switch". Most would probably accept an honest mistake if in fact one was made. The Accugroove cabs are obviously well thought of by many so a mis-step made with the intention of making a great product better can be understood. I don't understand why that wasn't done and it seems still hasn't been done. Yes, he may have had to refund some money, take some cabs back etc but if that's the price of a blunder ya pay it and move on integrity intact. I think "the people" could live with that.

 

[jokerjkny]

$5 this thread closes on monday...

any takers?

 

[USAJO]

Boneheaded ? FYI that's the smug smily.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

the accugroove website is very dissapointing.

its funny how they have time to remove the text about the accuswitch, but they havne't updated anything else in many mooons. so lame.

I thought that the addition of the 115L was new?



Joe.

 

[Marlat]

Cmon guys, can we focus on the AccuSwitch issue - this really is turning into a witch hunt. Some of you seem to be insinuating that Mark Wright is Osama's right hand man.

 

[Moo]

Cmon guys, can we focus on the AccuSwitch issue - this really is turning into a witch hunt. Some of you seem to be insinuating that Mark Wright is Osama's right hand man.

Left hand man would be worse.

 

[oddio]

Many companies learned the lesson long ago that religion and business mix about as well as oil and water in a "global business community". When people wave that banner a little too enthusiastically it always creeps me out a bit, but I guess that making that particular and questionable marketing decision isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Nonetheless, as with the last "switch" thread, it seems that we're destined to relive another 40+ pages of AccuGroove and Mark Wright bashing unless this thread gets locked, in which case I'm IBTL! . At least this particular topic sees Mark in the august company of Dave Funk and the folks at EA. I wonder who the "lynch mob" will go after next?

Now that we all are aware the switch doesn't work as advertised and has been removed from the website and presumably the cabinets, and that the drivers are stock Eminence just like many other decent manufacturers, the usual suspects seem to be grasping for something or someone else to single out. Boredom truly is a terrible thing.

I recall that there are a few TBers who actually like AccuGroove cabinets, myself included. Educating the rest of us with dispassionate and objective criticism is always respected but watching so many folks jump on the bandwagon as this streches into something bordering religious persecution of a guy for a bad marketing decision is truly disappointing to see.

[/soapbox off]

 

[MODNY]

I thought that the addition of the 115L was new?



Joe.

ok ok ok, i didn't notice that, but i hate flash websites, they are a pain in the azz. if you go to their links page, the only way to get back to he home page is to go through the whole "ta da" intro again. and that accessories page has been down foreverrrrrr. but i guess its not as bad as edens website, that thing was f'd up for life.

 

[Bassist30]

I have an accugroove whoopo jr. Still love it and i get the feeling what they have done is tried to make an adjustable ohms switch. OK. Did they do it. Maybe they did. I get the feeling something will come out of it. I don't know. I was upset at first. But when i play it , it sounds so good. One of my reasons for looking at it was because it had an accuswitch. A very nice feature so i went down. Now mind you the accuswitch was not the high priority issue regarding the other 20 reasons to check it out. When I played it... wow it just blew me away. I still love it and will play it. After thinking about it i feel that maybe it does work. Maybe the accuswitch does work or maybe they need time to make it work better or maybe there are other issues that give them a reason for taking it out for now. I believe there will be a switch. I do not have the electronical mind as many of you. In fact Im blown away by alot of you. You guys know your stuff. And I tip my hat off to you. And your comments are valid and thought provoking. All of you. But deep inside Im going to stand by them until proven guilty. I believe the switch was taken out for other reasons. Maybe a patent issue. Maybe to make it work better. I don't think the owners are liars . I never like to trash people before I know everything about it . Which if its true there will probably be legal issues. But if it works I will reiterate my feelings that there is good in everyone. No Im not a hippie.......... Some times Gullible. But Im rooting for them. I would not want to feel, what they feel, regarding all the stuff that is being said about them . And i tell you there is alot to be learned if all about the switch is true. I edit the first but what I meant was it could be the competition starting it up also. Im not saying it is but it could be. Lets wait and see. You already have them nailed to the cross.

 

[Rock City]

I have an accugroove whoopo jr. Still love it and i get the feeling what they have done is tried to make an adjustable ohms switch. OK. Did they do it. Maybe they did. I get the feeling something will come out of it. I don't know. I was upset at first. But when i play it , it sounds so good. One of my reasons for looking at it was because it had an accuswitch. A very nice feature so i went down. Now mind you the accuswitch was not the high priority issue regarding the other 20 reasons to check it out. When I played it... wow it just blew me away. I still love it and will play it. After thinking about it i feel that maybe it does work. Maybe the accuswitch does work or maybe they need time to make it work better or maybe there are other issues that give them a reason for taking it out for now. I believe there will be a switch. I do not have the electronical mind as many of you. In fact Im blown away by alot of you. You guys know your stuff. And I tip my hat off to you. And your comments are valid and thought provoking. All of you. But deep inside Im going to stand by them until proven guilty. I believe the switch was taken out for other reasons. Maybe a patent issue. Maybe to make it work better. I don't know but liars I don't think the owners are. I never like to trash people before I know everything about it and until the final blow. Which if its true there will probably be legal issues. But if it works I will reiterate my feelings that there is good in everyone. No Im not a hippie.......... Some times Gullible. But Im rooting for them. I would not want to feel, what they feel, regarding all the stuff that is being said about them. And i tell you there is alot to be learned if all about the switch came true or is true. One of them is manufacturers are cut throats. Opps now im doing it...........

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Corey

 

[The Clap]

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Corey

Indeed, that's one of the most unusual posts I've ever seen on a message board -- it reminds me of James Joyce




Also, I love this quote from the maker of Accugroove cabinets. It's just ridiculous from a speaker builder's point of view

Our competition splits the sound into a two way system using bass and highs. God gave us the idea to divide the sonic spectrum up into four separate areas

...4-way designs are nothing new, much less divinely inspired

 

[Bassist30]

It is proven that it doesn't work. That is, it doesn't switch impedances as claimed. No maybes. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208135

As for lying, that does seem strong. Hypeing is more like it, or maybe worse simple ignorance. IMO. They certainly didn't test "thousands of speakers" and their other claims quoted above aren't possible either, such as claiming the switch "really works" and "isn't a marketing gimmick" and "took years to develop" or that "satisifed customers prove the switch works". At best perhaps those are gross exaggerations or mistakes, but back to the lying thing if you're not one then don't act like one.

If the switch were taken out for other reasons as you suggest, it'd definitely be to their advantage to say so ergo that doesn't seem a likely reason to me.

My problem isn't the switch so much. Anyone can make mistakes or maybe be duped, and anyone can get too enthusiastic to the point of hyperbole with their quotes and marketing - it's par for the course in that business, really - it's the lack of any respectable reaction to all this. IMO. No clarification, and instead continued deliberate obfuscation.

People say they're being trashed, yet by far the majority of participants in these discussions stick to the facts about the technical aspects of the product and the way the situation is being handled. It's something we can all learn from as consumers, businessmen, techs, etc. - people that sometimes dig themselves into a hole and need to get out of it with minimal damage to their reputation. We've surely all been there before.




Only if someone has reported them and it's taken seriously. Perhaps not even then, now that any mention of it seems to be gone. As for customers, they can't prove material damages since it seems the only people with failures presented here have been properly looked after by the company, should it occur to the person that the cabs might have been the cause and then contact the company about it since some might not think to blame the cabs/switch, and without material damages there's no real basis for a suit.




Again, there's no "if it works" in re: the claims made about its function, but I agree there's good in everyone and that's why the aftermath of this is so puzzling. A clear chance to make good, or a test and blessing from God if you will, to pull one out of the fire and come clean and win goodwill - I mean, some of the most darling products on this site are prone to unusually high failure rates and many people still love them because of the service they get. In some cases it's actually good for business and gets the name around. Witness stuff like "I've had 6 of these cables fail in the past year and got every one replaced for free - I love 'em so much that their utterly false advertising claims and shameful conduct in the legal arena don't matter to me!".

Maybe this still can have a happy ending. I'd love to see it. The more options the better, even if the design is decades old (it is) and the switch doesn't work (see link above) and the company is prone to gross exaggerations (see quotes above). I suspect we'd all define "happy ending" differently though. So far, the company seems to just wish it'd go away and have people accept that if Mr. Soandso plays the cabs then it means everything is a-ok with the switch. With those types of responses, it's no surprise to me this garners the attention it has.

But of course it'll blow over soon enough and most people will never have heard of, or understood, the issue. It's like it is with politicians - make false claims, invoke God, ignore or give obfuscating replies to any probing questions or real issues, and win again next time at the polls 'cause they were on the news so often and people know the name. Ultimately, this is all free advertising that'll probably lead to an increase in sales. The world is funny that way. So be it.

Wow pretty good. You make excellent points and I respect that. The site about the acmeswitch was interesting and yet I question it. The way he explains it is that it's impossible to make a cabinet go from 8 to 4 ohms and reverse as well. Im the last person to fight with him because i know very little about the law's of electronics. You on the other hand do, so my opinion will probably mean little to you. But there is no way ever to change that? I mean no possible way? Im not saying Im 100% with believing the switch can or cannot work. Im just saying it would be a total impossibility for something like that to work,,,,, ever?
Although you pointed out that it may be similar to free advertising by making up false claims But, getting caught will be more serious than that of a politician. His company is not that large. I think something like this can cause much more damage. As for a politician he has alot of politicians to back him up. Other amp companies will not......... There will be one less competitive outlet.

 

[Fretless5verfan]

Wow pretty good. You make excellent points and I respect that. The site about the acmeswitch was interesting and yet I question it. The way he explains it is that it's impossible to make a cabinet go from 8 to 4 ohms and reverse as well. Im the last person to fight with him because i know very little about the law's of electronics. You on the other hand do, so my opinion will probably mean little to you. But there is no way ever to change that? I mean no possible way? Im not saying Im 100% with believing the switch can or cannot work. Im just saying it would be a total impossibility for something like that to work,,,,, ever?

The switch doesn't work the way it was implied to work. Period. It doesn't matter whether it's possible or not.

 

[Petebass]

W. But there is no way ever to change that? I mean no possible way? Im not saying Im 100% with believing the switch can or cannot work. Im just saying it would be a total impossibility for something like that to work,,,,, ever?

This was all covered in the other thread, so I'll do a quick summary here:-

There are several ways to do it, but each has a trade off or a point of fact that seem to be missing from the AG's claims.

For example, you could run a High-Pass filter to one of the woofers. That would change the 4 ohm cab to an 8 ohm cab if designed correctly. But you'd be able to hear a difference, namely less lows from one of the woofers. The AG claim was that there was no change to the sound. Plus A HP filter would be considerably larger than the little black box found in the AG cabs.

You could design a switch that disconnects one woofer all together. That's got so many flaws in it, I won't even elaborate.

You could use a transformer (as Kustom PA cabinets have done). I've been experimenting with this on a small scale (small speakers, small wattages) and the results are very interesting. It works, but I've not yet testing it a wattages required for gigs. Apparently something that can handle 400+ watts would be rather large and quite heavy, and again wouldn't fit inside the AG black box.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

The switch doesn't work the way it was imlpied to work. Period. It doesn't matter whether it's possible or not.

Did anyone ever check to see what the impedence curves were for two cabs in parallel swtiched to 8 ohms?

I haven't looked in on this topic for a while but vaugely remember someone talking about actually checking it instead of just yammerring about theory this and that.

In this situation with the Accuswitch, what does the amp really see?

Yes, I know they removed references to it from their site but nobody knows why yet.

Anybody?



Joe.

 

[Petebass]

Did anyone ever check to see what the impedence curves were for two cabs in parallel swtiched to 8 ohms?

Unfortunately I didn't have 2 cabs to measure. The impedance sweeps of that one cab were pretty conclusive though. In the critical 40Hz region, the AC impedance was 6 ohms. Two of those in parallel is 3 ohms at best.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I mean no possible way? Im not saying Im 100% with believing the switch can or cannot work. Im just saying it would be a total impossibility for something like that to work,,,,, ever?

Never say never, but it's no more likely to become a practical reality any sooner than cold fusion, warp drive, peace in the Middle East and honest politicians.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

Unfortunately I didn't have 2 cabs to measure. The impedance sweeps of that one cab were pretty conclusive though. In the critical 40Hz region, the AC impedance was 6 ohms. Two of those in parallel is 3 ohms at best.

O.k.,

I know that this is really going out on a limb....

Could it be that what is in a single cab is only 1/2 of a complete circuit? Could the Accuswitch behave differently of there are two of them?

Hey, that is my last point in holding out to the possibility that somehow in some way the Accuswitch might have a legitimate function.

Until someone actually does a real world test with two cabs, or until Accu Groove cries 'uncle' anyway.



Joe.

 

[Marlat]

O.k.,

I know that this is really going out on a limb....

Could it be that what is in a single cab is only 1/2 of a complete circuit? Could the Accuswitch behave differently of there are two of them?

Until someone actually does a real world test with two cabs, or until Accu Groove cries 'uncle' anyway.

I believe, according the the GrooveShop and the Accugroove website, Accugroove have cried uncle as they have removed the switch. If it worked and Accugroove could prove it, why would they remove it?

As to whether two Accugroove cabinets would work together, that may well be true, but that was not the claim about the Accuswitch. If the switch is in the 8 ohm position, it should (if it worked) allow you to use an Accugroove Cab with an 8ohm Acme cab on a 4 ohm rated amp. There was no where which said it had to be two Accugroove cabinets.