Accugroove site update.....

[jerry]

Bump!

 

[Fuzzhead]

The Walkabout and the TF can easily do 2 Ohms without shutting down, especially so the Walkabout.

Pardon me while I "shout" to avoid a common bit of misinformation : Mr. FUNK RECOMMENDS NOT RUNNING THE TF AT LOWER THAN 4 OHMS AND CONENDS IT WILL NOT PUT OUT GREATER WATTAGE AT LESS THAN 4 OHMS.

Smash, where did you get this information from about the Thunderfunk? I thought it was 4 Ohm minimum safe load.

If that's true then it sucks. Why? First of all, when the Accuswitch controversy first hit, I emailed Dave Funk about it and he told me 2 Accu cabs switched to 8 = 4 Ohms. Then he came on here and guaranteed his Thunderfunk will work safely with 2 cabs switched. Seemed like pretty solid credentials for the Accuswitch considering his reputation ( I have his Amp workbook!).

Now if the Thunderfunk could do 2 Ohm loads safely all along, the guarantee is kinda hollow isn't it? Especially since Way2fat's Peavey blew up bridged at 8 Ohms with an Accu cab switched to 8.

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"Can someone clarify this - from what I read of the testing on the cabs it seems to me that due to the configuartion of several drivers & tweeters that the cabs (the ones with more than one driver) are more like 5.3 Ohms or so rather than 4 Ohms."

I think from memory the average level was around 6 Ohms as assessed by Bill Fitzmaurice, and the minimum it reached was 4 Ohms @ 190Hz. So depends on how you assess nominal impedance. One tech did venture you should use the minimum as nominal impedance...his words were "it's easy to drown in water an average of half an inch deep".

BTW that was my reversed backplate. I actually got a Fedex message that one was being sent out so it'll be interesting to see if it's the "correct" wiring, or the new 4 Ohm only plate.

 

[Fuzzhead]

In my experience, cabs when tested with an Ohm meter will measure very near their rated amount - perhaps you or some other owner could check yours and let us know what it says? I just checked and my 4 Ohm Mesa Scout measures 4.4 Ohms while my 8 Ohm Ashdown practice combo measures 7.9 Ohms.
Good luck.

It's 3.9 Ohms, but that's at DC only, if you are checking with a meter. And 6.9 ohms at DC with the switch engaged (it's backwards only in orientation, not wiring). If you go back to the earlier thread there is an impedance sweep posted by Petebass that shows it.

Yeah I knew you could run most 4 Ohm minimum amps at 2 for a while. I thought you meant the TF could actually do 2 Ohms in a gig environment ie being pushed for a decent time frame.

The amp failure could have been a coincidence, but he did get fixed up without argument or explanation. So it looked like liability was accepted to me.

 

[Reefer]

I had an NL-210 on test a few months ago, and IRRC, the DC resistance measured in the 5 ohm range, which is a bit low for an 8 ohm cabinet. I was a little surprised. Perhaps someone else here can measure theirs....

Those are the type readings I was hearing about. Definitely low for an 8 ohm cab.

 

[Mark Reccord]

Just a quick note to back SMASH up:

A lot of people think that if an amp is rated for 4 Ohms minimum, it just won't work if you connect a 2 Ohm load. This is patently untrue. In fact, in order to make a solid claim to 4 Ohm operation a manufacturer damn well better make sure that it can safely run below 4 Ohms, or they'll have a lot of trouble with reliability.

Heat is the killer when running an amp below its rated minimum impedance, but the catch is that the amp needs to be working harder than normal in order for this to manifest itself. When the output current exceeds the ratings of the output devices, things begin to go badly and eventually the amp will thermal out or destroy itself.

Consider this: If an amp is rated at 1000W@4 Ohms, this translates into a maximum rated current of 15.8A. Connect a 2 Ohm load and you'll still be able to get 500W out of the amp before you exceed the maximum rated current and the output devices begin to work harder than they are supposed to do. The impedance of the load is not directly the limiting factor, the maximum current of the amp is.

Given that most amps run at average levels that are a fraction of their maximums (dynamic nature of music) operating a 4 Ohm rated amp into a 2 Ohm load may not be a big deal at all.

FWIW, my estimate of the El Whappo's nominal impedance from the curves Pete and Fuzz posted is around 5.5-6 Ohms.

 

[Steve Clark]

At the risk of turning the Accugroove switch thread into an EA thread . . .

If you would care to elaborate on the nature of the test. Who is the reputable source and how was the test conducted?

Misrepresentation and fudging is a little strong.

Has Tom Bowlus' post clarified this for either yourself or 12bass?

Speaking of misrepresentation, I heard a rumor from a reputable source that EA was fudging on the impedence of their cabs to try to get the output performance up to compete with others. This was supposedly found out by running 2 8 ohm(supposedly) NL210 cabs into another manufaturers head rated with a minimum load rating of 4 ohms and they shut it down due to low impedence. Anybody heard about this?

 

[Mark Reccord]

At the risk of turning the Accugroove switch thread into an EA thread . . .

If you would care to elaborate on the nature of the test. Who is the reputable source and how was the test conducted?

Misrepresentation and fudging is a little strong.

Has Tom Bowlus' post clarified this for either yourself or 12bass?

Send me one and I'll test it.....

TL cabs certainly tend to have lower impedances at low frequencies than conventional vented cabs do, they don't have the big peaks at speaker resonance. So it's possible the EA cabs could stress an amp that was sketchily rated for 4 Ohms.

 

[Steve Clark]

You buy it, I'll ship it.

So the issue is not with the cabinet but with the questionably rated amp. That said, why would any manufacturer design a cabinet that is incompatible with other products on the market?

What would the steps of your test be? Clearly your technical knowledge is better than mine so that's why I ask. Does Tom Bowlus' earlier post clarify the cabinet issue.

Send me one and I'll test it.....

TL cabs certainly tend to have lower impedances at low frequencies than conventional vented cabs do, they don't have the big peaks at speaker resonance. So it's possible the EA cabs could stress an amp that was sketchily rated for 4 Ohms.

 

[Mark Reccord]

You buy it, I'll ship it.

So the issue is not with the cabinet but with the questionably rated amp.

What would the steps of your test be?

That would be my guess.

My steps would be to connect it to my measurement system and do an impedance sweep. Then I'd use the data points to run a statistical analysis to come up with a nominal impedance.
I'd also probably connect it to an amp and run tones at various frequencies and measure the amp's output current.

I'm actually interested in EA stuff, but I just bought a house so I'm not going to be buying any gear for a spell....

Tom's post certainly clarifies it for me.....

 

[USAJO]

This has been a very interesting event and Accugroove at the least has been left with major mop up or spin doctoring to do. But the most annoying thing to me is learning that a bass cabinet maker somehow felt divine intervention is part of the equation? Is this true? He felt God wanted him to bring the design to the people? "the people"? He made religion, morality and higher standards of integrity part of his marketing approach and now the church is silent? I hope no one gets an inspiration to bring Kool-aid to NAMM. Gotta go now God wants me to go to the 7-11 and pick up a some pop and a bag of chips. wait a minute...what's that?....oh ok Lay's not just chips. Got it.

 

[Steve Clark]

Houses and homes are much more important than our gear. Congrats on buying the house.

If you want to get the boat out and sail to New Brunswick there are a couple of EA 210 cabs there.

That would be my guess.

My steps would be to connect it to my measurement system and do an impedance sweep. Then I'd use the data points to run a statistical analysis to come up with a nominal impedance.
I'd also probably connect it to an amp and run tones at various frequencies and measure the amp's output current.

I'm actually interested in EA stuff, but I just bought a house so I'm not going to be buying any gear for a spell....

Tom's post certainly clarifies it for me.....

 

[Moo]

This has been a very interesting event and Accugroove at the least has been left with major mop up or spin doctoring to do. But the most annoying thing to me is learning that a bass cabinet maker somehow felt divine intervention is part of the equation? Is this true? He felt God wanted him to bring the design to the people? "the people"? He made religion, morality and higher standards of integrity part of his marketing approach and now the church is silent? I hope no one gets an inspiration to bring Kool-aid to NAMM. Gotta go now God wants me to go to the 7-11 and pick up a some pop and a bag of chips. wait a minute...what's that?....oh ok Lay's not just chips. Got it.

Yes, he does claim to be a messenger of god.

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He says god gave him the idea to bring to the people so what does he do? He makes up some stuff about how he's been awarded patent pending status it and sells it. If god came to me with some gift for the people I think I'd share it for free, patenting and selling it seems so sleazy. I would expect this kind of advertising would upset the religious people but the inverse seems to be true.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

He makes up some stuff about how he's been awarded patent pending status it and sells it

I hope that's not the case. Having a patent pending is no big deal, you fill out the forms, pay the fees, and it's pending. That doesn't mean it will be awarded. Claiming that you have a patent pending/applied for when you don't, however, is illegal.

As for the divine intervention/inspiration, there's nothing particulary special or new about the AG speakers. Their design features are decades old, only notable in that most main stream manufacturers have ignored them.

 

[Moo]

That's my flowery speech being all vague again. The actual quote is "This unique design has received Patent Pending status."
http://www.ghservices.com/products/accugroove/

The assumption that he was making it up is just me extrapolating from the established pattern.

 

[mike_v_s]

But the most annoying thing to me is learning that a bass cabinet maker somehow felt divine intervention is part of the equation? Is this true? He felt God wanted him to bring the design to the people?

I agree this is, um, a questionable business tactic....but the most annoying? I think knowingly being lied to (if this is the case) is a bit higher on my list of problems with this whole thing. The divine inspiration part is an interesting sidenote....kinda like the color commentary on Monday Night Football.

Mike

 

[chucko58]

This has been a very interesting event and Accugroove at the least has been left with major mop up or spin doctoring to do. But the most annoying thing to me is learning that a bass cabinet maker somehow felt divine intervention is part of the equation? Is this true? He felt God wanted him to bring the design to the people? "the people"? He made religion, morality and higher standards of integrity part of his marketing approach and now the church is silent?

Smiley or no, you're reading too much into this.

Mark Wright is a devout Christian. Many Christians believe anything they accomplish is really God's work channeled through them. "The Father doeth the work, of myself I am nothing." Among Christians this attitude is interpreted as humility.

I'm privileged to call Mark a friend. Mark is a human being, same as anyone here. He's not some money-grubbing industrialist, he's a small business owner and a fine bassist. He makes mistakes like the rest of us.

I think some posters here are blowing this way out of proportion. Get a life, people.

 

[metron]

kick that dead horse TB!

 

[Mark Reccord]

Smiley or no, you're reading too much into this.

Mark Wright is a devout Christian. Many Christians believe anything they accomplish is really God's work channeled through them. "The Father doeth the work, of myself I am nothing." Among Christians this attitude is interpreted as humility.

I'm privileged to call Mark a friend. Mark is a human being, same as anyone here. He's not some money-grubbing industrialist, he's a small business owner and a fine bassist. He makes mistakes like the rest of us.

I think some posters here are blowing this way out of proportion. Get a life, people.

I don't have any issue with Mark Wright's religion or whether he feels he's doing God's work or not. I also don't have any issues with him personally as I don't know him. None of that is really germaine to the discussion here and really should be left out of it.

 

[Fuzzhead]

Although I agree with Bill and Corey that religion shouldn't be used as a selling point, I don't really think Accugroove has done this bar that one interview to a Christian site. It's not in his advertising and I've never seen him mention his religion on Talkbass (when he used to post!). USA politicians and Grammy award winners invoke God more.

 

[MODNY]

the accugroove website is very dissapointing.

its funny how they have time to remove the text about the accuswitch, but they havne't updated anything else in many mooons. so lame.