You's guys must have really good jobs to be financing all this gear to "try out" for the rest of us to benefit from. I'm grateful for the posts and demos. Years ago I developed some cabs up in Maine that Fodera began to market as "NYC" cabs and a few got out there but we were quickly dropped when Epifani showed up. So I know something of what it takes to get a product out there and I greatly respect what the designers are doing. I have good knowledge of musical acoustics, not so much with electronics. But these are fascinating reads and while I will never attempt to be a manufacturer again my best efforts are spent in playing the bass, both electric and double bass, and working for the best sound possible for me. But really, I know what it take$, are you guys trust-fund babies or something?
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Acme Full Range Series III 112
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,950
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I was fortunate enough to have a job that allowed me a certain degree of discretionary income, and while I still have that job (attorney), I now have another job (Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine) that allows me to try out even more gear (without necessarily having to buy it, even!).
No trust fund, here, unfortunately...
I actually do quite a bit of buying, trying, and selling. I don't pile it up like Tom! The absolute $ outlay is not as much as you think.That being said, the Baer cab will be a 'loaner', and will not be mine, per se. I also did this with the HT112ER in that clip I posted a while back.
That being said, I do like to try this stuff, and am lucky enough with a good day gig (self employed), and a still relatively full gigging schedule that I can buy the things that come out that seem to interest me! If, after 6 months or so and a number of gigs, the piece of gear doesn't turn out like I would have hoped, or something 'better' comes along, I'll turn it and get at least some of my cash back.
As a direct beneficiary of Ken's generous nature, I have a Walter Woods Ultra, Lakland 55-94 and a Thunderchild 112. I'm still kicking my self for not buying the other Walter Woods Ultra the he sold. Ken tries gear out and if it doesn't suit him he plays it forward. I'm only one of many many players that Ken has helped.
Ric
I'm like the Goodwill store of bass gear
True, Ken, but I've never seen an Armani suit at Goodwill.
Ric
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
+1 I've been having a fun time comparing the Flatwound, TC112AF, fEARful 12/6cube/1, Baer ML-112, and the Berg HT112ER. Some are more similar than others (on paper, at least), but they really do sound quite different from each other. The Baer cab seems like it's the most aggressive of the bunch in the upper mids (though if I leave the pad on the 18Sound 6" off - which is the setting to use if you add another sub - the 12/6cube/1 sounds fairly similar in the upper mids, but is bigger down low), and I love the weight & dimensions. I haven't broken this one in all the way, yet, but it seems to have great articulation and a hint of growl. The Flatwound is the warmest of the group (it will be interesting to add the Full Range to the mix, shortly), and it seems very even in its response throughout its usable frequency range. Duke's cab has that killer presence in the upper bass to lower mids, and a very smooth transition from upper mids to high end. And it's hella loud for such a tiny cab! The fEARful is big, deep, defined and clear, and is clearly the most "analytical" of the cabs, though it is still very full and rich. The Berg has a very impressive low end that is deep, big, full, but controlled, plus articulate, quick mids and that oh so sweet Bergantino high end (and it's also very smooth in the transition from driver to tweeter). Jim's cabs always manage to sound like "bass cabs," in a good way, too.
Yessir, there are lots of cool things happening in 1x12 land, and it is really cool that each designer is kind of playing in their own pond, versus trying to replicate what someone else is doing. Very cool, indeed...
I thoroughly enjoyed your old Shoot-Outs; any chance of such a multi-cab comparison in TB?
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,950
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I'm like the Goodwill store of bass gear
If you change your mind on the Acme let me know
So, I just have to ask
As a former Acme owner who loved the low end extension, how does a single Flatwound (or full range) compare to a Bergie HT112/EX112 mini stack? I would suspect the mini stack has more volume, but the low end could be comparable. This with a four string (Sadowsky Standard 4)
I like bringing two cabinets to a gig, and playing what the room requires (and have a backup if something goes wrong)
As a former Acme owner who loved the low end extension, how does a single Flatwound (or full range) compare to a Bergie HT112/EX112 mini stack? I would suspect the mini stack has more volume, but the low end could be comparable. This with a four string (Sadowsky Standard 4)
I like bringing two cabinets to a gig, and playing what the room requires (and have a backup if something goes wrong)
Well, I would hope to be under the banquet table when a Thunderchild 112, Acme Flatwound or FullRange rolls off...
Cheers!
Cheers!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,950
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
While I do love the midrange texture and control of the HT112/EX112, the original (non-ER) HT112 does not go anywhere near as deep as the Acme 1x12's, so I think that while the overall volume of the HT112/EX112 would somewhat exceed that of a single 4-ohm Flatwound or Full Range, I definitely think that even one of the Acme cabs would have more deep low end going on.
This is a great thread! Thanks to all who have contributed.
I am completely blown away by the Acme and Thunderchild, but I play a four string and realize that some of their strengths won't be as apparent. Still, they are amazing cabs and I'm wondering if anything else should be thrown into the discussion for tiny, powerful, great sounding cabinets for a four string.
To my ears, the Acme is amazing because of the cleanliness in note separation. Individual notes remain distinct even when the player has swift movement. The Thunderchild's pluses are that it is warmer, has more character and a smaller footprint. The Acme (full range) is $100 less which is another plus in its column.
I already have a 1-15 cab but there has always been a temptation to find something smaller for those basement jams or small get togethers with only a few instruments. Is there any other cabinet to consider for a four string in these settings?
Also, one other question about the Thunderchild. Do the rear ports require any sort of preferred set up? In other words - does proximity to a wall become an issue, or proximity to other instruments?
Thanks,
PD
I am completely blown away by the Acme and Thunderchild, but I play a four string and realize that some of their strengths won't be as apparent. Still, they are amazing cabs and I'm wondering if anything else should be thrown into the discussion for tiny, powerful, great sounding cabinets for a four string.
To my ears, the Acme is amazing because of the cleanliness in note separation. Individual notes remain distinct even when the player has swift movement. The Thunderchild's pluses are that it is warmer, has more character and a smaller footprint. The Acme (full range) is $100 less which is another plus in its column.
I already have a 1-15 cab but there has always been a temptation to find something smaller for those basement jams or small get togethers with only a few instruments. Is there any other cabinet to consider for a four string in these settings?
Also, one other question about the Thunderchild. Do the rear ports require any sort of preferred set up? In other words - does proximity to a wall become an issue, or proximity to other instruments?
Thanks,
PD
Like any rear ported cab, you need to leave about 5 inches or so between the back wall and the cab. Since the Thunderchild is so thin front to back, this results in about the same placing on stage as the front ported Acme, since it is a few inches deeper than the Thunderchild. Not really an issue, and other than not 'plugging' the port with the back wall, there is nothing special about placement needed.
Thanks. And kudos to your videos. The sound quality makes it possible to really hear subtle differences.
I am strictly a four stringer, though I use a drop-D on all my basses. I don't believe, and it's been mentioned a couple of times on the thread, that a five string is requisite for either of these cabinets. I've owned many brands of cabinets over the years and I fully appreciate the fabulous characteristics of the Thunderchild and Acme cabs with my puny four string basses
PDGood said:
The number of strings on your bass, is completely irrelevant. Great sound is great sound, small is small, loud is loud.
Even if you play a 2 string, these "Super Twelves" are the only cabs on the market that put all five of these factors into one package:
- 400-500 watt power handling; perfect for the current crop of high-output micro heads
- much louder than your 115
- 40lbs or less
- not much bigger than a microwave
- cheaper than the larger, heavier boutique 2 by 10 and 3 by 10 cabs they replace
Of course, not everyone needs all of these factors in one place. But Unless you're willing to give up at least two of those factors, there is no less expensive option on the market.
The number of strings is absolutely relevant. Lots of cabs that are suitable for 5-string make sacrifices that make them not that great for a 4-string, and lots of cabs are incapable of handling the low B well.
The TC is neither of these and strikes an excellent balance for 5-string vs. 4-string performance.
The TC is neither of these and strikes an excellent balance for 5-string vs. 4-string performance.
Again, as usual, disagree strongly with this. Different cabs will produce different ratio's of the fundamental versus the upper harmonics across the range of the instrument. My open G string sounds quite different through the Acme versus the TC, and the lower notes of the E string sound WAY different. Of course, different does not mean better, as I like the sound of my lower register through both cabs, even though they are very different.
Edit: I generally agree with your point though... if you aren't looking for lots of meat from the middle of the E string on down, there are probably better choices, since you are giving up quite a bit of midrange efficiency to generate that big low end. This would be true for any bass guitar, and especially true for a DB.
