Acoustic Bass guitars worth having

[Kebogu]

Howdy!

I like music. Am I good at playing instruments? no. Am I knowledgable in music theory or Lutherie? also no, but I practice anyways and try to learn stuff that I find interesting. I recently started learning bass guitar and found it weird that acoustic bass guitars are super niche and generally terrible (physics and economic considerationas seem to be a nightmare to deal with).

I'm hoping to start a discussion on some acoustic bass guitars I found that seem worth having. If you guys have thoughts on them I'd love to hear them. If you know of additional guitars that could match or surpass this group, share them!

1) The Beast, by Gideon Weigert (German Luthier, based in Israel)

2) The Duke, by Sebastian Stoll (German Luthier)

3) Big Johnson, by Troy Johnson (American Luthier)

4) Balor Bass, by Emerald Guitars (Irish Luthier company)

5) Mehir Eva Funf, By Christian Jablonski (Austrian Luthier).

 

[JonathanPDX]

What exactly does "worth having" mean? Are you trying to perform live? Jam at home in your bedroom? Keep up with one or more acoustic guitars and/or singers around a campfire?

 

[ahbass2500]

What exactly does "worth having" mean? Are you trying to perform live? Jam at home in your bedroom? Keep up with one or more acoustic guitars and/or singers around a campfire?

Exactly this^

I had a Michael Kelly Dragonfly 5 at one point that was worth having.

I now have an Emerald Balor 5 that is worth having.

The Emerald is a significantly nicer instrument, but the MK served my needs when I was living in a small hotel room for a summer internship and wanted to keep practicing/playing while I was there.

The larger point here is that people often dislike acoustic basses because the use case they have in mind is not one the instrument fits well. If you have a use case that an acoustic bass can achieve and you buy an acoustic that can meet that use case, then you will probably like it.

 

[timmus]

I own an Ibanez AEB105E that sounds great. I put black tape wounds on it to get more of the upright sound but I'll never get that exact sound because well...it's not a URB

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It's not very loud, physics being physics you know, but I suspect part of that has more to do with the strings I put on it than the bass itself. It seems to hold it's own in a living room with one or two acoustic guitars. Otherwise, I just plug it in. If you do that, you may want to consider a sound hole plug (Ibanez makes one for that specific guitar) as it doesn't take much to get the guitar to feedback.

 

[Kebogu]

What exactly does "worth having" mean? Are you trying to perform live? Jam at home in your bedroom? Keep up with one or more acoustic guitars and/or singers around a campfire?

To me, it would being able to play in an ensemble with other "unplugged" elements like additional instruments and singers without getting drowned out, but isntead "blended". I would also add that being able to hear yourself in most if not all environments (good and bad acoustics) would be a big plus.

 

[Kebogu]

Exactly this^

I had a Michael Kelly Dragonfly 5 at one point that was worth having.

I now have an Emerald Balor 5 that is worth having.

The Emerald is a significantly nicer instrument, but the MK served my needs when I was living in a small hotel room for a summer internship and wanted to keep practicing/playing while I was there.

The larger point here is that people often dislike acoustic basses because the use case they have in mind is not one the instrument fits well. If you have a use case that an acoustic bass can achieve and you buy an acoustic that can meet that use case, then you will probably like it.

Well put. Ive seen those MK bass guitars, they are really beautiful. Do you have any footage of playing it that you would like to share?

The balor really stands out to me since wood is very sensitive to humidity (I live in the tropics) and carbon fiber is pretty stable. How comfortable is it?

 

[Kebogu]

I own an Ibanez AEB105E that sounds great. I put black tape wounds on it to get more of the upright sound but I'll never get that exact sound because well...it's not a URB

[This invalid link has been removed]

It's not very loud, physics being physics you know, but I suspect part of that has more to do with the strings I put on it than the bass itself. It seems to hold it's own in a living room with one or two acoustic guitars. Otherwise, I just plug it in. If you do that, you may want to consider a sound hole plug (Ibanez makes one for that specific guitar) as it doesn't take much to get the guitar to feedback.

Ah, i really like this one, ive seen footage of it and it really does seem to sound great. The only thing that held me back when I saw it in sweetwater was the "quiet" aspect of its acoustic ability. I talked to a guy that works on a product called "TurboTail" and he told me that to get more volume out of it acoustically one would have to take it apart and basically remove as much of the sound board bracing as possible while still keeping it stable. Then one would have to create an arrangement that would balance out the string tension so it doesnt explode. Thats where the tail part comes in. definitely a project i want to experiment with some day.

 

[timmus]

Ah, i really like this one, ive seen footage of it and it really does seem to sound great. The only thing that held me back when I saw it in sweetwater was the "quiet" aspect of its acoustic ability. I talked to a guy that works on a product called "TurboTail" and he told me that to get more volume out of it acoustically one would have to take it apart and basically remove as much of the sound board bracing as possible while still keeping it stable. Then one would have to create an arrangement that would balance out the string tension so it doesnt explode. Thats where the tail part comes in. definitely a project i want to experiment with some day.

Right, but I wonder how much "more volume" he's getting after basically turning it into a different guitar. I would like to hear/see the subjective results (as opposed to objective).

 

[mikeoso]

To me, it would being able to play in an ensemble with other "unplugged" elements like additional instruments and singers without getting drowned out, but isntead "blended". I would also add that being able to hear yourself in most if not all environments (good and bad acoustics) would be a big plus.

For that use, you need big, and well constructed. The ones in your initial post will work. Tacoma Thunderchief, Ernie Ball Earthwood, Guild B50 or B30 will work. About the smallest that would work will be in the ballpark of a Martin B-1e or some of the Taylor models.

Briefly..for what you describe, you want to be getting somewhere close to this.

You'll need a different attack and posture than the electric basses use...straight wrist, forearm nearly parallel to the soundboard, using the sides of fingers and/or thumb, like pizz on an upright. Also need a higher setup than an EB.

Even then, what you get will be blended, not "cutting through the mix". It'll mostly be noticed when you stop playing.

 

[JonathanPDX]

To me, it would being able to play in an ensemble with other "unplugged" elements like additional instruments and singers without getting drowned out, but isntead "blended". I would also add that being able to hear yourself in most if not all environments (good and bad acoustics) would be a big plus.

The issue is that the physics of acoustic bass guitars just do not keep up with the volume levels of regular acoustic guitars.

After a point, you have to ask yourself if just bringing a very small battery-powered amplifier to put under your chair becomes a much smarter and more cost-effective solution than trying to find an acoustic bass guitar with a humongous body in hopes that you won't reach it's volume limit before the other guitars do.

Personally, the next question would be: If I'm already bringing a small amplifier just to make my bass loud enough to keep up, do I really need an acoustic bass guitar at all? The only reason I see is aesthetics, because the hollow body isn't going to generate volume like an acoustic guitar, will be more prone to feedback when amplified, and overall just isn't going to produce an equal sound or playability to a standard bass guitar of similar cost/quality.

 

[Kebogu]

For that use, you need big, and well constructed. The ones in your initial post will work. Tacoma Thunderchief, Ernie Ball Earthwood, Guild B50 or B30 will work. About the smallest that would work will be in the ballpark of a Martin B-1e or some of the Taylor models.

Briefly..for what you describe, you want to be getting somewhere close to this.

View attachment 7388282

You'll need a different attack and posture than the electric basses use...straight wrist, forearm nearly parallel to the soundboard, using the sides of fingers and/or thumb, like pizz on an upright. Also need a higher setup than an EB.

Even then, what you get will be blended, not "cutting through the mix". It'll mostly be noticed when you stop playing.

love your breakdown of adjustments needed to make the most of an ABG. Is the one in the picture an Earthwood? Being as close to a guitarron as possible seems like the way to go, such a shame guitars like this are expensive and hard to find.

 

[Kebogu]

The issue is that the physics of acoustic bass guitars just do not keep up with the volume levels of regular acoustic guitars.

After a point, you have to ask yourself if just bringing a very small battery-powered amplifier to put under your chair becomes a much smarter and more cost-effective solution than trying to find an acoustic bass guitar with a humongous body in hopes that you won't reach it's volume limit before the other guitars do.

Personally, the next question would be: If I'm already bringing a small amplifier just to make my bass loud enough to keep up, do I really need an acoustic bass guitar at all? The only reason I see is aesthetics, because the hollow body isn't going to generate volume like an acoustic guitar, will be more prone to feedback when amplified, and overall just isn't going to produce an equal sound or playability to a standard bass guitar of similar cost/quality.

For real man. The guitars i shared in my original post look and sound great but for the ridiculous amount of money id be spending on them, id more likely be getting one of those ubass/micro bass isntruments, like what kala and goldtone sell, and pair that with a half decent Battery PA system like the Everse 8.

 

[Kebogu]

Right, but I wonder how much "more volume" he's getting after basically turning it into a different guitar. I would like to hear/see the subjective results (as opposed to objective).

Check em out, heres another guitar they worked on instagram: Instagram

 

[Wasnex]

This subject has pretty much been beat to death, so there are plenty of threads for you to explore.

I have participated in many of the relevant threads and most people will tell you the answer is no. I will tell you to make up your own mind for you own reasons.

You appear to already be aware that the problem is the instrument is simply not loud enough acoustically to really hold it's own with one or two good acoustic guitars. One way around that it to use a small amp. For campfire jams, a battery powered amp like a Roland Cube Street EX would work well IMHO.

Another solution is to simply accept the limited volume and make the best of it. IME a decent ABG will be heard in an acoustic jam, but you may not find it very satisfying as a player because it tends to be hard to hear yourself as well you want. You don't get that commanding sense of power that is possible with an amp.

I own a Tacoma Thunderchief personally. It's long out of production but was considered one of the louder options back in the day. The volume and tone is even across the strings, but it does not have a lot of low end. I think it sounds incredible through an amp and has a unique voice that that I think is very desirable. However because the Thunderchief was designed to be louder acoustically than most ABGs, it tends to feed back at a fairly low volume. Mine has the Fishman preamp and I can get it loud enough to gig with a drummer as long as they have/use a bit of restraint.

 

[GretschWretch]

So far, the bulk of the discussion seems to focus on "name-maker" basses, a more expensive option than factory ABGs. Personally I would feel well-served (in ascending order) by the Epiphone El Capitan, the Eko BA4, or the Dean Playmate, Of course, if I really wanted to rock out I would get set up my Harry Fleishman Compact Bass or my avatar bass.

 

[Kebogu]

This subject has pretty much been beat to death, so there are plenty of threads for you to explore.

I have participated in many of the relevant threads and most people will tell you the answer is no. I will tell you to make up your own mind for you own reasons.

You appear to already be aware that the problem is the instrument is simply not loud enough acoustically to really hold it's own with one or two good acoustic guitars. One way around that it to use a small amp. For campfire jams, a battery powered amp like a Roland Cube Street EX would work well IMHO.

Another solution is to simply accept the limited volume and make the best of it. IME a decent ABG will be heard in an acoustic jam, but you may not find it very satisfying as a player because it tends to be hard to hear yourself as well you want. You don't get that commanding sense of power that is possible with an amp.

I own a Tacoma Thunderchief personally. It's long out of production but was considered one of the louder options back in the day. The volume and tone is even across the strings, but it does not have a lot of low end. I think it sounds incredible through an amp and has a unique voice that that I think is very desirable. However because the Thunderchief was designed to be louder acoustically than most ABGs, it tends to feed back at a fairly low volume. Mine has the Fishman preamp and I can get it loud enough to gig with a drummer as long as they have/use a bit of restraint.

I see what you mean. Oh, you reminded me of this video, check it out:

The beast is potentially even louder than both. Maybe theres more improvements in overall ABGs to be seen in the near future.

I might get into lutherie just to mess around with some ideas I've got, lord knows i like to tinker.

 

[Kebogu]

So far, the bulk of the discussion seems to focus on "name-maker" basses, a more expensive option than factory ABGs. Personally I would feel well-served (in ascending order) by the Epiphone El Capitan, the Eko BA4, or the Dean Playmate, Of course, if I really wanted to rock out I would get set up my Harry Fleishman Compact Bass or my avatar bass.

Whats your use case?

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

The only acoustic bass worth having is an upright.

 

[Kebogu]

The only acoustic bass worth having is an upright.

do you have one? if so, can you share what its like?

 

[Low Main]

I don't hesitate to plug in an ABG and doing so doesn't bother me a bit because I've seen upright players show up to low volume acoustic gigs (guitar, fiddle, mandolin, etc.) with an amp and plug in. The upright would be the only amplified instrument in the group.
Including gigs with no mics and sound system, just completely room volume acoustic sound.
Upright players get defensive when you ask about it. They say they just want that little bit of extra sound from the amp to sweeten things up.
No problem, but if upright players feel the need to plug in at low volumes, than a plugged in ABG is a legitimate alternative if there's no call for arco playing.
I set up an ABG with the intention that it's going to be plugged in, even if a lot of the practice time on it is spent unplugged.
I don't want to play a giant ABG. I just want to get an ABG of manageable size to sound good regardless of volume, whether unplugged or plugged in.
There's a lot that goes into making that happen without chasing more acoustic volume by building a bigger box.
Plugging in an ABG is a lot more than a matter of volume. It's also about being able to hear details and articulation as notes are played.
It's good for you and others to be able to hear those details because an ABG can't match the attack of an upright.
When you can hear a percussive and expressive quality as well as a timbral quality to a plucked ABG note, then you have enhanced musical value.