Double Bass ADD / ADHD and keeping up with the score

[g-dude]

Okay, so I've joined up with a concert band, and this is the first time since I was a kid where I'm playing with a conductor.

As it turns out, apparently I have ADD - just found this out. This explains a lot...

...specifically, how easy it is for me to get lost in this situation. The other things in my life would take a whole book, but I digress.

When I'm playing bass guitar or upright in other situations, I don't seem to have this problem. I think it's because I can key off words and even when there aren't words, chord changes are pretty obvious - or I can get a cheeky glance at the guitarist and know what I should be playing.

For me, it seems like missing a single beat is enough to send me completely into lost-ville because I'm sight reading stuff I've never seen before - or in some cases never heard before.

It's sort of frustrating, because you can plop a chord chart in front of me, and between that and listening to what's going on, I can come up with something with ease. In fact, I often prefer to just come up with my own stuff rather than learning someone else's lines.

In contrast, this concert band is combining playing what someone else has written with having none of my usual crutches to lean upon.

The easy solution would be to bow out, but I don't want to do that - I'm stubborn and I'm treating this as an opportunity to develop.

I'd love to hear any advice from people who have ADD or ADHD who have managed to find success in these sorts of environments in spite of their issues.

 

[charliethomas]

I have ADHD pretty bad and I play bass in a concert band. I suck at sight reading the first time I get handed a score, and I encounter a lot of the same problems you mention.

What works for me is getting intimately familiar with the pieces. Find recordings online of all the pieces and play along with them. If you know the music really well, you'll recognize musical cues to tell you where to come in. I don't have to count measures for long rests for the songs I know. If there's an extended section where I'm repeating the same thing over and over, I don't follow each measure on the page, I feel it out based on my familiarity with the piece of music.

I'm sure there are plenty of situations where you're required to sight read or you don't have time or ability to practice at home in between rehearsals. This wouldn't work in that case. But if you can take the sheet music home, and you can find recordings, learn them the best you can!

Another advantage of really knowing the music is that you can pay much more attention to the conductor for timing and dynamics.

 

[g-dude]

I have ADHD pretty bad and I play bass in a concert band. I suck at sight reading the first time I get handed a score, and I encounter a lot of the same problems you mention.

What works for me is getting intimately familiar with the pieces. Find recordings online of all the pieces and play along with them. If you know the music really well, you'll recognize musical cues to tell you where to come in. I don't have to count measures for long rests for the songs I know. If there's an extended section where I'm repeating the same thing over and over, I don't follow each measure on the page, I feel it out based on my familiarity with the piece of music.

I'm sure there are plenty of situations where you're required to sight read or you don't have time or ability to practice at home in between rehearsals. This wouldn't work in that case. But if you can take the sheet music home, and you can find recordings, learn them the best you can!

Another advantage of really knowing the music is that you can pay much more attention to the conductor for timing and dynamics.

I think I'm going to ask them to bring the music home - they normally don't let people, but since I'm the only bass, and they're unlikely to need a sub since there are a gazillion tubas, I hope they'll let me.

Probably doesn't hurt that the manager of the band and I have crossed paths in other situations, but I'll be extra nice next time I see her, just in case.

 

[charliethomas]

I think I'm going to ask them to bring the music home - they normally don't let people, but since I'm the only bass, and they're unlikely to need a sub since there are a gazillion tubas, I hope they'll let me.

Hopefully they let you! If worst comes to worst, you can take pictures of each page with your phone and read them off your computer or tablet when you're at home. I did that with a few pieces where they didn't have a spare copy of a part. It's definitely not ideal. But for me and my perfectionism... necessary.

Otherwise, at least listening to the pieces a lot would help if nothing else. It's impossible for me to read smoothly if I'm completely unfamiliar with the music. Hearing/playing it once a week (or however often you rehearse) is not enough!

Edit: I'll just add as a side note - it blows my mind how well everyone else in the band can read their parts. Scores we get for the first time, full of key changes and all, and most people get through it just fine (save a few technically difficult runs or weird rhythms). It wouldn't surprise me if I was one of the only people practicing at home in between rehearsals - even though I'm arguably playing some of the easiest parts for most pieces (lots of root-fifth action on those marches)

 

[AGCurry]

I doubt that your challenge comes from attention-deficit disorder; I suspect that you need to improve your sightreading skill - as do I. Just as in reading printed words, it's only when you're able to read ahead that you're truly proficient.

 

[Lee Moses]

You can take some of your skills from reading charts and apply them to sightreading music. Especially keeping track of where the downbeat is. So if you get completely lost in one measure, no big deal--just land strong on the downbeat of the following measure.

 

[g-dude]

I doubt that your challenge comes from attention-deficit disorder; I suspect that you need to improve your sightreading skill - as do I. Just as in reading printed words, it's only when you're able to read ahead that you're truly proficient.

No, I literally can get lost during a two measure rest.

I’m highly distractible, to put it mildly.

I suspect that having drums in other musical environments really helps, in addition to the other things I key off of.

 

[g-dude]

You can take some of your skills from reading charts and apply them to sightreading music. Especially keeping track of where the downbeat is. So if you get completely lost in one measure, no big deal--just land strong on the downbeat of the following measure.

Which is great when I don’t lose track of what measure we’re on!

 

[the_Ryan]

This probably won't help with sightreading, but if you are able to listen to the music beforehand so that you have things to listen for during rests do you think that would help?

 

[g-dude]

This probably won't help with sightreading, but if you are able to listen to the music beforehand so that you have things to listen for during rests do you think that would help?

Probably would.

Some of the songs are things that I have never heard before.

 

[jj.833]

I agree with @AGCurry - the problem with keeping track is common to anybody, despite his psychiatric diagnosis. It's just one of the levels of sight reading. Practice makes perfect. Just take the pictures of the sheets, print it at home, and practice. Make pencil marks when helpful. Play with and without the record.
If you needed to make it more interesting to focus better, learn to do harmonic, rhythmic, melodic analysis of the line. In the long run, the time you spend with the sheets without the instrument helps tremendously with memorizing, feeling the form, following the dynamics and so on.

 

[charliethomas]

Not a huge fan of people discounting ADHD as being a relevant factor here... Some things are just a whole lot harder when you have ADHD. Even doing the most basic everyday tasks can be like moving a mountain sometimes. Not saying it should be an excuse not to try, but sometimes it's helpful to hear perspectives from other people who struggle with similar things rather than be dismissed and told it's not actually a problem.

My entire musical experience growing up was shaped by ADHD, even though I didn't know it at the time. I was always extremely hard on myself because I just couldn't follow standard advice for how to practice. Motivation follows personal interest, which would change with the weather. Not to mention how much my mind would wander when I was on stage playing a solo piano piece. I aced theory and aural skills, but when it came to refining a piece of music over multiple months, I found it really difficult to stay motivated. Inability to focus ended up being the thing that made me change my major away from music in college, even though again I didn't realize it at the time - I figured I just wasn't cut out for music. (I must not care enough if I can't even focus, right?)

I didn't play music for years after dropping out of music school. Thankfully I improved my relationship with music over time, and I've gotten past a lot of the shame and self doubt that came from just not being able to practice music the same way as my peers. Had to develop my own techniques to practice effectively - "buckle down and woodshed" never worked for me.

Something I find great about having ADHD (that's relevant to this thread) is that sight reading can actually be a blast and a motivator to play my instruments. Constantly playing new things tickles my brain in a way that practicing the same few pieces for months never did. There's plenty of material out there to sight read, and it lets me play every day without getting "bored", while increasing my chops along the way.

Not sure if the dismissal of ADHD being relevant here is because of the proliferation of kids self diagnosing on TikTok lately. It's an unfortunate phenomenon, because while it increases awareness (I think a lot of people have it and don't realize if they didn't get diagnosed as a child), it gets to a point where it becomes "trendy" to say you have ADHD or etc., and then people who actually have it bad face backlash for discussing real struggles.

Or maybe some posters are old enough to be from the times where standard advice for neurodivergence was "suck it up buttercup"

 

[g-dude]

Not a huge fan of people discounting ADHD as being a relevant factor here... Some things are just a whole lot harder when you have ADHD. Even doing the most basic everyday tasks can be like moving a mountain sometimes. Not saying it should be an excuse not to try, but sometimes it's helpful to hear perspectives from other people who struggle with similar things rather than be dismissed and told it's not actually a problem.

My entire musical experience growing up was shaped by ADHD, even though I didn't know it at the time. I was always extremely hard on myself because I just couldn't follow standard advice for how to practice. Motivation follows personal interest, which would change with the weather. Not to mention how much my mind would wander when I was on stage playing a solo piano piece. I aced theory and aural skills, but when it came to refining a piece of music over multiple months, I found it really difficult to stay motivated. Inability to focus ended up being the thing that made me change my major away from music in college, even though again I didn't realize it at the time - I figured I just wasn't cut out for music. (I must not care enough if I can't even focus, right?)

I didn't play music for years after dropping out of music school. Thankfully I improved my relationship with music over time, and I've gotten past a lot of the shame and self doubt that came from just not being able to practice music the same way as my peers. Had to develop my own techniques to practice effectively - "buckle down and woodshed" never worked for me.

Something I find great about having ADHD (that's relevant to this thread) is that sight reading can actually be a blast and a motivator to play my instruments. Constantly playing new things tickles my brain in a way that practicing the same few pieces for months never did. There's plenty of material out there to sight read, and it lets me play every day without getting "bored", while increasing my chops along the way.

Not sure if the dismissal of ADHD being relevant here is because of the proliferation of kids self diagnosing on TikTok lately. It's an unfortunate phenomenon, because while it increases awareness (I think a lot of people have it and don't realize if they didn't get diagnosed as a child), it gets to a point where it becomes "trendy" to say you have ADHD or etc., and then people who actually have it bad face backlash for discussing real struggles.

Or maybe some posters are old enough to be from the times where standard advice for neurodivergence was "suck it up buttercup"

This 100%.

I can be playing something that requires no thought at all, it’s that automatic, and then something catches my attention and…

Unlike folks on social media, I actually have a medical diagnosis.

The upside is that when I do focus on something, it can be like a pitbull grabbing onto something…we’re talking not moving for hours when it comes to writing things (for example).

 

[g-dude]

Update…

This week was better.

I played arco and pizz where appropriate, and if it wasn’t clear, I decided based on the music.

Wasn’t perfect, but that’s okay.

They let us bring the folders home, so thankfully I can go through like eight or nine concerts worth of music and make notes and what not.

 

[chazolson]

I doubt that your challenge comes from attention-deficit disorder; I suspect that you need to improve your sightreading skill - as do I. Just as in reading printed words, it's only when you're able to read ahead that you're truly proficient.

Couldn't agree more. You would have to have the world's worst case of ADHD for sight reading to be an issue for you. How long does it take to read one measure's worth of bass line and play it back? Half a second? I play in a big band, in which everyone loves to read new charts - it's kind of the signature of the band. I needed to get better at reading to hang with these guys. Now I can. Does ADHD keep you from reading a book? Singing a melody? Then why should sight reading be an issue?

 

[charliethomas]

Couldn't agree more. You would have to have the world's worst case of ADHD for sight reading to be an issue for you. How long does it take to read one measure's worth of bass line and play it back? Half a second? I play in a big band, in which everyone loves to read new charts - it's kind of the signature of the band. I needed to get better at reading to hang with these guys. Now I can. Does ADHD keep you from reading a book? Singing a melody? Then why should sight reading be an issue?

I think as long as we're here to share tips and tricks that can work, that's great. I don't think any of the actual advice in this thread is bad.

Does it need to be couched in dismissive language? I would say that's unnecessary. Why go to a thread specifically about advice for someone with a roadblock just to tell them the roadblock is imaginary? I just don't see this kinda language actually being helpful for anyone in this situation.

There's a subtext of "you're just lazy or not trying hard enough" that people like me have been told our whole lives. Somehow, that sort of "advice" has never really been helpful.

Maybe if you don't have experience with a certain thing, leave it alone and let others who have dealt with it share their advice and experience.

Btw, ADHD definitely keeps me from reading a book. My eyes will go over every word on the page before I realize I wasn't actually reading or understanding any of it. I often have to reread a sentence 4 or 5 times before I understand it. My mind wandering makes it really difficult to focus. I still love reading, there's just more hurdles for me.

 

[jj.833]

Maybe if you don't have experience with a certain thing, leave it alone and let others who have dealt with it share their advice and experience.

I'll do just that. I tried to be helpful because I solved similar problem few years back. Sorry. Good luck.

 

[charliethomas]

I'll do just that. I tried to be helpful because I solved similar problem few years back. Sorry. Good luck.

I think your advice was really helpful and worthwhile to post! It's fine to offer general advice that can be useful to anyone! It's just the first two sentences of your post I have a problem with.

Advice can be given without judgement or presumption. If a friend asks you for help with a situation and you lead with "well actually you're wrong, the thing you identified is not a problem", they're just not going to be as receptive.

Anyway sorry, getting a bit off topic here.

Personally I think there's an unfilled niche for ADHD-specific advice regarding studying and performing music. Some light googling shows there have been a couple studies on musicians with ADHD. Here's an interesting dissertation I found on how classical musicians with ADHD operate differently: https://esploro.libs.uga.edu/esplor...ITH-ADHD-A-QUALITATIVE-STUDY/9949365950402959

Love the idea of promoting more empathy in general for others who may be a bit slower at picking things up or may lose their place more often.

 

[g-dude]

Couldn't agree more. You would have to have the world's worst case of ADHD for sight reading to be an issue for you.

With all due respect, you don't seem to understand the actual condition.

Does ADHD keep you from reading a book?

Yes. And absolutely not. There's very little in between.

I can absolutely blaze through complicated things like regulatory language, and the speed with which I read general things is really fast.

Unless I can't focus on it.

Then I can read a page five times and not be able to tell you what it said.

Then why should sight reading be an issue?

Do this:

1) Turn on the TV.
2) Turn on some music.
3) Watch a video of someone playing a fast paced sporting event.
4) Have someone talk to you.
5) Grab a piece of music you haven't played before and then start to sight read it at full speed.

That is what it feels like...

...except for situations where I end up having an absolutely hyper level of focus. And the band situation doesn't seem to be able to trigger this.

When those situations occur, usually when I'm writing, building a financial model, coding, etc. I can literally not budge for HOURS and be completely oblivious to the world.

It's really great for getting things done, but it also sucks on a few levels. I can't begin to articulate the level of annoyance I have when something snaps me out of a period of hyper focus -- it's completely out of proportion to simply being interrupted. It also sucks physically because I end up in a lot of pain afterwards from that whole "not moving" thing.

My son has ADHD, with a super capitalized H. If he opens a book that he is interested in, you cannot break his hyper focus without raising your voice or making physical contact. I can wave my hand in front of his face and he doesn't even notice...

Meanwhile, he gets distracted constantly. If we hear loud noises, we know he's jumping around and distracted. If it's really quiet, we know he's reading because he got distracted.

 

[g-dude]

I agree with @AGCurry - the problem with keeping track is common to anybody, despite his psychiatric diagnosis. It's just one of the levels of sight reading. Practice makes perfect. Just take the pictures of the sheets, print it at home, and practice. Make pencil marks when helpful. Play with and without the record.
If you needed to make it more interesting to focus better, learn to do harmonic, rhythmic, melodic analysis of the line. In the long run, the time you spend with the sheets without the instrument helps tremendously with memorizing, feeling the form, following the dynamics and so on.

Forgot to respond to this...

I'm so glad I got to bring home my folder, because I don't have an actual list of any of the songs.

With my other music that I play, I do a lot of this with the charts I get. The weird thing is, the more room I have to do my own thing, subject to the important constraint that it has to sound good and fit what everyone else is doing, the easier the act of music-ing becomes.