Adding modes to my playing?

[CaribooBass]

There is a strange thing out there in music theory called "Modes".

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.
Playing modes is really not that hard to do, understanding how they work and how to use them is another story.

Is there a book or a video out there that you have used that shows you how to start this process of learning?

Thank you for help with this.

Clayton

 

[mambo4]

Before you start exploring modes
can you harmonize the major scale?

because in terms of usefulness for a bass player harmony > modes
learn how chords are built from scales and how chord progressions work
then modes will slot neatly into that framework
but if you don't understand harmony, modes will have limited application

if you don't know what harmonizing the major scale means
check the pdf linked in my signature

 

[bholder]

Also, if you're playing with others, adding modes isn't really something you can do by yourself just in your playing - the whole ensemble needs to be doing it too.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Take a major scale. There are 7 basic chords, starting on each "scale degree" (note of scale):
1-3-5
2-4-6
3-5-7
4-6-8 (8 is octave of 1)
5-7-2 (2 is up an octave)
6-8-3 (3 is up an octave)
7-2-4 (4 is up an octave)

Simple!

Minor scale works same. Major and minor scales have same notes, but minor starts on degree 6 of major scale (major starts on degree 3 of minor scale).

For the chords above, you can add 7ths, 9ths etc: think in thirds.

Incredibly useful stuff if you improvise, and don't learn "covers" note-by-note. Basis of Nashville Numbers. Best to get a book, but simple explanation here: The Nashville Number System Demystified

Technically, the modes are the entire scale starting on each scale degree (Ionian, Dorian, etc.), but on bass, you GENERALLY want to stick to chords: Modes: What are they and how do I use them? - Classic FM. Knowing the whole scale of each mode is good for fill-notes, but starting with the chords above is most useful on bass.

With the above, you can create a "cheat-sheet" from a guitar chord-chart:
1) Figure-out key-signature Invalid Link Removed
2) Assign each chord a mode

Example for key of C (no sharps or flats):
C is 1
F is 4
G is 5

A LOT of rock/country is a 1, 4, 5 chord progression, in whatever key.

 

[Les Fret]

Also read this: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/discovered-the-modes-and-im-confused.1634422/

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.

Do you write poems?
Are you a poet?

 

[CallMeAl]

I use modes like any other scale, to add a new flavor. The classical use of modes is relative, eg using D Dorian in relation to C major. But the modern application is parallel, eg using D Dorian in a D tonality.

To me it’s all about getting to know scale degrees, and altered scale degrees, individually- what feeling they evoke and when you want to apply them. How does a 6 sound here? Ok, how about a b6?

Modes are pretty common. Mixolydian is only a b7 different than a major scale. Dorian is only one flat less than natural minor (6 instead of b6.) Both are very common in blues, country, rock and pop music.

here’s a scale syllabus, which compares the modes along with other scales. I feel this nicely outlines the modern (jazz) outlook on modes:
https://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FREE-scale-syllabus.pdf

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

There is a strange thing out there in music theory called "Modes".

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.
Playing modes is really not that hard to do, understanding how they work and how to use them is another story.

Is there a book or a video out there that you have used that shows you how to start this process of learning?

Thank you for help with this.

Clayton

The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine has two excellent chapters on modes.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I use modes like any other scale, to add a new flavor. The classical use of modes is relative, eg using D Dorian in relation to C major. But the modern application is parallel, eg using D Dorian in a D tonality.

Let's take a very simple song (but a beautiful one)
Robin Thicke , "Lost without you."
It's in C major.
We have the following chords:
Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7 | Fmaj7/Gmin-G#min - Amin |

The following is some melodic phrasing of the same notes: A E B G, just played rhythmically different for each chord.
What modes am I playing?
Dorian, Mixolydian, Phrygian?

 

[CallMeAl]

Let's take a very simple song (but a beautiful one)
Robin Thicke , "Lost without you."
It's in C major.
We have the following chords:
Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7 | Fmaj7/Gmin-G#min - Amin |

The following is some melodic phrasing of the same notes: A E B G, just played rhythmically different for each chord.
What modes am I playing?
Dorian, Mixolydian, Phrygian?

View attachment 5316608

What I was getting at is modes are just another flavor in the pantry, as it were. Not everything can be tied to a mode, and idk if it really applies to harmonic analysis.

In your example I see C major, with a G# passing tone. There’s a non diatonic minor V, but I still don’t see a mode there.

Some examples of what I was thinking would be a standard boogie bass line, 1 3 5 6 b7, being mixolydian. Or the intro riff in So what being in Dorian (B natural in a D minor line.)

 

[Whousedtoplay]

In your example I see C major, with a G# passing tone. There’s a non diatonic minor V, but I still don’t see a mode there.

Please, don't pay attention to that chromatic passing chord of G#minor. It's in the song, I can't remove it, but...
My rhetorical question in previous posting of Robin Thicke's song is about that purposely-confusing explanation/teaching of Modes.

 

[flannel cat]

I wondered about modes and was watching this, maybe it might help.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I wondered about modes and was watching this, maybe it might help.

After watching your provided video, let's try to answer my question/s from a previous posting with "Lost Without you" chords.

"We have the following chords:
Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7 | Fmaj7/Gmin-G#min - Amin |

The following is some melodic phrasing of the same notes: A E B G, just played rhythmically different for each chord.
What modes am I playing?
Dorian, Mixolydian, Phrygian?"

 

[aprod]

I ask Frank Gambale about how he teaches Modes (youtube.com)

 

[HolmeBass]

Before you start exploring modes
can you harmonize the major scale?

because in terms of usefulness for a bass player harmony > modes
learn how chords are built from scales and how chord progressions work
then modes will slot neatly into that framework
but if you don't understand harmony, modes will have limited application

if you don't know what harmonizing the major scale means
check the pdf linked in my signature

To me these two concepts are peas in the same pod.

The harmonized chords of the major scale are identical to the triads/7-chords/9-chords built from the modes of the major scale. The two concepts are inherently related.

Since building chords is well thought of as “stacking thirds”, this begs the question as to which thirds to stack. But looking at that concept as “take every other note from a scale” and it gets easier in my opinion.

Which scales do we take every other note from? The modes of the major scale! I think it ties together very well.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Also, if you're playing with others, adding modes isn't really something you can do by yourself just in your playing - the whole ensemble needs to be doing it too.

I would say that is not entirely true. I see no problem super imposing a modal idea during improvisation even if the rest of the band is not thinking in said mode. Guitarists do it all the time.

 

[themickster]

There is a strange thing out there in music theory called "Modes".

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.
Playing modes is really not that hard to do, understanding how they work and how to use them is another story.

Is there a book or a video out there that you have used that shows you how to start this process of learning?

Thank you for help with this.

Clayton

G A B C D E F# - G ionian (G major)
A B C D E F# G - A dorian
B C D E F# G A - B phrygian
C D E F# G A B - C lydian
D E F# G A B C - D mixolydian
E F# G A B C D - E aeolian (E natural minor)
F# G A B C D E - F# locrian

The chords for the key are
G Am Bm C D E F#dim

 

[bholder]

I would say that is not entirely true. I see no problem super imposing a modal idea during improvisation even if the rest of the band is not thinking in said mode. Guitarists do it all the time.

Guitarists do it poorly all the time, clashing with the rest of the band. That's more my experience.

 

[mambo4]

The harmonized chords of the major scale are identical to the triads/7-chords/9-chords built from the modes of the major scale. The two concepts are inherently related.

While this is quite true, you can learn to harmonize the 7 chords of a major scale and all the chord tones and passing tones without ever once having to think of a mode.

To me modes are extra cognitive overhead when it comes to learning harmony, prematurely sending beginners down unnecessary rabbit holes. My advice is to Lean the execution, familiarize your self with their sound, but don't stress out about "how to use modes" because at the end of the day you use them when you want that mode's sound, and that's it.

 

[SLO Surfer]

A LOT of rock/country is a 1, 4, 5 chord progression, in whatever key.

But these 1 4 5 progressions in these specific genres don’t often stick to a major key center of the 1 chord. The 1 chord in these genres isn’t typically based off the Ionian scale with a major 7th, and the 4 chord isn’t usually based off the Lydian scale with a raised 4th or major 7th. These genres play “modally” by making each chord (the 1 4 and 5) dominant/mixolydian chords. If you played C major Ionian scale over the 1, 4, 5 progression (in the key of C major) in these genres it would sound whack. If you played a mixolydian scale starting on the root of each chord, it would sound correct.