Umm, false.
I play each mode in each key, therefore, seven different scales and arpeggios per key. Some scales and arps are major, and some are minor.
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Adding modes to my playing?
- Thread starter CaribooBass
- Start date
I play each mode in each key, therefore, seven different scales and arpeggios per key. Some scales and arps are major, and some are minor.
Any TB thread about modes is like opening a well shook can of beer.
@CaribooBass as you can see there are many opinions about the value and application of modes.
Foaming up and spilling all over.
@CaribooBass as you can see there are many opinions about the value and application of modes.
Foaming up and spilling all over.
D
I figured as much.Guess what, The Trooper uses a scale too!E minor (natural)/E aeolian
So far, this thread provided just more confusion about Modes.
And, nobody has answered my simple question on Modes - playing the A E B G notes in the key of C.
I think that term, MODES, was "reinvented" to help less educated guitar players to figure out soloing notes over the chords.
And, later it (that "Modization"
) was applied to beginner (even jazz) bass players.
(The following is a "beautiful story" on how memorizing Modes diagrams on the guitar fretboard saved our guitar player.)
One day, a/any "less musically-educated" guitar player sees the chord Emin7.
"Oh, yes. I remember the "cage"/box/fingering note template to play over that chord."
It's E natural minor scale.
"Wow. It's strange - something doesn't sound right."
Let me try to use another "cage"/box/fingering combination that I've memorized it."
Maybe, it's E Dorian?
"What's happening? There is still something slightly wrong with my soloing."
"YES! Let me try that E Phrygian mode. Where is my phrygian diagram chart?"
"WOW! It worked!"
And now you know the rest of the story, "How MODES saved our guitar player."
And, nobody has answered my simple question on Modes - playing the A E B G notes in the key of C.
I think that term, MODES, was "reinvented" to help less educated guitar players to figure out soloing notes over the chords.
And, later it (that "Modization"
) was applied to beginner (even jazz) bass players.(The following is a "beautiful story" on how memorizing Modes diagrams on the guitar fretboard saved our guitar player.)
One day, a/any "less musically-educated" guitar player sees the chord Emin7.
"Oh, yes. I remember the "cage"/box/fingering note template to play over that chord."
It's E natural minor scale.
"Wow. It's strange - something doesn't sound right."
Let me try to use another "cage"/box/fingering combination that I've memorized it."
Maybe, it's E Dorian?
"What's happening? There is still something slightly wrong with my soloing."
"YES! Let me try that E Phrygian mode. Where is my phrygian diagram chart?"
"WOW! It worked!"
And now you know the rest of the story, "How MODES saved our guitar player."
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I would say this song is in D Dorian. So you play only one mode over all four chords.
OK.
My provided song, "Lost without you" has a clearly defined, clearly pronounced tonal chord progression.
It is a simple and clear example of a FUNCTIONAL HARMONY:
ii(7) - V(7) - I(maj7) - IV(maj7)
The chords from that song have functions.
In my provided example, the tone center is imposed by the chords and their progressions.
"If the song is in C major, the fact that you start the C major scale on a D does not mean the song now all of a sudden becomes D Dorian," but...
For a guitar player who is trying to solo over that chord progression, the fingering pattern of this/that MODE is a big help; therefore, our guitar player would decide to use the following modes with those simple function chords.
(Dear guitar player, have you googled the term, "diatonic?")
With the Dmin7 chord, the guitar player would use the Dorian (memorized) fingering pattern, with G7, the (memorized) Mixolydian fingering pattern, etc...
If "modes" does not work for you, maybe try chord progression. Chord Progressions - Music Theory Academy
Probably the main thing is to not use the same pattern on all chords in a song. The type of chord, as well as inversion (root note) are most noticeable.
Wanna drive a blues/country band nuts? Try playing the 3rd, 5th or 7th of the chord (inversion) where they expect the root!
Probably the main thing is to not use the same pattern on all chords in a song. The type of chord, as well as inversion (root note) are most noticeable.
Wanna drive a blues/country band nuts? Try playing the 3rd, 5th or 7th of the chord (inversion) where they expect the root!
for me the Dm is the tonal center. That’s what’s important. The C maj doesn’t feel as a I chord to me. That’s why is see it as D Dorian.
At the end of the day, I use them all the time, not just to evoke a modal sound. It is how I conceptualize harmony.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
Okay...
Now, if we continue on that "mode" path, then, let's take look at what differentiates the Dorian mode from the Aeolian mode.
"The major 6th is what differentiates the Dorian mode from the Aeolian mode."
In our case of (as you've figured out) D Dorian, it should be the note, B, but...
I've perused through the melody notes of that song and could not find even one B note.
I could not find that characteristic Dorian modal note - B in that song.
Is it the chord progression of Dmin7 to G7 that influenced your opinion?
I wasn't trying to dismiss your understanding of modes and harmony.
I just am pointing out that its not necessary to master modes in order to understand harmony.
It's all just different lenses to view music. Different paths to the same summit IMHO.
True to a certain point. Modes evoke a certain sound/mood or however you want to call it. That's why you have modal songs or music. And also each mode has certain harmonic progressions or chords that typically belong to that mode. So in that sense they are important for understanding harmony. Modes don't make it harder to understand harmony in my opnion, they sometimes even make it easier.
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You don't necessarily have to play all the notes of a mode to be in that mode. If the melody doesn't use the B it doesn't mean it's not there in the 'backgound' or in a chord. If you improvise over it you 'have to' use the B not the Bb. The B is also in the G7 chord, so it's there. So it's D Dorian not D minor/Aeolian. Try to play the D minor scale over that progression and you will hear that the Bb doesn't fit.
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If we harmonize the C major scale, we are going to have the following chords:
Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7(b5)
If we harmonize D Dorian, we are going to have very similar chords:
Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7(b5) Cmaj7
Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7(b5) and
Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7(b5) Cmaj7
What is the difference between Dmin7 from the harmonized C major scale and the Dmin7 chord from harmonized D Dorian?
I truly doubt that the "mode" musicians could answer that question.
Yes, you don't have to worry about this/that CHARACTERISTIC mode note when playing a TONAL song, but...
If one starts conversation about MODES, we must abide by some THEORY.
The characteristic modal note "establishes the unique feel of the mode."
Another distinct feature of a/any MODE is the third.
Probably, the third is therefore the first differentiator between modes - major or minor modes.
And, as our knowledgeable TB member Steve has mentioned several times,
"it's the principal note of the mode called finalis.
The intervals of all the other notes with respect to the finalis fully defined the mode."
But, when we are playing Tonal Music - songs that are using a Tonal Harmony - we don't need to care too much about those modes if you understand diatonicism.
Modes and those specific Mode fingering patterns (or "cage"/box) are helpful tools for our "soloing" guitar players immediately produce "beautiful" improvisation phrases.
Is there MODAL HARMONY?
Yes, it is.
"In Modal Harmony, chords DO NOT have a function.
A chord DOES NOT need to resolve to any other chord.
And, yes, "there is still a Tonal Center – for example the note D in the key of D Dorian (i.e. the root note)."
Most of us play modes, yet most of us are just not aware of it.
The difference is a matter of what you are harmonizing with, ie playing a phrase with D dorian over Dm, G7, C or playing it over F, Am, Dm.
that’s easy. In Cmaj the Dm7 functions as a II chord. In D Dorian it’s the I chord. Not so complicated. It’s all about what the tonal center is. That’s the whole thing what’s it all about with modes. I think you over analyse it a bit.
You are correct about playing a phrase with D Dorian over Dm, G7, and C, but...
Playing D Dorian over F, Am, Dmin, it's a little bit "confusing," because those chords F, Amin are not characteristic chords for D Dorian.
The characteristic chords for D Dorian are Emin7, G7, and Bmin7b5 as ii7, IV7, and vi7(b5).
(Usually, that vi7b5 is avoided in modal songs.)
