Adding modes to my playing?

[MVE]

Modes are a function of harmony.

Trying to learn, understand and internalize the sound of different modes on a single note instrument like a bass guitar is a fool’s errand.

Sit down at a piano/keyboard and play each mode of C with your right hand while playing a CMaj with your left.

In a just few minutes you will understand and hear how each modes sounds in relation to the major.

Switch your left hand to an Amin and run them all again.

Then try a simple progression like I, vi, ii, V with your left hand and then use each mode to then improvise a little melody. Its all white keys, the important thing is that you start and resolve your phrase on the mode you are working on.

Which ones do you like? Why?

 

[Wasnex]

There is a strange thing out there in music theory called "Modes".

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.
Playing modes is really not that hard to do, understanding how they work and how to use them is another story.

Is there a book or a video out there that you have used that shows you how to start this process of learning?

Thank you for help with this.

Clayton

Hint...if you are playing diatonically, you are already using them.

Do you know the shape of the Major scale? This is the same notes as Ionian mode.

Let's say we are in C major to keep in easy: C,D,E,F,G,A,B

The modes are simply the same notes as the major scale starting on different scale degrees.
1. Ionian: C,D,E,F,G,A,B
2. Dorian: D,E,F,G,A,B,C
3. Phrygian: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
4. Lydian: F,G,A,B,C,D,E
5. Mixolydian: G,A,B,C,D,E,F
6. Aeolian: A,B,C,D,E,F, G
7. Locrian: B,C,D,E,F, G,A


Now we will look at the relative minor (A). If you are using pure minor, it's the same modes, but you start on Aeolian.
1. Aeolian: A,B,C,D,E,F, G
2. Locrian: B,C,D,E,F, G,A
3. Ionian: C,D,E,F,G,A,B
4. Dorian: D,E,F,G,A,B,C
5. Phrygian: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
6. Lydian: F,G,A,B,C,D,E
7. Mixolydian: G,A,B,C,D,E,F

It gets a bit more messy when you use harmonic and (jazz) melodic minor.
1. Harmonic minor: A,B,C,D,E,F,G#
2. Locrian #6: B,C,D,E,F,G#,A
3. Ionian #5: C,D,E,F,G#,A,B
4. Dorian #4: D,E,F,G#,A,B,C
5. Phrygian Dominant: E,F,G#,A,B,C,D
6. Lydian #2: F,G#,A,B,C,D,E
7. Ultralocrian: G#,A,B,C,D,E,F

1. (Jazz) Melodic Minor: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#
2. Dorian b2: B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A
3. Lydian #5: C,D,E,F#,G#,A,B
4. Lydian Dominant: D,E,F#,G#,A,B,C
5. Mixolydian b5: E,F#,G#,A,B,C,D
6. Semilocrian: F#,G#,A,B,C,D,E
7. Superlocrian: G#,A,B,C,D,E,F#

 

[logdrum]

The OP will not really hear and understand the modes if you guys keep on this tangent of deriving if from C major or G major, because you are moving the tonal center along ( as in all white keys in C )
So instead of saying Dorian is DEFGABCD, keep the root in C

C Dorian is
CDEbFGABbC
vs Aeolian
CDEbFGAbBbC

You can probably say that this will work for minor chords.

and Lydian is just a raised 4th
CDEF#GABC

more illustrative than saying it's FGABCDEF

And no need to get into Chord Scales and extensions (like b9 #9). It's a good display of your knowledge but won't really tell the student what the modes are about. It's like drinking from a firehose. No wonder the OP said this.

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.

 

[flannel cat]

Hint...if you are playing diatonically, you are already using them.

Do you know the shape of the Major scale? This is the same notes as Ionian mode.

Let's say we are in C major to keep in easy: C,D,E,F,G,A,B

The modes are simply the same notes as the major scale starting on different scale degrees.
1. Ionian: C,D,E,F,G,A,B
2. Dorian: D,E,F,G,A,B,C
3. Phrygian: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
4. Lydian: F,G,A,B,C,D,E
5. Mixolydian: G,A,B,C,D,E,F
6. Aeolian: A,B,C,D,E,F, G
7. Locrian: B,C,D,E,F, G,A


Now we will look at the relative minor (A). If you are using pure minor, it's the same modes, but you start on Aeolian.
1. Aeolian: A,B,C,D,E,F, G
2. Locrian: B,C,D,E,F, G,A
3. Ionian: C,D,E,F,G,A,B
4. Dorian: D,E,F,G,A,B,C
5. Phrygian: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
6. Lydian: F,G,A,B,C,D,E
7. Mixolydian: G,A,B,C,D,E,F

It gets a bit more messy when you use harmonic and (jazz) melodic minor.
1. Harmonic minor: A,B,C,D,E,F,G#
2. Locrian #6: B,C,D,E,F,G#,A
3. Ionian #5: C,D,E,F,G#,A,B
4. Dorian #4: D,E,F,G#,A,B,C
5. Phrygian Dominant: E,F,G#,A,B,C,D
6. Lydian #2: F,G#,A,B,C,D,E
7. Ultralocrian: G#,A,B,C,D,E,F

1. (Jazz) Melodic Minor: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#
2. Dorian b2: B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A
3. Lydian #5: C,D,E,F#,G#,A,B
4. Lydian Dominant: D,E,F#,G#,A,B,C
5. Mixolydian b5: E,F#,G#,A,B,C,D
6. Semilocrian: F#,G#,A,B,C,D,E
7. Superlocrian: G#,A,B,C,D,E,F#

Booked marked for my education on my learning as i go journey.. Thank you.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

you don't "add modes to your playing". It's about having an understanding of them, but not 'thinking' about them. you don't want to show up to the gig and 'apply' them here and there. It's like, learn it, internalize it, and then forget it and just play freely.

 

[Wasnex]

The OP will not really hear and understand the modes if you guys keep on this tangent of deriving if from C major or G major, because you are moving the tonal center along ( as in all white keys in C )
So instead of saying Dorian is DEFGABCD, keep the root in C

C Dorian is
CDEbFGABbC
vs Aeolian
CDEbFGAbBbC

You can probably say that this will work for minor chords.

and Lydian is just a raised 4th
CDEF#GABC

more illustrative than saying it's FGABCDEF

And no need to get into Chord Scales and extensions (like b9 #9). It's a good display of your knowledge but won't really tell the student what the modes are about. It's like drinking from a firehose. No wonder the OP said this.

Small elusive notes that gravitate to bass giants like pilot fish; yet run away from us mere mortals.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, music theory is generally built incrementally on a foundation of knowledge you have already learned. So before you practice modes, you learn where they come from.

I used to frequently practice the standard modes. I thought of them this way:

You could approach the synthetic modes that are derived from harmonic and (jazz) melodic minor the same way...but it was too hard for me.

There are songs that are modal, so I do agree it's valuable to know the modes.

Here is an example:
Invalid Link Removed
This tune uses D and Eb Dorian... Dorian is actually written on the Real Book lead sheet (see above).


This tune uses the exact same mode, chords, and form.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Would it be fair to say there are two things going-on here?

• Analysis of how modes are derived, and a simple approach like "Nashville Numbers".
• Recognizing that different modes (scales) have their own sound.

I have used "Nashville Numbers" for years, but don't have a good ear for how the different modes sound, or which mode/pentatonic to play over which chord (other than Nashville Numbers). I heard Marcus Miller favors Dorian (derived from degree 2 of major scale), but again, I just think in terms of (what I understand as) classic harmony based on the major and minor keys. I believe he created his own mode/scale for the song "Blast!".

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Playing the major scale modes around the cycle of fourths (or whatever you wanna call it) is an excellent warmup of around 10-15 min, depending. Add melodic minor and you got a good half an hour of scale practice all over the neck. If you learn the chords they can make and learn to arpeggiate them too, then you realize you also know a bunch of chords that come up all the time. For me they're a great foundational learning tool.

 

[aprod]

Playing the major scale modes around the cycle of fourths (or whatever you wanna call it) is an excellent warmup of around 10-15 min, depending. Add melodic minor and you got a good half and hour of scale practice all over the neck. If you learn the chords they can make and learn to arpeggiate them too, then you realize you also know a bunch of chords that come up all the time. For me they're a great foundational learning tool.

That’s my practice routine.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

That’s my practice routine.

Are you a fretless player too?
I do this with a drone tone on the root/tonic, too.
Lotsa good cello tones out there to play with/over/against.

 

[frankie5string]

I have had so many sub gigs when bass players decided to "go modal" independent of the band.
I am convinced someone told bass players about modes so they'd be fired faster.

Go ahead and build dexterity and warm up however you wish, but you better be ready to play your chord-tones once the downbeat hits... ;-)

 

[micguy]

Also, if you're playing with others, adding modes isn't really something you can do by yourself just in your playing - the whole ensemble needs to be doing it too.

Bingo - you don't start playing minor inversions of the third of a chord when the chord everyone else is playing is a major one. That wou'd be an example of "applying a mode" that the rest of the band is not playing.

 

[Wasnex]

Bingo - you don't start playing minor inversions of the third of a chord when the chord everyone else is playing is a major one. That wou'd be an example of "applying a mode" that the rest of the band is not playing.

If you are simply playing diatonic to the key signature, you are playing modes: I.E. if you are in a Major key and play Dorian over ii, Mixolydian over V, and Aeolian over vi. You don't generally think of this as modal playing.

Regarding using a minor 3rd over a major triad....well you don't generally play a minor 3rd over a major 3rd, but you could start on the major 3rd and play a minor third above that...that's just the perfect 5th. Let's say the chord is D7 and you play F#, A, C, E over it. You just made the D7 a D9; it will most likely be fine. You might even get away with playing F#,A,C,Eb, which makes the chord a D7b9.

You also might actually play a minor 3rd over over a major 3rd...you get away with it by calling it an augmented 2nd (E#). Now the chord is D7+9 or D7#9. In some circles this is entirely acceptable.

In jazz it's fairly common to play Dorian over any minor 7 chord...even though that is not necessarily diatonic.

Also in jazz, you are free to use all sorts of scales that vary somewhat from the prevailing key signature. There are of course conventions for how you do this. But the ability to play "out" is not only accepted, it's generally expected.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

Scales and modes.!? ? No clue.
I can however, play "The Trooper".

 

[Ekulati]

Used to be, pre-Interwebs, learning took place somewhat hierarchically, with some things being naturally emphasized or deemphasized accordingly.

Welcome to the modern age. Where stuff is just all jumbled up into one big pot. So people read about something then assume they therefore must learn it. Regardless of where it really fits in the overall context of the subject matter at hand.

 

[jtg]

Is there a book or a video out there that you have used that shows you how to start this process of learning

Here's the deal: modes are part of the language of music and you should know them to me fluent. One practical way to become fluent is to watch Jaco's modern electric bass video and practice his two octave exercises. Check youtube. You don't have to be into jaco or Weather Report or fusion to benefit from this. This is one of the things I was taught while taking lessons as a teenager and it is foundational. The exercises will increase your musical understanding as well as technique.

When you're actually playing with people, don't think about these exercises or any others. But the music and technique you learned will manifest without your conscious intent.

 

[aprod]

Are you a fretless player too?
I do this with a drone tone on the root/tonic, too.
Lotsa good cello tones out there to play with/over/against.

No I play fretted basses. My next exercise is to add 1 4 5 chords for every mode.

 

[Les Fret]

Scales and modes.!? ? No clue.
I can however, play "The Trooper".

Guess what, The Trooper uses a scale too! E minor (natural)/E aeolian

 

[Les Fret]

Playing the major scale modes around the cycle of fourths (or whatever you wanna call it) is an excellent warmup of around 10-15 min, depending. Add melodic minor and you got a good half an hour of scale practice all over the neck. If you learn the chords they can make and learn to arpeggiate them too, then you realize you also know a bunch of chords that come up all the time. For me they're a great foundational learning tool.

That’s nice. But those are not modes, you are just practicing major scales in all keys, not the (sound of) modes.

 

[bholder]

If you are simply playing diatonic to the key signature, you are playing modes: I.E. if you are in a Major key and play Dorian over ii, Mixolydian over V, and Aeolian over vi. You don't generally think of this as modal playing.

Regarding using a minor 3rd over a major triad....well you don't generally play a minor 3rd over a major 3rd, but you could start on the major 3rd and play a minor third above that...that's just the perfect 5th. Let's say the chord is D7 and you play F#, A, C, E over it. You just made the D7 a D9; it will most likely be fine. You might even get away with playing F#,A,C,Eb, which makes the chord a D7b9.

You also might actually play a minor 3rd over over a major 3rd...you get away with it by calling it an augmented 2nd (E#). Now the chord is D7+9 or D7#9. In some circles this is entirely acceptable.

In jazz it's fairly common to play Dorian over any minor 7 chord...even though that is not necessarily diatonic.

Also in jazz, you are free to use all sorts of scales that vary somewhat from the prevailing key signature. There are of course conventions for how you do this. But the ability to play "out" is not only accepted, it's generally expected.

"Free" to use "out" tones - sure. Free to try. To be able to do it right, make it sound good, and not just strident noise, that's the tricky part. And it does depend on what others are doing to sound good - the other players need to "stay out of the way" of the alternate notes or risk making it strident cacophony.

And then there are times when "strident cacophony" is actually the artistic goal, part of the statement being made. It can work, yes, but in my book, is expert level, and well beyond my current abilities.

Just saying modes aren't "free to use" in that you have a recipe to do things that will definitely sound good. More like you have a license, one that must be used responsibly, or noise will result. Kinda like a driver's license - yeah free to drive where you want how you want, but no guarantees it'll work out well, that's the responsibility of the driver knowing what they're doing and where they're going.

I'lll shut up now before the Analogy Police come after me! lolz