Adding modes to my playing?

[Whousedtoplay]

the two major chords don't have the same structure but they do share the same scale source.

Would it be true,
that when we take two chords from the F#(Gb) harmonic minor scale
- C#(Db) dom7 and D (Ebb)maj7(6th) -
and start "vamping" them, we'll get a Modal composition example.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

By contrast, C# - D does not have any tonic-dominant progression needed for tonal function harmony. I would not call that "tonal music". It's more likely belong to "parallel harmony"...

We have the (Db) Phrygian Dominant scale from the parental Gb harmonic minor scale.

 

[Groove Master]

We have the (Db) Phrygian Dominant scale from the parental Gb harmonic minor scale.

F#minor harmonic, not Gb. So its the C# Dominant Phrygian. Just to clarify the naming. Kind of important since there is no Gb minor scale relative to Bbb Major

 

[Papageno]

We have the (Db) Phrygian Dominant scale from the parental Gb harmonic minor scale.

Yes C# is a dominant chord of F# minor, but with only the 2 chords C# and D, you don't have the tonic chord F# minor (the home base). There is no way to make tonal music with the tonic chord missing.

 

[Groove Master]

Would it be true,
that when we take two chords from the F#(Gb) harmonic minor scale
- C#(Db) dom7 and D (Ebb)maj7(6th) -
and start "vamping" them, we'll get a Modal composition example.

Fair enough but I do not care about naming it. I'm more interested at what to play and where it comes from.

If someone wants to know about the modes of the minor harmonic scale, the Tate's song is a good example of the arabic sound of that scale ;-)

 

[Whousedtoplay]

There is no way to make tonal music with the tonic chord missing.

It's a clear definition of Modal music.

 

[Dang75]

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I'm more interested at knowing what is "under the hood".

The following is a playful track,"Dr Hypenstein" - Redtenbacher's Funkestra with an energetically-bubbling bass-line.
(London-based bassist, composer, arranger and bandleader Stefan Redtenbacher is the mastermind behind Dr Hypenstein.)

There are two clearly marked harmonic sections/forms in the track structure:
(Lot's of Blues notes.)

A) G7 - F7/C

and

B) Gm7 - Bb - C/F

In the A section, you would think, "It's in the (Blues) C major."
But the B section, indicates that the song is in the key of Gm.
And the track end in G.

What is the key of the song?

 

[Groove Master]

The following is a playful track,"Dr Hypenstein" - Redtenbacher's Funkestra with an energetically-bubbling bass-line.
(London-based bassist, composer, arranger and bandleader Stefan Redtenbacher is the mastermind behind Dr Hypenstein.)

There are two clearly marked harmonic sections/forms in the track structure:
(Lot's of Blues notes.)

A) G7 - F7/C

and

B) Gm7 - Bb - C/F

In the A section, you would think, "It's in the (Blues) C major."
But the B section, indicates that the song is in the key of Gm.
And the track end in G.

What is the key of the song?

I know the key of the song.

Do you?

 

[mambo4]

What is the key of the song?

The appropriate answer depends on why we must identify the key
To notate clearly for others?
To meticulously eliminate any accidentals?
to identify scales to riff on?
to communicate to a jam band what sound to go for? ( Just tell em the chords and forget 'what key')

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I have to admit I've never thought of a song as being in the key of (blues) C or (blues) Anything.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I know the key of the song.

Do you?

It's in the key of G.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I have to admit I've never thought of a song as being in the key of (blues) C or (blues) Anything.

It's NOT(!!!) Blues C.
It's just the chord progression of V7 - IV7 - I looks very Blues alike.
There is NOTHING in the KEY of Blues!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The appropriate answer depends on why we must identify the key
To notate clearly for others?
To meticulously eliminate any accidentals?
to identify scales to riff on?
to communicate to a jam band what sound to go for? ( Just tell em the chords and forget 'what key')

The track is in the Key of G, but...
The first harmonic section "A" - G7 - F7 - C, could easily create a sensation of C being our Tonic.

What do you think about the bass-line?

 

[Groove Master]

It's in the key of G.

One would never thought the track been in C because the chords and the theory fits the bill. The sensation of a C tonality is a 100 miles away.

Cool bass-line vintage -style

 

[Whousedtoplay]

One would never thought the track been in C because the chords and the theory fits the bill. The sensation of a C tonality is a 100 miles away.

Cool bass-line vintage -style

Thank you very much for noticing a very nice bass-line!
My posting was to demonstrate a chord cadence/progression - G7 - F7 - C as something of V7 - IV7 and (false) I.

But, I've addressed it to a very knowledgeable Musician who has cut my "tricky" question short.
Now, would you say, that Form A could fit the Mixolydian mode "bill?"
Or that IV7 chord is "messing" up the theory?

Thank you for your comments and your skills, knowledge.

 

[Don Kasper]

I don't care much about the "Tonal/Modal" designations or discussion, but to my earz, the tune below is in the Tonic Tonality(tm) of "C7". I don't find it helpful to analyze modern (late 19th and 20th century, and later...) music using archaic 18th century Theory. I just don't find it helpful from a playing/hearing perspective. IMFO, of course.(And, YES, I did graduate from Music School...and, YES, I did study some Heinrich Schenkerian Analysis. Yawn.)
Not looking for a Bass Brawl.
Spoiler Alert: Nobody shouts out - "Can I go to the Bridge, Fellas? Take me to the Bridge!".
Thanks.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I don't care much about the "Tonal/Modal" designations or discussion, but to my earz, the tune below is in the Tonic Tonality(tm) of "C7".

It's all about that Blues.
As in the key of (Blues) C.
Cool!

P.S. But there is some subdominant/dominant chord movement.

Spoiler Alert: Nobody shouts out - "Can I go to the Bridge, Fellas? Take me to the Bridge!".

I know why they don't shout about the bridge.
They are on the bridge!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

( Just tell em the chords and forget 'what key')

Kind of, yes, but sometimes the guitar player is trying to figure out what "scale" or what "mode" to play when soloing over this/that chord structure/progression.
And, usually, those terms of Modes (in TONAL Music) are very helpful for that reason.

My question/point of providing the "Dr Hypenstein" track as an example, was slightly "obfuscated."
From our old (and long) discussions about Modes at TB long time ago, I was expected to hear something like,
"We have Mixolydian for that G7 - F7 chord progression," followed by another question,
"Is it really Mixolydian when you have V7 and IV7," but...
Our TB members are more "hooked on" youtube visual "shimmering" then participating in discussions at TB.
Times have changed.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I have to admit I've never thought of a song as being in the key of (blues) C

Traditional Classical Western Harmony is a little bit confused about the Dominant 7th chord as our Tonic chord.