Adding modes to my playing?

[SteveCS]

...
Our TB members are more "hooked on" youtube visual "shimmering" then participating in discussions at TB.
...

Ouch!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Ouch!

All those "miracle" videos like, "Modes in 10 minutes," "Harmony in 30 minutes," etc... are extremely attractive to our younger generations of musicians. No need to think, just watch that video for 30 minutes, and you are "done."

 

[SteveCS]

All those "miracle" videos like, "Modes in 10 minutes," "Harmony in 30 minutes," etc... are extremely attractive to our younger generations of musicians. No need to think, just watch that video for 30 minutes, and you are "done."

Agreed! He/She/They/We might be 'done', but the inevitable next question is "Why am I none the wiser!"

 

[mambo4]

sometimes the guitar player is trying to figure out what "scale" or what "mode" to play when soloing over this/that chord structure/progression.
And, usually, those terms of Modes (in TONAL Music) are very helpful for that reason.

I admit I'm not a master of modal playing
But from what I have heard from the greats,
that would be a sub-optimal way to use modes

If identifying the key is in pursuit of finding the one magic scale pattern
that I can mindlessly wank on in total ignorance of the chord progression
Then I submit that is not the best approach
(though it is fun, and I have at times done exactly that)

Of course if you say "Hey B.B. King, this is a blues in F"
You're kind of identifying the "key"
and B.B would doubtless take it somewhere sublime
but it wouldn't be playing playing a single scale

TLDR: following chords is better than finding the "right scale"

 

[mambo4]

Agreed! He/She/They/We might be 'done', but the inevitable next question is "Why am I none the wiser!"

I recently stumbled onto this great Guthrie Govan explanation:

When you're learning a new scale or stealing a lick from someone,
it's passive vocabulary, it's in your brain, you know the facts,
but you have to go through a thought process
and choose to access this thing you have just learned
and then try and force it into a musical situation
so it's not immediate


It needs to become active vocabulary,
you need to get to know that idea better, so that it's just in you
and when the situation presents itself
and it's the right moment to unleash that
little nugget of knowledge that you have learned
your instincts will know, and it will just come

 

[Whousedtoplay]

If identifying the key is in pursuit of finding the one magic scale pattern
that I can mindlessly wank on in total ignorance of the chord progression

Let's say, you've told you band members, "Hey, let's learn a new song. I think our audience would like it. Here are the chords."
And someone from the band suddenly places a question, "What key is that song in?"
Are you going to get mad and say, "Don't worry about that stupid key?"

I've learned that the "pure" chords could lead to some confusion.
Let's say, Dmin - is it from D natural, harmonic, melodic or Dorian?
Who cares? I'm OK with that.

Sometimes, we have chord substitutions.
Let's say, Db7 (Vdom7) should lead to Tonic but it leads to C.

Chords could be compared to a body skeleton, but what's in between those bones - chord notes?
For any soloing/improvising instrument, a/any (just) chord does not tell anything about those "soft tissues" of the body.
Yes, ALL improvisers are trained to improvise over this/that (just one) chord, but having comprehension about the Harmonic structure of the whole song and/or the song's subdivisions/forms/sections, is more valuable.
Yes, when a bass player looks at the chord chart and sees "something" different, he/she/they can always resort to, "Just play the root and/or other notes but from the chord, and stop overthinking about anything else," but...
Some people want to know more.
What's wrong with that?

 

[mambo4]

Are you going to get mad and say, "Don't worry about that stupid key!"

Hah of course not. I favor helpful communication over "correct"
After demonstrating the chords,
I'd just tell them what key it mostly looks like, and likely throw in some style qualifier
"A minor blues"
"Sort of a Funk in G"

Honestly , the guys I jam with these days wouldn't know what to do with key , lol.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Honestly , the guys I jam with these days wouldn't know what to do with key , lol.

Instead of a "smoke" break, just have a "theory" break.

"Sort of a Funk in G"

Does it come as G7#9?

 

[Les Fret]

Here is Jordan Rakei's new song, "Freedom."
We have two chords - Ebmaj7(or Ebmaj9) and Dmin11/G. Please be advised that those two chords could have different voicings.

(Sometimes, there is a pick up chord between those as Bbmaj7(orBbmaj9.)

The bass plays just Eb and G with some walking notes to a new chord.

It means we have just Eb major and G minor chord movement.

My questions.
Is this song Tonal or Modal.
What is the key of the song - Eb or G minor?





The next Hip-Hop song - Tate McRae - think later, has two chords:
Db major and D major.

Is this song Tonal or Modal.

First song is D Phrygian
Second song is C# Phrygian Dominant

 

[Les Fret]

The following is a playful track,"Dr Hypenstein" - Redtenbacher's Funkestra with an energetically-bubbling bass-line.
(London-based bassist, composer, arranger and bandleader Stefan Redtenbacher is the mastermind behind Dr Hypenstein.)

There are two clearly marked harmonic sections/forms in the track structure:
(Lot's of Blues notes.)

A) G7 - F7/C

and

B) Gm7 - Bb - C/F

In the A section, you would think, "It's in the (Blues) C major."
But the B section, indicates that the song is in the key of Gm.
And the track end in G.

What is the key of the song?

first part is G Mixolydian

 

[Les Fret]

I don't care much about the "Tonal/Modal" designations or discussion, but to my earz, the tune below is in the Tonic Tonality(tm) of "C7". I don't find it helpful to analyze modern (late 19th and 20th century, and later...) music using archaic 18th century Theory. I just don't find it helpful from a playing/hearing perspective. IMFO, of course.(And, YES, I did graduate from Music School...and, YES, I did study some Heinrich Schenkerian Analysis. Yawn.)
Not looking for a Bass Brawl.
Spoiler Alert: Nobody shouts out - "Can I go to the Bridge, Fellas? Take me to the Bridge!".
Thanks.

C Mixolydian. Or jam on C7 till you get tired.

 

[Les Fret]

modes aren't very important for us bassists.

I disagree. Why not? There are a lot of modal tunes and songs (as can be seen in this topic for example). And why is this less important for a bassist than for any other musician?

 

[mambo4]

Modes aren't less important for bassists
but they are less important than understanding harmony
beginners tend to learn the fingering patterns
and distract themselves trying to find application
instead of learning how to support a I - vi -ii -V etc

Roman numerals > greek names

 

[Whousedtoplay]

distract themselves trying to find application
instead of learning how to support a I - vi -ii -V etc

Your provided chord progression is TELLING us the "story" (scale.)
Let's say, I is C major = C - E - G
vi (Amin) = A - C - E
ii (Dmin) = D - F - A
V (G) = G - B - D

All those notes give us the following notes/scale:
C D E F G A B C

 

[Whousedtoplay]

first part is G Mixolydian

My next question is this.
If the first part is G Mixolydian, then, what to do with clearly pronounced/marked/identified F7 chord?
G Mixolydian does not have Eb note.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

C Mixolydian. Or jam on C7 till you get tired.

C Mixolydian does not have that BLUES Eb (D#) note that the soloing and other instruments are playing a lot.

 

[Les Fret]

C Mixolydian does not have that BLUES Eb (D#) note that the soloing and other instruments are playing a lot.

C Mixolydian doesn't mean that you can only play notes of the C Mixolydian mode. You can play the C blues scale or C minor pentatonic over C7 any time.

 

[Les Fret]

My next question is this.
If the first part is G Mixolydian, then, what to do with clearly pronounced/marked/identified F7 chord?
G Mixolydian does not have Eb note.

Good point. Just avoid the E altogether over the F7 or change the E to Eb at that point. Making it a F Mixolydian over F7. Or play Gm pentatonic or G Blues scale over both chords. But the overal 'key' for that part is still G Mixolydian to me

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Good point. Just avoid the E altogether over the F7 or change the E to Eb at that point. Making it a F Mixolydian over F7. Or play Gm pentatonic or G Blues scale over both chords. But the overal 'key' for that part is still G Mixolydian to me

That cadence of G7 - F7 does sound like being from the Blues form that uses seventh chords.

 

[Les Fret]

That cadence of G7 - F7 does sound like being from the Blues form that uses seventh chords.

yes! It’s essentially the V-IV bar 9 and 10 from the 12 bar blues. But since there is no C chord the G7 serves as the key centre.