Adding modes to my playing?

[Schlyder]

I disagree. Why not? There are a lot of modal tunes and songs (as can be seen in this topic for example). And why is this less important for a bassist than for any other musician?

Because our main role as bassists is focus on rhythm, chord tones and chord progressions. If you don't understand harmony/theory very well, learning the modes isn't going to help you with very much. More knowledge of harmony theory will go a lot farther... and you will learn about modes with better context of their uses as you gain that harmony knowledge. Most people that ask about modes are missing the information that is needed before learning about the modes.

 

[Groove Master]

Because our main role as bassists is focus on rhythm, chord tones and chord progressions. If you don't understand harmony/theory very well, learning the modes isn't going to help you with very much. More knowledge of harmony theory will go a lot farther... and you will learn about modes with better context of their uses as you gain that harmony knowledge. Most people that ask about modes are missing the information that is needed before learning about the modes.

Good point

 

[Whousedtoplay]

But since there is no C chord the G7 serves as the key centre.

..., but there is that C chord.

A) G7 - F7/C

 

[Whousedtoplay]

following chords is better than finding the "right scale"

I'm checking the chart, Billboard Hot 100 for anything interesting to me.
Lot's of ..., but...
Here is a song (currently in No#: 4 position) - Teddy Swims - Losing Control.
Yes, it's (extremely) simple track.
The chords are:
F#min - Amaj7 (diatonic) - Dmaj7(diatonic) and C#sus4 - C#.

The bass line is very laconic, but that's what (probably) the arranger/producer wanted.

I just have a question.
At the end of the cadence - we have that C# chord,
if I wanted to walk to the tonic chord of F#minor (harmonic),
should I use the diatonic notes of F#harmonic minor: C# - D - E# - to F#
or
C# D# E# to F#?
The question is about that D or D#.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Because our main role as bassists is focus on rhythm, chord tones and chord progressions.

Many years ago when I was a teenager (6 years old), I went (my Mom sent me) to a four-year Music school "majoring" as an accordion player.
And the very first thing was, "It's all about the SCALES."
All those chords came in later.

I've started playing the bass guitar when I was 14 year old.
Do you mean that my upbringing was "wrong?"

 

[SteveCS]

I'm checking the chart, Billboard Hot 100 for anything interesting to me.
Lot's of ..., but...
Here is a song (currently in No#: 4 position) - Teddy Swims - Losing Control.
Yes, it's (extremely) simple track.
The chords are:
F#min - Amaj7 (diatonic) - Dmaj7(diatonic) and C#sus4 - C#.
...
At the end of the cadence - we have that C# chord,
if I wanted to walk to the tonic chord of F#minor (harmonic),
should I use the diatonic notes of F#harmonic minor: C# - D - E# - to F#
or
C# D# E# to F#?
The question is about that D or D#.

Since both D and D# are diatonic in the key F# minor (-6 and ^6 respectively), either or both could be used at will, subject to reasonable constraints of 'good taste'.

 

[mambo4]

I just have a question.
At the end of the cadence - we have that C# chord,
if I wanted to walk to the tonic chord of F#minor (harmonic),
should I use the diatonic notes of F#harmonic minor: C# - D - E# - to F#
or
C# D# E# to F#?
The question is about that D or D#.

What I would do is try both and pick what my ear tells me fits best
Given the bluesy sound I 'd likely land on D# for a closer to Dorian flavor
or just as likely use both D and D# for some chromatic funk
but I would only understand my choices in those terms after the fact

I would be very unlikely to take the mental time to analyze what key/scale I'm in
and let my immediate choice fall out of that framework
Style vocabulary + ears is just faster

I have often said :
I don't choose to play modes,
But often I end up playing modes.

But that's me, everyone's path up Theory Mountain is different

 

[Whousedtoplay]

subject to reasonable constraints of 'good taste'.

"Good Taste" depends on "but who is your teacher?"

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Given the bluesy sound I 'd likely land on D# for a closer to Dorian flavor

It strange, for me, it's the note D that gives more of that "bluesy" sound.
The D# note sounds more like, "I will impose that D# on you."

 

[mambo4]

It strange, for me, it's the note D that gives more of that "bluesy" sound.
The D# note sounds more like, "I will impose that D# on you."

You may be right, I answered off the top of my head
using theory instead of actually trying it an listening , lol

 

[Groove Master]

It would be a regular Oh Baby C#-D#-E#-F#

I would get fired on the session otherwise

 

[SteveCS]

"Good Taste" depends on "but who is your teacher?"

Having just had a 'play-along', my ear (always the final arbiter of good taste) says the D# is less intrusive in an ascending line (C#, D#, E#, F#), but the D could be used in an ornamental 'turn' (C#, D, C#, B, C#) for a more 'Spanish' or 'Eastern' (Phrygian) flavour once you get to the C# chord (after the sus4).

 

[Groove Master]

Having just had a 'play-along', by ear (always the final arbiter of good taste) says the D# is less intrusive in an ascending line (C#, D#, E#, F#), but the D could be used in an ornamental 'turn' (C#, D, C#, B, C#) for a more 'Spanish' or 'Eastern' flavour once you get to the C# chord (after the sus4).
View attachment 5344796

Agree. If I would be walking over that pop progression of Swims than it could be more interesting to play the D but I would go back to C# instead of going up because it would sound too minor harmonic which is not the color of the chord progression here.

 

[Groove Master]

It strange, for me, it's the note D that gives more of that "bluesy" sound.
The D# note sounds more like, "I will impose that D# on you."

Here is what is "under the hood" with your tricky question:

In a minor key there can be 3 scales involved at some points: Harmonic, Natural and Melodic.

Here with your question about D or D# (D# is the best choice btw) and here is why.

We have the perfect example of the way classical musicians practice their minor scales. It goes up as a Melodic minor and goes down as a Natural minor scale.

On the C# chord with your bassline going up to F# minor we have the second tetrachord of the F# melodic and that resolves to the minor Natural for the rest of the chord progression.
The C#7 scale here is the Mixolydian (b6) fifth mode of the Melodic minor scale.

Hope this helps,

GM

 

[Whousedtoplay]

but the D could be used in an ornamental 'turn'

D as a reminder of C#7b9 (the usual V7b9 chord) resolving to i.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Here with your question about D or D# (D# is the best choice btw) and here is why.

The original bass-line from that track is not "touching" D or D#.
Yes, sometimes it arpeggiates - C# - G# - C# and back the same way.
To my ears, D sounds "bluesy" (and everybody in the band would ask,"What was that?"), while D# sounds more like, "Because, I said so."

Another interesting thing. That pop song "refuses" to play C#7 after C#sus4.
Instead of C#7 (or C#7b9) just "pure" C# major chord.

 

[Papageno]

At the end of the cadence - we have that C# chord,
if I wanted to walk to the tonic chord of F#minor (harmonic),
should I use the diatonic notes of F#harmonic minor: C# - D - E# - to F#
or
C# D# E# to F#?
The question is about that D or D#.

I am not fond of the sound of the augmented second (D - E#) in a walking line. So I would go quite naturally for the D# instead (melodic minor).

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I am not fond of the sound of the augmented second (D - E#) in a walking line.

Yes, that sound would wake up everybody in the band.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Let's look at one more "modal" sounding track from Billboard 100.
It's our Grammy 2024 winner - SZA.
(Don't worry, the video does not have any visual distraction.)

We have the "samo-samo" three chord progression (they get Grammies for it) of

Dmin7 - Emin7 - Fmaj7.

The first melody phrase in Verse 1 has the C major chord notes:
E - C - D - E - C - ... and the melodic phrase ends on C and G (while the comping chord is Fmaj7).
The second phrase in Verse 1 also ends on "pure" C.

The first look at the melody would give us a simple C - G - G - C chord progression, but the arranger has decided to "confuse" us with Dmin7 - Emin7 - Fmaj7.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Having just had a 'play-along', my ear (always the final arbiter of good taste) says the D# is less intrusive in an ascending line (C#, D#, E#, F#), but the D could be used in an ornamental 'turn'

I've tried and I liked the notes of F# G# A B C# and, D (in any/various combinations) to be used in any "fills" with any chords - Amaj7, Dmaj7, C# - from that song.
I'd like to ask you a question.
We are in the last chord of the cadence - C#.

What pick-up note from the "pool" of my provided notes would be the best note to play before we end up on F# on Beat 1?
Is it C# or D, or G#, or A, or B?