All New Redesigned 2018 Music Man Stingray!

[bovinehost]

I believe the SLO option is now officially Not Appearing In This Film. Matching headstocks - the upcharge (it's a PITA to do the headstocks) would have been too much for the market. And no lefties. Scott Ball said maybe 10 were ordered last year, so while everyone regrets not servicing the lefty population, there was no return on investment.

Business decisions sometimes suck for us, but they're made for reasons.

 

[rogerbmiller]

I believe the SLO option is now officially Not Appearing In This Film. Matching headstocks - the upcharge (it's a PITA to do the headstocks) would have been too much for the market. And no lefties. Scott Ball said maybe 10 were ordered last year, so while everyone regrets not servicing the lefty population, there was no return on investment.

Business decisions sometimes suck for us, but they're made for reasons.

So just to clarify, there are no more lefty EBMM basses being made?

 

[bovinehost]

"2018 Stingrays are only available in H / HH. There are 64 combinations of the Stingray available this year. We didn't add fretless (l think 10 to 20 total last year) or HS (less than 50). Matching headstocks take a lot of extra work and the up charge would price itself out of the market." (Scott Ball quote)

There, now I realize he was talking about fretless, not lefties. I THINK I heard that lefties were no longer available, though, but now I can't remember who I was talking to. So don't take my word as gospel on that.

 

[rogerbmiller]

"2018 Stingrays are only available in H / HH. There are 64 combinations of the Stingray available this year. We didn't add fretless (l think 10 to 20 total last year) or HS (less than 50). Matching headstocks take a lot of extra work and the up charge would price itself out of the market." (Scott Ball quote)

There, now I realize he was talking about fretless, not lefties. I THINK I heard that lefties were no longer available, though, but now I can't remember who I was talking to. So don't take my word as gospel on that.

I am a rightie so I asked out of curiosity. But I love me my fretless MM basses so I am kinda crushed reading this response!

 

[GreyBeard]

So high mass bridges are out of fashion, now it's low mass bridges!

Just like flatwound vs roundwound. What was old hat is now new again. Low mass bridges are actually brighter with less fundamental than the high mass type. I think they will have had to tweak the preamp quite a bit to balance all these changes.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Am I on crack, or is this the first bass I've heard of with SS frets? (please, show me how wrong I am but I've never heard of it on bass)

Kiesel maybe?

I have a 10 year old warmoth neck that has ss frets so they've been around at least that long

 

[laneline]

While really bummed they didn't make a 5 string Caprice, I'm most sure I'll get a SR5 HH, just have to decide if it's Tobacco Burst or Natural but both with a Maple neck and board.

 

[twinjet]

Looks like if I want what I like, it won't be anything new from EB...

Irrelevant, but I really like how you worded this because I've never met anyone wanting something they didn't like.

 

[Heavy Blue]

As I said, the pre-amp & pickup have never changed after the first few revisions in the late 70's / early 80's - though of course pickup height is definitely a big factor.

I thought the pickups were
ceramic for a short time around 2002-03 which would include mine.

Ditto!

Adjusted the truss rod a few times, for taste - not out of necessity - in the first few years.

Other than that, haven't needed, or even wanted, to adjust the truss rod in 25 years.

That said, I'm in the UK : we don't get really hot summers, or really cold winters.


And no weak G either (though I did encounter a certain gauge / brand of strings where the G had the volume, but not the "weight").

Stingrays always felt light to me, compared with everything else I was playing.

Bang on! Yep, adjusted for "taste", not out of necessity.

And my climate is the polar opposite to yours. Hot summers, -40 winters, dry as a popcorn fart.

Like your description of the G "having the volume, but not the weight" with certain strings.

Anyone having issues with this ought to try some flats.

Ohhh God, don't get me started LOL! Ever noticed that 99% of lefty basses are black? And all the basses you love don't come in lefty? LOL! I'm not going to whine anymore. I'm just glad there are EVEN lefty basses available!

Say it bro! Lol

But yeah, I'm really resistant to black instruments now. At least till I play them lol.

But seriously, right now I want to get a Schecter Diamond P but it's black as usual and the J is just stunning in Ivory/tort/rosewood and also available as a fiver so now I'm debating between the P and the J5.

I believe the SLO option is now officially Not Appearing In This Film. Matching headstocks - the upcharge (it's a PITA to do the headstocks) would have been too much for the market. And no lefties. Scott Ball said maybe 10 were ordered last year, so while everyone regrets not servicing the lefty population, there was no return on investment.

Business decisions sometimes suck for us, but they're made for reasons.

Well I gotta say something here.

My SR4 is my #1 and I am really fortunate to have gotten it when I did. Going to the grave with that one.

However if one wants to service the lefty players you have to put the word out there that they even exist. Manufacturers are often pretty awful at getting the word out of what is even available left handed. Putting lefty sections for all your lefty gear in one part of your website & KEEPING IT CURRENT is a start.

Two, sales people at stores need to get their act together and stop treating lefties like we have a disease. For the record. I tried playing regular gear as a teen and it was a non starter. When I discovered lefty gear in my 30's my musical journey finally started.

Anyway, sales people need to stop being condonscending about it and keep their left handed piano jokes to themselves and just go their damn job and that is to hook us up with what is available.

It also isn't their job to "convert" fledgling lefties to righty either. That only compounds the problem and quite a few of these "converted" players don't stick it out which only lower future sales and further lowers the availability of lefty gear.

Three, I'm not buying this stuff about "no return on investment". More like "not enough return on investment" imo.

We live in an age of CNC. Mirror image at flick of switch. There is no excuse to not have lefty gear available and not whack us with a ridiculous upcharge a la Gibson.

If you actually want to make real money producing lefty gear, then you have to commit to it and not treat it like a fringe element like Fender.

Look at Schecter. They're doing well producing a variety of high quality lefty gear and lefties pass the word around.

Music Man iirc has not offered any new model offerings in lefty for decades now. Just the SR, SR5, & Sterling 4 iirc. Talk about coasting on one's laurels! I would've loved a Caprice with a maple board in a nice colour (CAR or similar) and would've saved for one.

I wonder if someone was to start making lefty only MM inspired instruments like Haskell Guitars does with its line of left-only Gibson inspired products how MM would react? Good for thought...

 

[Wood and Wire]

I thought the pickups were
ceramic for a short time around 2002-03 which would include mine.



Bang on! Yep, adjusted for "taste", not out of necessity.

And my climate is the polar opposite to yours. Hot summers, -40 winters, dry as a popcorn fart.

Like your description of the G "having the volume, but not the weight" with certain strings.

Anyone having issues with this ought to try some flats.




Say it bro! Lol

But yeah, I'm really resistant to black instruments now. At least till I play them lol.

But seriously, right now I want to get a Schecter Diamond P but it's black as usual and the J is just stunning in Ivory/tort/rosewood and also available as a fiver so now I'm debating between the P and the J5.



Well I gotta say something here.

My SR4 is my #1 and I am really fortunate to have gotten it when I did. Going to the grave with that one.

However if one wants to service the lefty players you have to put the word out there that they even exist. Manufacturers are often pretty awful at getting the word out of what is even available left handed. Putting lefty sections for all your lefty gear in one part of your website & KEEPING IT CURRENT is a start.

Two, sales people at stores need to get their act together and stop treating lefties like we have a disease. For the record. I tried playing regular gear as a teen and it was a non starter. When I discovered lefty gear in my 30's my musical journey finally started.

Anyway, sales people need to stop being condonscending about it and keep their left handed piano jokes to themselves and just go their damn job and that is to hook us up with what is available.

It also isn't their job to "convert" fledgling lefties to righty either. That only compounds the problem and quite a few of these "converted" players don't stick it out which only lower future sales and further lowers the availability of lefty gear.

Three, I'm not buying this stuff about "no return on investment". More like "not enough return on investment" imo.

We live in an age of CNC. Mirror image at flick of switch. There is no excuse to not have lefty gear available and not whack us with a ridiculous upcharge a la Gibson.

If you actually want to make real money producing lefty gear, then you have to commit to it and not treat it like a fringe element like Fender.

Look at Schecter. They're doing well producing a variety of high quality lefty gear and lefties pass the word around.

Music Man iirc has not offered any new model offerings in lefty for decades now. Just the SR, SR5, & Sterling 4 iirc. Talk about coasting on one's laurels! I would've loved a Caprice with a maple board in a nice colour (CAR or similar) and would've saved for one.

I wonder if someone was to start making lefty only MM inspired instruments like Haskell Guitars does with its line of left-only Gibson inspired products how MM would react? Good for thought...

The Stingray 5 had ceramic pickups for a while - but not the Stingray.

Of course there have been options like Piezo, and Single Coil pickups, in addition to the Alnico Humbucker.


Regarding the left handed thing : I'm sympathetic, being left handed myself - although in reality I'm ambidextrous.

When started out, I spent a few weeks playing my sisters nylon strung guitar (I stripped it down to 4 strings), strung left handed, and then right handed.

During that time, I quickly noticed the scarcity of left handed bass guitars available (new, or second hand), and the premium prices they fetched.

I also really hated the fact that left handed Rickenbackers looked the company was either trying to be ironic, or were just making a token gesture, and that Fender, and Music Man headstocks just looked too weird, especially with the decal not working from a graphic design perspective.

Needless to say, it made more sense to play right handed.


The thing is, guitars vastly outsell basses, and famous players really have a significant impact on the sales of whatever axe they happen to wield.

There are few popular musical icons bigger than Jimmy Hendrix, or Kurt Cobain...

... And whilst there was a brief surge in the availability of left handed Fender guitars, in the wake of Nevermind's success, there just never was a rise of the left handed guitarist.

I think it's amazing that EBMM manage to do what they do, at the prices they charge, and do it entirely in the U.S. as a small, family run, independent manufacturer.

If it weren't for Ernie Ball strings, they probably couldn't - I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the sales of strings, occasionally supports the instruments side of the business, or that the sales of guitars occasionally supports the longevity of some of the bass models (though for all I know, strings, accessories, amps, pedals, guitars, and basses, are all compartmentalised???).

It's very obvious there have been many significant changes to the industry, and the laws (both internationally, and at the state level) by which they operate, not to mention the market.

EBMM is having to stay agile, and roll with the punches - and unfortunately that means certain niche products have to hibernate for a while.

I've no doubt we will see left handed instruments from them again, in the future. But it makes no sense to have them as a permanent fixture on the production line - which inevitably means that left handed musicians don't have the freedom of choice that guitarists do, to be able to walk in to any store, and try out a variety of instruments, in different colours.

It would be great if EBMM could offer the occasional BFR type run on left handed instruments, but I just don't think the left handed market is large enough, or buoyant enough, to have adequate numbers of lefties be able to react, and commit to a purchase within a limited timeframe.

I think more realistic, if EBMM were to announce :

"In 2020 we're going to be retooling, and making a run of 400 left handed SR4's, 200 SR5's, 50 Cutlasses, 50 Caprices, 50 SR Classics, and 20 Bongos.
We're going to be monitoring the situation closely with our dealers, and in 2025 we'll repeat the run, but at half the number of instruments, and review every 5 years."

Even then, I think it's potentially an exercise in good will, rather than a business investment, given the low (albeit passionate) demand, and high cost of retooling part of the production line).

 

[mikeswals]

I'm not a fan of these "upgrades". IMO, they have "Sterling-ized" the Stingray by making it lighter and sleeker...
I fell in love with the '90's 3-band Ray's.

Whats' the difference now? THE original StingRay was a slab body, 2eq, large string thru bridge. Anything apart from that is "changed".
EBMM changed to a contoured body in '84.
EBMM came out with a changed 3eq preamp as standard in '87, (2eq optional only on single H Rays, and 2eq not avail on leftys).
EBMM changed to a smaller bridge by '96.

So, these new changes are done on things that were were already changed....

 

[Christcr]

We live in an age of CNC. Mirror image at flick of switch. There is no excuse to not have lefty gear available and not whack us with a ridiculous upcharge a la Gibson.

This is a great point, and not only for left-handed basses, but for models that don't sell at quite the volume as well. At one time it really WAS a huge deal to produce a slightly different body shape, pickup route, left-handed neck/body, because it involved total retooling, new templates, retraining workers, etc.

That is NOT the case now. A change to a CNC router is a couple of lines of code or feed from a drafting/modeling program that any competent programmer could do in minutes. So when I hear of a company stating that sales this or that because of this or that, I know it is an old argument that old men in boardrooms are holding over from years gone by. The actual shaping and routing change is almost trivial. The finish and fitting is no different. Now as far as a HARDWARE spec change, that it a bigger issue.

But the argument that a fretless can't be made because we only sold twenty last year and it's way too big of a change on the production line is lame. There really isn't any big difference in what the production crew does. Not having it as at least an option is really just spite, in my opinion. As someone else said, it's not that "we can't do it because it's way too big a hassle," but that "we won't do it because we will only produce models that sell like hotcakes." I understand that these companies are in business to make money, but it is no huge cost to them to at least OFFER something like a fretless or lefty on special order. The CNC machine doesn't care one way or the other and is very adaptable. I do architectural drafting, and if someone wants a window where no window appears on the model/plans, it's a TRIVIAL change. It wasn't at one time (it was a hell of a lot of work), but now it's so easy that it's almost a joke. And that the change may not sell to anyone else ever really makes no difference--push of a mouse button removes it. And the construction crews do not care one way or the other.

 

[Wood and Wire]

This is a great point, and not only for left-handed basses, but for models that don't sell at quite the volume as well. At one time it really WAS a huge deal to produce a slightly different body shape, pickup route, left-handed neck/body, because it involved total retooling, new templates, retraining workers, etc.

That is NOT the case now. A change to a CNC router is a couple of lines of code or feed from a drafting/modeling program that any competent programmer could do in minutes. So when I hear of a company stating that sales this or that because of this or that, I know it is an old argument that old men in boardrooms are holding over from years gone by. The actual shaping and routing change is almost trivial. The finish and fitting is no different. Now as far as a HARDWARE spec change, that it a bigger issue.

But the argument that a fretless can't be made because we only sold twenty last year and it's way too big of a change on the production line is lame. There really isn't any big difference in what the production crew does. Not having it as at least an option is really just spite, in my opinion. As someone else said, it's not that "we can't do it because it's way too big a hassle," but that "we won't do it because we will only produce models that sell like hotcakes." I understand that these companies are in business to make money, but it is no huge cost to them to at least OFFER something like a fretless or lefty on special order. The CNC machine doesn't care one way or the other and is very adaptable. I do architectural drafting, and if someone wants a window where no window appears on the model/plans, it's a TRIVIAL change. It wasn't at one time (it was a hell of a lot of work), but now it's so easy that it's almost a joke. And that the change may not sell to anyone else ever really makes no difference--push of a mouse button removes it. And the construction crews do not care one way or the other.

But you do understand that adding that extra window to the plan, incurs all sorts of additional work, and costs, and potential for mishap (at several stages throughout the chain) when it comes to turning those plans in to a building?

 

[Christcr]

But you do understand that adding that extra window to the plan, incurs all sorts of additional work, and costs, and potential for mishap (at several stages throughout the chain) when it comes to turning those plans in to a building?

It definitely creates a difference in what each "link of the chain" has to do, but it's infinitely easier all the way around than it was years ago. With something like manufacturing a bass (or pretty much manufacturing anything these days that is largely automated) it is even closer to a push-button process. As I said, a CNC machine doesn't care. It just does what a few lines of code and points in a database tell it to do. The guys that spray, finish, assemble, adjust, etc, the guitar won't see any huge difference in their routine, either.

As with most everything else, maximizing profit is the bottom line. I do understand that. But with today's technology, I'm just saying it is nowhere near the "hassle" it used to be to do small runs and minor variations. Yes, from the accountant's office, things are going to go toward whatever it is that maximizes profit. But, making a few left-handed basses or spraying some off-colors isn't going to break the bank (even Fender is willing to do this to an extent with their FSR lines of basses and guitars). And it definitely "strokes" the potential customer pool, as dozens of small-bass-manufacturers-who-have-turned-into-major-manufacturers have realized.

 

[eastcoasteddie]

But you do understand that adding that extra window to the plan, incurs all sorts of additional work, and costs, and potential for mishap (at several stages throughout the chain) when it comes to turning those plans in to a building?

You'd figure that once an extra window is approved by the Architect, Structural, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineers on the project, it'll take a gang of guys about 4 hours to punch a hole through the wall and install a window. Cost of one window would be negligible in comparison to the cost of a building. I've seen a job where 200 windows somehow showed up with incorrect specs. They all went into the trash and then they ordered right ones. Cost got swollowed up by the project one way or another.

 

[drTSTingray]

Too bad about the lefties - hopefully they'll be reintroduced at some time in the future. However it seems the Sterling 4H is still available as a lefty and both the Sterling and Bongo are available as Fretless.

It's a bummer not more variants are available but it's good news EBMM have refreshed the Stingray whilst the Classic line is available for those who want the original features.

Back in the early 00s I did a lot of trawls of bass guitar shops trying out all sorts of makes of 5 strings - having no problem finding lots of choice in stock - at that time shops used to stick a few lefties. These days you'd be hard pressed to fond any lefties, in some shops precious few basses, and in many places walls of largely Fenders and Gibson guitars only. And look at the parlous state of those company's finances.

I'm guessing there are multi factors in play here not least the way those companies do business with dealers, the volume of Internet sales, various macro economic factors - I think we should be thankful companies like EBMM are investing in new product at all - I love the new look Stingrays and will be ordering one ASAP!!

 

[Wood and Wire]

I've seen a job where 200 windows somehow showed up with incorrect specs. They all went into the trash and then they ordered right ones. Cost got swollowed up by the project one way or another.

Sure, but in relative terms, that cost couldn't really be computed in a $2000 bass guitar (a fraction of the cost of 1 screw, on 1 machine head).

If on the other hand, you were to just flip North & South on the architectural plans, after construction on every other building in the housing estate is variously well under way, or complete - you have some serious ramifications to consider for the entire housing estate.

And of course not every instrument manufacturer is extensively using CNC throughout their manufacturing process.

Take EBMM : it would still mean that their craftsmen, who have spent decades refining routines by hand, are suddenly having to make the Stingray pre-amp back to front, source and fit back to front machine heads, apply dot markers along the top of the neck back to front, and upside down, apply headstock decals back to front, manufacture and fit nuts back to front, and upside down, assemble the two halves of the body back to front, and upside down, and set up the instruments back to front - all whilst impacting the production commitments of right handed instruments.

It's doable, but there's so much potential for time consuming screw-ups, in addition to the slower rate of production (which incurs costs of it's own), the loss of profits incurred by reduced output of right handed instruments, and the fact that it could be a long time before they actually sell such niche instruments.

I wish it were different, but it's tougher than ever for these companies at the high end of production instruments, to keep doing what they do, at the standard we expect.

And consequently, it's tougher than ever for left handed musicians to get a brand new instrument of that standard.

For the time being, your options are limited to the second hand market, cheap Asian new instruments, and expensive boutique new instruments.

In a few years, we may see 3D printed, synthetic material instruments - and that would be a relatively minor issue to make in left, and right handed options.

 

[Drezy]

FYI,
Got the new SRS in jet black and here's a short review. The neck feels awesome as they usually due. Looks cool; its a Stingray, right. The re voice pre sounds way better than any other SR I've owned, more bass depth and better highs, IMO.
The only thing I'm not digging is the bridge! Tuners are what ever, they're fine. But this bass would get a 100 percent satisfaction if it had the standard bridge, not the classic, standard. Don't get me wrong, the aluminum bridge works it just doesn't seemed to have as much sustain, or maybe it's all in my head cause I'm so used to seeing a huge bridge. Anyway, still a great bass!

Drezy

 

[pickles]

SRS is so cool. Jamming along with some Rage - boost the bass just a touch, mid flat you get Tim's stingray sound, but a little less electonic sounding. Boost mids 3/4 up and cut highs to taste and it gets you close to his jazz bass sound. I could play this on way more gigs than an OG stingray.