Allow me to vent about internet charts

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Yes most internet tabs are verybwrong. I often wonder if it is not to avoid copyright fines.

In other hand I use the paying app chord tab pro with my phone and it is pretty accurate.

 

[LBS-bass]

What irks me badly, is that when guitarists are not only playing from incorrect charts, but will argue about a chord or note in a song that by ear is obviously wrong.

I once played in a band that was backing up an "artist" that finished well on the "reality show" Rockstar Supernova from a few years back. Top notch singer and great guitar player, but said performer shot laser beams at me during a rehearsal because I was playing some dissonant notes that were indeed in the original recording of the song. Said performer's ears could not separate the notes from guitar tones. Being the "hired gun", I just gave up and played root notes during that section of the tune.

I know basic music theory, and can transpose to accommodate capos, but I always rely on my ears in the end.

Oh lord. Many years ago I got into a heated argument with a keyboard player over the stupid horn swells in Martha and the Vandellas "Dancing in the Street." There's a descending cadence that he just wasn't hearing or playing correctly that happens in the chorus where the lyrics are "everywhere around the world." I don't remember what the chords were now, I'd have to sit down and play them, but the horns descend there in a particular way and he was just. not. getting. it. Nor was he hearing it, and he insisted that he was right and I was wrong. We played it on the stereo and, to me, it was right there, all big in my ears, plain as day. Ugh. We fought over this pretty stridently. I'm like, "how do you not hear that?" I finally just got fed up and told him to play it anyway, even if he thinks it's wrong. Which he did.

I think that ranks as one of the ugliest band fights I was ever involved in. It must have been more than 30 years ago. That guy was a good player with a pretty good ear and to this day I have no idea why he couldn't hear that horn part. I can't hear or play that song without thinking of that.

 

[jeff62]

Many similar frustrations here but what I don’t get is the outrage over A# vs Bb. It’s the same chord (and correct outcome for the music) and if it sounds right it’s not worth creating an issue over semantics.

 

[Tazziedevil]

There are good charts around on the internet. The ones you describe are definitely not!

iRealPro generally has good changes, but those may also not be exactly what's played on any given recording or gig. They tend to be from the published music (without melodies). So it's a good starting point when someone calls an obscure Brazilian tune, or I have to quick remember one particular change in a Stevie Wonder tune.

The A# in your case sounds like a lame attempt to get the guitarist to play an inversion.

I use iRealpro all the time. I would never use the changes in a band setting, but to pull up changes from an old/obscure song you can't find with (albeit cheesy) backing music? Worth every cent!

 

[LBS-bass]

I use iRealpro all the time. I would never use the changes in a band setting, but to pull up changes from an old/obscure song you can't find with (albeit cheesy) backing music? Worth every cent!

I use the iRealPro charts as well and I think the original comments are correct. You will get good charts but they're mainly taken from the original published versions. Which can be great arrangements, but not always the arrangements other players are familiar with.

I've finally convinced the guitarist who I'm playing standards with to trust these charts and work with me on them. He initially wanted to dumb some things down but after working with them he's seeing the beauty in some of these songs as they were originally composed. I love that. I do occasionally come across something in those charts that sounds really off to me, but not often.

 

[Mushroo]

Many similar frustrations here but what I don’t get is the outrage over A# vs Bb. It’s the same chord (and correct outcome for the music) and if it sounds right it’s not worth creating an issue over semantics.

Couple of reasons just off the top of my head:

1. Knowing your scales and key signatures is basic Music 101 stuff. I wouldn't say I would be "outraged" but if I show up for an audition and the bandleader thinks there's an A# in the key of D Minor, then I'm like, "Okay, what other vital information have they not bothered to learn?"
2. A#Maj has that pesky Cx (C double sharp) which is certainly "allowed" but can be confusing or jarring when encountered out of context. Much simpler to just write BbMaj (and you don't even need an accidental for Bb since it is already in the key signature).

But you're right, if someone is an "ear player" and doesn't know music theory terminology, I'm totally cool with that, as long as they learn the song correctly.

 

[retslock]

I never go there. In most bands I’ve been in I’ve always been the guy who writes the charts by ear from a recording. It was never any other way. I have seen some of the charts you describe and some were written incorrectly. I prefer to trust my own ear.

 

[lermgalieu]

I view any tabs, and some charts, as mere guides to get me in the rough area of the song. Then I ignore them and listen to the recording.

 

[retslock]

The first chord of the song is not always a reliable indicator of the song’s key - the last chord is more reliable but not always correct either. Modern music modulates all over the place and sometimes finding the key centre is not straightforward but the ear is still the best bet for me.

 

[Samatza]

Keyboards can easily transpose via a button, guitars can easily transpose via a capo, we have to learn to transpose by shifting pitch or position.

This keyboard transpose is one of my pet hates. We had many instances of the keys player doing this, forgetting it on and then the next song was a total train wreck. They give you that look like it's you, four bars later they remember and frantically try and turn off the "transpose" button. Come on, if you play keys learn to transpose without the button man, what if you have to play a piano?

 

[Samatza]

It's not always practical to notate your bass lines however if you have time it's a great way to remember the tune. If find if I write it out I kind of memorise it then if we don't play that tune for six months and someone calls it I have the chart to follow.

Right now I'm trying to make more time to notate music, just to sharpen up my skill a bit because if you don't use it you get out of shape.

 

[Tazziedevil]

I use the iRealPro charts as well and I think the original comments are correct. You will get good charts but they're mainly taken from the original published versions. Which can be great arrangements, but not always the arrangements other players are familiar with.

I've finally convinced the guitarist who I'm playing standards with to trust these charts and work with me on them. He initially wanted to dumb some things down but after working with them he's seeing the beauty in some of these songs as they were originally composed. I love that. I do occasionally come across something in those charts that sounds really off to me, but not often.

Yeah, all that its true. Just like anything else it also depends on the person transcribing them, but I've come fewer outright wrong charts on iRealPro.

 

[okcrum]

Many similar frustrations here but what I don’t get is the outrage over A# vs Bb. It’s the same chord (and correct outcome for the music) and if it sounds right it’s not worth creating an issue over semantics.

It's not the A#, it's the A# in this case. I've got charts with that sort of notation on them, but it's not A#min9 because the composer is writing for folks who don't play or read much. It's A#min9 because it fits the tune, and the key is E major. The semantics get silly when you consider the enharmonic equivalernt scale to 4 sharps is 8 flats - which is (wait for it):



F flat major

 

[2112]

Some people care to get it right some don't. When my band is working up new tunes, it's not uncommon for us to have a few discrepancies. We just talk about it and agree on what sounds best. No need for drama about it - talk it out and move on.

And yes, I will generally start by grabbing charts off the internet - but I always vet and correct them before they leave the house, and in that process, I've often already bagged the song at a good enough to play level.

While it can be frustrating, communication with less educated players can occur. Just because I was well trained in music theory, doesn't mean everyone is and I really don't expect much theory comprehension in my end of the pool. I don't get worked up about "sharps in a flat key" kind of stuff - as long as my Bb fits with your A# it just doesn't really matter to the ear. Most non-horn bands members can't even read music let alone understand key signatures or circle of fifths. Most non-horn bands know to put their finger on a certain fret at a certain time. Sometimes...

Life's too short to worry about that stuff. Find a common ground method of communicating or go find musicians that are at a level that makes you happy.

Theory is helpful if you know how to use it, but can be quite cumbersome if you don't

So much this.

Really my only complaint about charts and tabs is that bass players in particular try to incorporate so much formalism into their tab that it ends up being 20 pages long for one song. It's tab fcol... it's meant to be brief lolol. While I'm vetting an online tab and learning it, I "compactify" the tab down so it fits onto a single screen. I also add a bunch of detail because I like to get it right.

 

[oren]

What’s the quickest way to get a guitarist to turn down?
Give them a chart!

(cue rimshot)

 

[murph7489]

F flat major

F flat major..lololol...funniest thing in this thread...
Tonight at band practice there is a section in the song power of love the bridge..and the bass note is G#. The keyboard player kept saying Ab...I said its not Ab, its G# ha ha ha...its written in C major so..ya know I prefer the sharp version...

 

[StatesideRambler]

I’ve been playing some weekends with some “long time” guitar players who like to play jazz standards but who are a regal pain in the tuckus WRT playing in native keys that happen to be horn keys. They want them transposed to “guitar keys.” The only saving grace is iReal Pro on our tablets ... provided we’re all looking at the same arrangements. {sigh}

 

[mcnach]

Who else here has played with guitarists who rely on internet charts?

I'm talking about the people who never, ever play along with a recording, but follow the charts that are usually lyrics with chords over them. The chords are often incorrect, and these charts also give you no indication of the actual timing of them.

And I love the charts that say "Key of G. Capo on 6th fret." Or "Key of E. Tune down." What ^&%$# key is it?? I like to tell guitar players, "Pretend I'm a piano player, and tell me what key you want to play it in." They usually still have no idea.

Also, I recently saw a chart for a song in D minor which featured an A# chord. I kept telling the guy I was working with that while they sound the same, it's really a Bb chord, FYI. Didn't matter to him... it said it right there in black and white on his chart!!

As an old-timer, I've always transcribed my own charts from recordings. I mentioned this to one band mate, and she said, "Wow! That's impressive!"
I tell you, these things are the scourge of all life on earth.
P.S. Get off my lawn, you kids!

I have recently joined a new start up band. Well, it's new but not new. My second band for the past 3 years, playing a mix of ska/reggae originals/covers split up due to disagreements between two members. From the ashes of that band, two new bands are forming and I am in both. Anyway, one of them is going to be a tribute to a well known reggae band. Four members of the old band, plus a new guitar/singer, a new key/singer and a percusionist (still looking for trombone). The new main vocalist + guitar comes with these sheets he clearly printed off the net. Which is fine... but there are so many errors!

I get it, it's a quick way to have the song mapped out in front of you, but surely when you listen to it you realise it's wrong. Like that horrible G major you're playing, which is clearly a G minor... Or that C# that comes in for the verses over two bars while you play Cm and C#...
And when I point it out, I am met with sceptical looks "are you sure?".
Yes I am sure, I listened to the damn song!!!

I also downloaded chord sheets for those songs but got a bit tired correcting them and ended up memorising them by the time I was done

 

[LowRick]

I'm more of less a musical illiterate. I'm Starting to know much of the theory, but not yet well enough to actually use it during playing.

I do write ( in stages or chords) and I write it so that I know what to do. If people ( or myself) want to try something, I'll know how to do it and why it makes sense or not.
So I play along the songs we're rehearsing at home and know how to write that down for myself. Whether I use a sharp or a flat for anything, is not a worry to anyone but myself. And I don't really care how the church lord-mucisians figured it out way back when.

Recently a sax player refused our invitation to play with us ("Long As I Can See The Light solo) because she was classically schooled and thought blues people do nothing but cacophonously improvise. That sort of snobism gets absolutely no grain of respect from me.

If someone doesn't know, tell him or her about it. If they don't listen or argue, maybe explain it better.
Granted, some people don't want to learn, but even that's usually because they don't think they can overcome the huge mountain that is music theory.

 

[JoeWPgh]

My peeve are the internet charts without bars indicated. There have been a couple that folks in our band have brought in, where I sat my bass down and refused to play, until they came up with charts with the bars indicated.