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Almost got robbed...

#26
mb1 said:
In Oklahoma, does the law permit you to defend property with deadly force?
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Don't have the law directly in front of me. If I remember correctly you can only use deadly force when you have a reasonable fear of physical harm to either yourself or others. That's me paraphrasing from memory.

IOW if someone breaks into your house you can't shoot them in the back if they are running away.
 
#27
Poop-Loops said:
If you think that's not a lot of time, you are sorely mistaken. I can run up to you and stab you in that time.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm very familiar with Mr. Tueller's drill.

Poop-Loops said:
I'm not trying to be an anti-gun hippy or whatever the polar opposite of "gun owning red-neck" is supposed to be, just saying that just because you have a gun doesn't make you invincible. Be careful.
Click to expand...

Never said it did but never hurts to be reminded I guess.

bc
 
#28
bassfacekevin said:
I've never fully understood the whole "dog as a protector" thing. Admittedly, I've never been attacked by a fully-trained police dog, but back in my punk-skateboarding days, I was attacked by a pit-bull, a german shepard, some white, weird japanese dog attack-dog (that guy was MEAN) and some mutt. I've never had much trouble changing their minds about going after me.

~K
Click to expand...




They're police dogs, yes, but I wouldn't want to get in the way of one of these. :eek:
 
#29
21 feet, 1.5 seconds
Anything farther than that, and that may be murder if all they are doing is kicking in your door. Of course, jurisdiction is very important. For example, in Berkely or Santa Cruz, you'd be charged for sure. In other places, you'd be given a medal.
But still, the 21'/1.5sec rule usually applies for shooting.
Don't do it! (unless life is in danger)

It takes a competent person 1.5 seconds to draw, prepare and present the weapon and fire. A motivated person can cover 21 feet in that time - believe it! That's where the rule comes from.

Edit: Also, unless you are very well trained, hitting anything with a handgun under deress is hard to impossible. I don't presume to know your skill, but shooting at somebody is a lot harder than shooting at paper - even if they are in your house. So, get to know your house well, and think about it.
Here's some more food for thought. IF, even IF it is a CLEAN SHOOT, you will still have to following consequences:
$15k-25k in legal fees if you are CHARGED and have to defend yourself in court
every scumbag has a mom and dad and they will sue you
You may lose:
wife - just because
friends - you're not the guy they knew
job - just because - they will look at you and treat you differently
You may end up in counseling
You may end up on meds
In all liklihood, you will be at least arrested and spend some jail time while things are being sorted
You may suffer from sexual problems (mental issues)
You'll likely lose rights to own a gun (if you have to plea)

I'm sure there are more things to consider. Bottom line, unless your life is in danger, stuff is just stuff. Learn where 21' is and what constitutes a threat. Besides the obvious, there is also the subjective. For example, if I am 6'4" and 300 pounds, and a 150 pound punk with a rock or something like a stick or something attacks me, I may not be justified to shoot. I am a gun owner and advocate of gun rights. I'm just trying to be sure that anyone who reads this and may have an attitude of "Man, if they step one foot in MY house, I'm gonna blow 'em away" thinks long, and thinks hard.
The stuff I say above is going to happen for a CLEAN shoot. Just think it is NOT clean, or if it is questionable.

Cheers!
 
#30
Spector_Ray said:
If an intruder's in your house, you don't have to think before shooting.
Click to expand...

That is about the most irresponsible thing I think you can say. Think about it! You had better darn well think about it. You shoot a drunk guy who walks into the wrong house, and you're done for - almost regardless of jurisdiction. Even in a clean shoot, you darn well better have thought about it or you'll lose your @$$ against ANY motivated DA or 1st year civil attourney.
I'm sure you did not mean it to sound like that.
 
#31
Poop-Loops said:
If you think that's not a lot of time, you are sorely mistaken. I can run up to you and stab you in that time.

I'm not trying to be an anti-gun hippy or whatever the polar opposite of "gun owning red-neck" is supposed to be, just saying that just because you have a gun doesn't make you invincible. Be careful.
Click to expand...

I can stab you AND your family in that time! 2.5 seconds is a very long time.
 
#34
Enchanter_Tim said:
21 feet, 1.5 seconds
Anything farther than that, and that may be murder if all they are doing is kicking in your door. Of course, jurisdiction is very important. For example, in Berkely or Santa Cruz, you'd be charged for sure. In other places, you'd be given a medal.
But still, the 21'/1.5sec rule usually applies for shooting.
Don't do it! (unless life is in danger)

It takes a competent person 1.5 seconds to draw, prepare and present the weapon and fire. A motivated person can cover 21 feet in that time - believe it! That's where the rule comes from.

Edit: Also, unless you are very well trained, hitting anything with a handgun under deress is hard to impossible. I don't presume to know your skill, but shooting at somebody is a lot harder than shooting at paper - even if they are in your house. So, get to know your house well, and think about it.
Here's some more food for thought. IF, even IF it is a CLEAN SHOOT, you will still have to following consequences:
$15k-25k in legal fees if you are CHARGED and have to defend yourself in court
every scumbag has a mom and dad and they will sue you
You may lose:
wife - just because
friends - you're not the guy they knew
job - just because - they will look at you and treat you differently
You may end up in counseling
You may end up on meds
In all liklihood, you will be at least arrested and spend some jail time while things are being sorted
You may suffer from sexual problems (mental issues)
You'll likely lose rights to own a gun (if you have to plea)

I'm sure there are more things to consider. Bottom line, unless your life is in danger, stuff is just stuff. Learn where 21' is and what constitutes a threat. Besides the obvious, there is also the subjective. For example, if I am 6'4" and 300 pounds, and a 150 pound punk with a rock or something like a stick or something attacks me, I may not be justified to shoot. I am a gun owner and advocate of gun rights. I'm just trying to be sure that anyone who reads this and may have an attitude of "Man, if they step one foot in MY house, I'm gonna blow 'em away" thinks long, and thinks hard.
The stuff I say above is going to happen for a CLEAN shoot. Just think it is NOT clean, or if it is questionable.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

A little doom and gloom there. Sexual problems? :eyebrow: I understand your point that firing a weapon in self defense isn't something to be done lightly. Maybe the 21ft rule is what is used in CA, but here in OK the law says that you must feel that your person is in physical jeopardy. I trust my own judgement more than any rule of thumb.
 
#36
Kael said:
A little doom and gloom there. Sexual problems? :eyebrow: I understand your point that firing a weapon in self defense isn't something to be done lightly. Maybe the 21ft rule is what is used in CA, but here in OK the law says that you must feel that your person is in physical jeopardy. I trust my own judgement more than any rule of thumb.
Click to expand...

Hey, no worries. You need to make your own decision. It is your judgement afterall. My point is that, even if it is a clean shoot, all that stuff above will happen. Even if the DA says "good job geting rid of the scum", the parents or siblings will likely sue you civilly - and the burden of proof is substantially less for civil suits. Even if you WIN that civil suit, that's gonna set you back probably around $20,000.
I am a gun owner, and I believe the old addage of "better tried by twelve than carried by six" - believe me, I believe that very firmly.
I am really trying to make people think about this stuff now - while they are reading this - especially since I've seen a few "I'd blow 'em away" responses. It's not that easy.
Also, I doubt that even in Oklahoma the law is as simple as "fear of physical harm". That means that I can threaten you with a little stick or a belt and you could use lethal force? Maybe, I don't know OK law. Even if it is permitted, I think that would be a lot over-the top.
Anyhow, hope it doesn't ever happen to you, and I am glad you are safe and didn't lose your stuff!!
Rock on!!
 

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