Almost got robbed...

[Stanley Design]

My solution for situations like these is to have nothing worthy of being stolen in the first place. The intruders will simply become bored and leave.

I hate being poor.

Doesn't work up here in Canada, a couple houses down from me had a window smashed and the people went in, took beer and leftover pizza and left.

I'd be sooooooo mad if someone took my booze and pizza AND I had to replace some stupid window. Being poor makes it worse!!

 

[Poop-Loops]

You have windows!?

I just use Saran Wrap™.

 

[Brad Maestas]

About four years ago, when I lived in Lawrence, KS, someone broke into my house while I was at a gig. I got home and found that they had gained entrance through a side door in the garage. Whoever it was made off with my Nikon F4E + lenses and my Glock 29. I had just bought the Glock and it was in my night stand with two loaded clips. All my other guns were locked up elsewhere and thankfully the thieves never got that far. My camera rig was the real bummer because I'd sorta grown up with it and had developed my photographic skills with it.

The police never recovered my stuff but there will always be one thing that I'll never forget about that experience. I was glad that I didn't come home while they were there because I just might've gotten shot with my own gun! The whole thing was enough to get me to sell my other firearms and be happy that no one was hurt. The camera and the gun were just material possessions that, no matter how much sentimental value had been attached to them, didn't matter that much to me in the long run.

I ended up moving to NY shortly after the robbery and I since I had enough crap to move up there, including my double bass, drumset and stereo, I was glad to be rid of the firearms. Presently I live in an area of Brooklyn that can be pretty dangerous and I feel that there are enough guns around here without me adding to the list. Coming from a former concealed-carry license holder, I actually feel more safe now WITHOUT a gun than with one.

 

[Foamy]

...... Presently I live in an area of Brooklyn that can be pretty dangerous and I feel that there are enough guns around here without me adding to the list. Coming from a former concealed-carry license holder, I actually feel more safe now WITHOUT a gun than with one.

Bummer about the Nikon. I used to sell those SLR's years ago and I still own a ton of Nikon.
I'm a bit puzzled, however, by your closing sentence that you feel safer (in a "pretty dangerous" area of Brooklyn) without a gun. I would say that just about anyone would feel safer with one.

This almost sounds like an anti-gun person posing as a victim to push an agenda. But, since we're all honest folks here on TB, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The truth is what's important.

I am happy you were not harmed in the original burglary, and I hope you do not become a victim in Brooklyn.

What I am going to say now, you may not like, but it is for the benefit of all, and HONESTLY not just directed at you.

There are a few basic categories of gun owners, including:
Unknowingly incompetent
Knowingly incompetent
Knowingly competent

It sounds to me like you were either unknowingly incompetent or possibly knowingly incompetent. I say that for a couple reasons I get from your original post. It is not uncommon. Most gun owners fall into at least the first category - they buy a gun, shoot some targets, and put the thing in a nightstand. They have no clue at all what it is like to have to shoot and kill person; and more importantly, when you cannot do the same. But since they have no clue, they are unknowingly incompetent.

The next group are the folks that are smarter than that, but never take a real 2-4 day defensive handgun course or at least even try and talk to someone (like a police officer or sherrif's deputy) about do's and dont's. I think that's even less responsible because one knows he/she is incompetent and fails to take corrective measures.

The third category I mention is the guy who realizes how serious it is to shoot somebody, and takes proper training to become educated. This is not merely shooting practice. This includes legal education, psychological training, and weaons training.
The thingies that carry the cartridges in a hangun are called magazines, not clips. And it is highly unlikely that some idiot stealing a camera could hit you with a handgun at more than 15 feet away (but obviously there is nothing worth that risk).


P.S. At this time, anyone reading this article who may have been unknowingly incompetent has now been promoted to knowingly incompetent.
And pleeeaseeee....do not take this personally!!! Most people who own handguns are minimally unknowingly incompetent - and THAT is a bad thing!

 

[Toasted]

Invalid Link Removed

I was banned from having one of those as a child by my mother. Its no wonder that I'm so maligned now I'm in my 20s, is it?

 

[ElMon]

As someone WHO ACTUALLY has a concealed carriers liscense in OK, I'll say it was a good move. I've always been a good shot, and I'd like to see somebody get a drop on me at 21feet with an HK .45 with double action on the first shot.

First off, that assumes that the knife is drawn and ready to do damage at 21feet, and also that the shooter will simply stand there and draw. I was told a story by the cop that taught our class about how a guy was at knifepoint and tried to run before drawing.
The scumbag started to chase him, which gave the shooter time to draw, turn and fire 3shots into the scums chest. Oh, and on that as well, there are some dudes here in OKC that I've hung with at the range who you do NOT want to get in front of within 30yards.
DEADLY accurate.

Regarding OK's breaking and entering law, I would say that the possibility of gettin mowed down by a homeowner is a much better deterrent than a 'slap on the wrist' justice system. If you don't like that, move out west with the other 'granola-chewin hippies'.


Kael, I say go ahead with it, and go to H&H gunrange as well. Great folks!

 

[ebe9]

I live in a counrty where crime unfortunately is rather prevalent, however if you are alert and cautios you can avoid a lot of the crap.

My stand point on the whole gun issue in the TS situation would be the following:

If I am at home and you attempt/do break into my house I wil not hesitate to defend myself and I will make sure that said intruder is put down permanently.

I would rather be explaining my self defence story to the police than becoming another statistic.

As for concealment laws, Iam not sure on the regulations on this side, but my feeling there is that I would want a person applying for one to undergo training an obtain some sort of certification before being allowed to carry a firearm in public.

 

[Foamy]

As someone WHO ACTUALLY has a concealed carriers liscense in OK, I'll say it was a good move. I've always been a good shot, and I'd like to see somebody get a drop on me at 21feet with an HK .45 with double action on the first shot.

First off, that assumes that the knife is drawn and ready to do damage at 21feet, and also that the shooter will simply stand there and draw. I was told a story by the cop that taught our class about how a guy was at knifepoint and tried to run before drawing.
The scumbag started to chase him, which gave the shooter time to draw, turn and fire 3shots into the scums chest. Oh, and on that as well, there are some dudes here in OKC that I've hung with at the range who you do NOT want to get in front of within 30yards.
DEADLY accurate.

Regarding OK's breaking and entering law, I would say that the possibility of gettin mowed down by a homeowner is a much better deterrent than a 'slap on the wrist' justice system. If you don't like that, move out west with the other 'granola-chewin hippies'.


Kael, I say go ahead with it, and go to H&H gunrange as well. Great folks!

You are obviously in the "knowingly competent" category, and I second everything you say. As another H&K USP 45 owner, I also applaud your selection.

Some of what I've said above may possibly appear anti-gun, but believe me, I am not. However, I am a strong advocate of the position that people who don't learn how to use it properly, and the legal and moral ramifications should not own one.

And, of course you know, the 21' foot rule is a general rule. Of course motivated bad guys can do more damage, and less motivated bad guys couldn't cover 21' in a day. And, competent shooters can put two or three into center mass in less than 1.5 seconds. It is a generality that is somewhat universally accepted. It is a starting place - and if you do shoot someone and your are sued (which you will be), every single facet of that shooting will be reexamined with regards to the bad guy's motivation and your skills. It might not be pretty if you exceed these general rules.

That said, I repeat, I agree 1000% that explaining my fear to the police and a jury is better than the alternative.

My point in the whole thing is to be aware of what WILL happen to you in a CLEAN SHOOT. You will be at least sued, and that'll cost you probably around $20,000 give or take. But you'll be alive!

Anyhow, I think we're on the same side here, right?

Cheers!!

 

[Foamy]

I live in a counrty where crime unfortunately is rather prevalent, however if you are alert and cautios you can avoid a lot of the crap.

My stand point on the whole gun issue in the TS situation would be the following:

If I am at home and you attempt/do break into my house I wil not hesitate to defend myself and I will make sure that said intruder is put down permanently.

I would rather be explaining my self defence story to the police than becoming another statistic.

As for concealment laws, Iam not sure on the regulations on this side, but my feeling there is that I would want a person applying for one to undergo training an obtain some sort of certification before being allowed to carry a firearm in public.

If you kill someone for attempting to break into your house, that is murder, and even here in California, most counties would have you in jail for murder. And to be honest, killing someone for breaking your door is...could be a bit much.

But the situation would dictate the appropriate actions.

In Santa Cruz, a homeowner caught an intruder and handcuffed him to the fence for the police to arrive. That homeowner was charged with kidnapping!!! I don't think he was convicted, but still, it cost him thousands of dollars defending himself.

I think that is pathetic. But I am mentioning it so that anyone reading this thread is at least aware.

Getting a CCW in California is done on a county basis. Most counties do require you to have some training. Some counties don't issue them at all. So it's real hit or miss. But nonetheless, if you're going to carry the gun, you'd better know everything about it, and what happens after you make the decision to shoot.

Cheers!

 

[Intune]

If you kill someone for attempting to break into your house, that is murder, and even here in California, most counties would have you in jail for murder. And to be honest, killing someone for breaking your door is...could be a bit much.

But the situation would dictate the appropriate actions.

In Santa Cruz, a homeowner caught an intruder and handcuffed him to the fence for the police to arrive. That homeowner was charged with kidnapping!!! I don't think he was convicted, but still, it cost him thousands of dollars defending himself.

I think that is pathetic. But I am mentioning it so that anyone reading this thread is at least aware.

Getting a CCW in California is done on a county basis. Most counties do require you to have some training. Some counties don't issue them at all. So it's real hit or miss. But nonetheless, if you're going to carry the gun, you'd better know everything about it, and what happens after you make the decision to shoot.

Cheers!

Attempting to break into your house and breaking in are two different situations. Some states have a "duty to retreat" clause, even within your own home. Go figure. Check out TN. "A" covers anytime, "B" is home. TN statute: 39-11-611. Self-defense. - (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. There is no duty to retreat before a person threatens or uses force.

(b) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within their own residence is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury to self, family or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

 

[Vorago]

Invalid Link Removed

I was banned from having one of those as a child by my mother. Its no wonder that I'm so maligned now I'm in my 20s, is it?

You better watch out with those things, the plastic might break and cut in your hand (and cause emo-ness)

 

[KeithBMI]

Nope. Sorry. It was an emo kid. He threw the CD in the trash bin, as soon as he realized that he couldn't use it to cut himself.

That sounds more likely.

 

[Brad Maestas]

This almost sounds like an anti-gun person posing as a victim to push an agenda. But, since we're all honest folks here on TB, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The truth is what's important.

If you're giving me the benefit of the doubt, why not give me the option of being knowingly competent? Why make me out to be a fool who doesn't know what a magazine is? You may have said not to take anything personally but it's kind of hard not to. I think you read too much into my post.

Believe me, I don't have some lame agenda. I have better things to do than to push anti-gun sentiment on this forum, let alone anywhere else for that matter. I said that last part because, having owned (and loved!) some great handguns like the HK .45 and the Ruger .480, having taken defensive weapons training courses, having obtained a concealed-carry permit in Kansas and having participated in tournaments and armorer's courses, I eventually decided that guns were no longer gonna be such a big part of my life. It's that simple. I was just sharing my own personal experience, not trying to dissuade anyone from owning them or feeling passionate about them. I was happy to spend that money on music gear instead. My location is secondary. I made that decision long before I ever moved here. I was just trying to illustrate my point about living in a less-than-ideal location and not feeling like you have to carry around a gun just to feel safe.

 

[bassjamn]

I've been thinking of getting a gun for home defense too. There seems to be a rise of burglary around my neighborhood as well.
I am in a anti-gun hotspot though, probably will be difficult to get a license

 

[guy n. cognito]

Even in your great state of Washington you are allowed to have a concealed carry permit and carry a *gasp* loaded pistol.



Roughly 2 seconds. Maybe 2.5.

bc

Damn, BC, you must be old and slow! Seriously, I can draw and fire, consistently hitting "combat distance" targets, in times of 1.25 secs. or less. From retention, shooting at targets at contact distance, I slip under the 1 sec mark. This is all documented using various PACT timers at various IDPA competitions and training schools. I am, by no means, the fastest draw in my shooting circles. I have witnessed a number of better-trained shooters pull off aimed shots, from concealment, in slightly less than a second. Granted, it's more of a "flash sight picture" than actual aiming, but the shots never miss their mark.

To the OP: sorry about the break-in. While I applaud any law-abiding citizen for getting a CCW permit, be sure about your motives. Be sure to get ample training and, most importantly, get a strong safe in which to store your firearms when they are not in your possession.

 

[Foamy]

If you're giving me the benefit of the doubt, why not give me the option of being knowingly competent? Why make me out to be a fool who doesn't know what a magazine is? You may have said not to take anything personally but it's kind of hard not to. I think you read too much into my post.

Believe me, I don't have some lame agenda. I have better things to do than to push anti-gun sentiment on this forum, let alone anywhere else for that matter. I said that last part because, having owned (and loved!) some great handguns like the HK .45 and the Ruger .480, having taken defensive weapons training courses, having obtained a concealed-carry permit in Kansas and having participated in tournaments and armorer's courses, I eventually decided that guns were no longer gonna be such a big part of my life. It's that simple. I was just sharing my own personal experience, not trying to dissuade anyone from owning them or feeling passionate about them. I was happy to spend that money on music gear instead. My location is secondary. I made that decision long before I ever moved here. I was just trying to illustrate my point about living in a less-than-ideal location and not feeling like you have to carry around a gun just to feel safe.

Please accept my apology.

I may have read too much into it - I am subject to that as well as anyone else.

I am glad you've taken the courses. And yeah, I know, my saying don't take it personally is a bit hard to do when I am responding to you. OK, fair enough. I am sorry. I truly did not mean or try to make you out to be a fool.

I did, perhaps, read a bit much into the last bit about being safer without guns than with them, and as a gun owner you have to know that that is a very very touchy topic of debate. And I pounced all over it.

I hope, however, that people reading this thread will keep open minds about gun ownership and the responsibilities that come along with owning a gun.

I also hope that I have at least planted some seeds in some people's minds making them think a bit more about the topic.

So, please accept my sincerest apology for my unkind words.

 

[Foamy]

I've been thinking of getting a gun for home defense too. There seems to be a rise of burglary around my neighborhood as well.
I am in a anti-gun hotspot though, probably will be difficult to get a license

I doubt seriously that that recently passed ban will ever pass muster, but it sure could make it a pain in the butt to go out and get something new - but I don't know for sure where it's at at this point.

One thing to consider is something that I can't recall the name for...but....let's say you illegally have a gun in your house, and Mr BadGuy comes in to do you great harm, and you kill him, AND it is a clean shoot....
There is some sort of law about the weighing of the differences of breaking the law, and you would be covered there [kind of like running a red light to get away from someone shooting at you]. I know there is such a thing in California, but for the life of me, I forget what it's called. However, in SF county, you would be at least charged with something major, and when that gets done, Mr BadGuy's mom and pop would want a piece of you civilly. So, you can see that even if you have a clean shoot, you're still screwed.
But you're not dead!!!
And you wake up in San Francisco which is a beatiful place to live regardless of other circumstances.
Cheers!

 

[Toasted]

I can't think of one circumstance having a gun would have make me or my family safer.

 

[bassjamn]

I doubt seriously that that recently passed ban will ever pass muster, but it sure could make it a pain in the butt to go out and get something new - but I don't know for sure where it's at at this point.

One thing to consider is something that I can't recall the name for...but....let's say you illegally have a gun in your house, and Mr BadGuy comes in to do you great harm, and you kill him, AND it is a clean shoot....
There is some sort of law about the weighing of the differences of breaking the law, and you would be covered there [kind of like running a red light to get away from someone shooting at you]. I know there is such a thing in California, but for the life of me, I forget what it's called. However, in SF county, you would be at least charged with something major, and when that gets done, Mr BadGuy's mom and pop would want a piece of you civilly. So, you can see that even if you have a clean shoot, you're still screwed.
But you're not dead!!!
And you wake up in San Francisco which is a beatiful place to live regardless of other circumstances.
Cheers!

Indeed, the laws are very Whacky here. I've not really kept up on how they changed, but i would not doubt what you say is probably true!

 

[guy n. cognito]

I can't think of one circumstance having a gun would have make me or my family safer.

Don't worry, subject. The crown will protect you.