yep and the octave!Throw in a fifth once in while..?
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Am I an "incompetent" bass player?
- Thread starter Broke
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I know of the keyboard bassist.... Because of that insanity, bands I was kb player, I played a lot of one handed stuff depending on song... One money band back in the big club days, we had a bassist and two guitars... I could foxtrot all kinds of stuff putting my left hand on one of the keyboards unless I was playing a different KB part in a non-occupied-by anybody-else range... Kept the clutter subdued. When I played a diff instrument in another band, I would give that kb played looks from hell at times....
If you're in rhythm and have good technique, you're not incompetent. I would say that you could learn some theory and tricks to add more to your bass lines, but I would still take you over someone who plays interesting stuff badly. I often worry that I'm in the latter camp.
@Broke : I read all of your posts here and skimmed others.
I'll suggest 'boxes'. Others will disagree.
@Fielding showed you the circle of 5ths to help you find more 'safe/good' notes. They are great to use between the roots (which you can and / to be safe - usually 'should' play on at least 'the 1' beat - the first strum of the new chord.)
Another way to find the 4th, 5th and octave is by 'playing boxes'.
@Fielding showed you that for:
G (the root or 1)
C (is the 4th)
D (is the 5th)
And that these are safe notes
Another way to find the 4th and 5th is by shapes.
From the root:
The 4th is one string 'up' towards floor), at the same fret
The 5th is one string up,
and 2 frets 'up' towards pickups
The octave is 2 strings up, 2 frets up
In fact, 6 notes are safe for a lot of tunes: same fret, and up 2 frets on the three strings described above
They make a "box" of safe notes.
More/variations....
The 5th is also 1 string down, same fret.
The 4th is also 1 string down, 2 frets back.
The octave is also 2 strings down, 2 frets back.
So you can play the box forwards or backwards.
And... if the lick sounds like it needs a note more bad-a$$ than you can find in the box, or maybe sad/minor:
Try the 3rd: (a Bb for G chords)
1 string up and 2 frets back
Or
same string, 4 frets up
You'll recognize it
And don't be afraid to throw in some open strings. They'll work differently for different roots; you'll get to known 'em.
I'll suggest 'boxes'. Others will disagree.
@Fielding showed you the circle of 5ths to help you find more 'safe/good' notes. They are great to use between the roots (which you can and / to be safe - usually 'should' play on at least 'the 1' beat - the first strum of the new chord.)
Another way to find the 4th, 5th and octave is by 'playing boxes'.
@Fielding showed you that for:
G (the root or 1)
C (is the 4th)
D (is the 5th)
And that these are safe notes
Another way to find the 4th and 5th is by shapes.
From the root:
The 4th is one string 'up' towards floor), at the same fret
The 5th is one string up,
and 2 frets 'up' towards pickups
The octave is 2 strings up, 2 frets up
In fact, 6 notes are safe for a lot of tunes: same fret, and up 2 frets on the three strings described above
They make a "box" of safe notes.
More/variations....
The 5th is also 1 string down, same fret.
The 4th is also 1 string down, 2 frets back.
The octave is also 2 strings down, 2 frets back.
So you can play the box forwards or backwards.
And... if the lick sounds like it needs a note more bad-a$$ than you can find in the box, or maybe sad/minor:
Try the 3rd: (a Bb for G chords)
1 string up and 2 frets back
Or
same string, 4 frets up
You'll recognize it
And don't be afraid to throw in some open strings. They'll work differently for different roots; you'll get to known 'em.
Study. Get out of your comfort zone. Listen to new things.
You already have an opinion about your competency. If you're cool with it, no problem. If you're not, get to work.
There's never been a better time to learn new things. So much great information out there to guide you.
If that's the case I've been incompetent for the last 40 years...
Don't become discouraged. The language of music theory seems to be needlessly confusing. For example, the ROOT that you mention is sometimes referred to as the TONIC or the ONE. Why 3 different names for the same thing? Who knows. Just learning the major scale alone will go a long way towards clearing things up for you. It's a seven note scale with an 8th note thrown in that is the same as the root but one octave (12 frets) higher. All you need to do is memorize the fingering pattern for the scale and you can use it with any note as the root. the seven notes that make up the scale are what people are talking about when they say the 3rd, or the 5th or the 7th. That would be the 3rd, 5th or 7th note of the scale for whatever root (1) you started on.
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So I've been playing since I was 16. I've not had a single lesson and I can't read music. My ears and my feel do all the work. Here I am, getting on a bit now yet gig on a regular basis. I've been with this band over 7 years now, only joined this one because my last band folded. It may be drawing to an end as some of the guys are thinking of calling it a day at the end of the year but I'm confident I'll get another gig somewhere.
Point is, if you're good enough then you're good enough and some tosser remark doesn't matter.
As they say round these parts.... Nuff sed!
Point is, if you're good enough then you're good enough and some tosser remark doesn't matter.
As they say round these parts.... Nuff sed!
Sorry, root notes are what you are supposed to play. Adding a 5th, occasional walk or riff. People who play a lot more than the root notes, are just show offs. They should consider playing lead guitar.
Everything starts within— if you believe yourself to be incompetent, then you are. Why impose others' arbitrary definition of competency upon yourself? You chose the bass, sounds like a competent fellow to me.
No. I saw that post. Shuddered a bit, but moved on. When I started around '70, I learned by playing the root along to records. For hours and hours. With the correct rhythm. That's the resource we had. John McVie's early Fleetwood Mac was my "teacher." Once I got the roots down, I added other notes in the chords that were in the progression. If I knew the chords of a song and the key, things progressed from there playing other notes in the chords. It is so much easier to learn lines today with the internet. But, roots and rythem are fundamental to good bass playing. If your doing that well, you're on your way and in no way "incompetent."
Amos is the man. His tutorials are straightforward and well written. I had no idea he didn't start learning until he retired at 65.
Yep, you do. I took up bass at 45 four years or so ago. I had a bit of guitar skills but didn't know squat about theory. You really do want to know the basic major scale. This will allow you to know the notes of each chord.
Major is 1, 3, 5
Minor is 1, b3, 5 (one, flat third, five)
Once you know the shapes of these you will be able to do so much more than you do now. Being able to add a 7 occasionally will add flavour at times.
And then you just keep learning.
I disagree to a certain extent. Most people just want to play. Reading doesn't necessarily help you play. The great Aussie guitarist Tommy Emmanuel can't read music, but he sure knows his theory. I am generally considered quite competent on bass and can't read music.
This surprises me. From posts of yours I have seen about theory I assumed you were a life-long student of music.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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Am I an "incompetent" bass player?
You don't have to play like this to be considered a bass player
You don't have to play like this to be considered a bass player
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Some bassists made a career out of pounding quarter note roots. But there is a lot more to bass that will help you enjoy playing even more. Open your ears, consider some lessons.
It seems to me that quote meant that the bass players that keyboard player had worked with in the past had watered down the actual bass parts to songs they played. In other words, there was a bass line written for the song, and instead if bothering to learn that bass line, the bass player simply played root notes. So the keyboard player felt as though he had to spice it up a bit. That topic was about a keyboard player and not you.
All that being said, three years is a long time to be stuck on root notes. There are WAY too many online lessons available to have any excuses. You need to learn some music theory. You don't have to learn a TON. But you need to know SOME. Major and minor scales and chords would be a decent start.
Probably the easiest way is to learn just a couple of simple scales. No, they don't all need to be 8 notes. Start with 3 note scales going from the root to the 4th chord. Then 3 notes from the root to the 5th. See how many different combinations you can cone up with, and also note how much motion the music has.
Learn chords on guitar. Add in the other notes of the chord besides the root note. That's a start. After that, you can get into scales, modes, chromatic walk-ups, and so on. There are books, YouTube videos, etc. There's something to help someone of every learning style. You can also start studying other bass lines to see how they are constructed. Again, there are tabs but there also video tutorials.
Don't neglect the basics in the process though (keeping time, playing with good technique, etc.). I am really having to go back and correct some of my bad tendencies because I was more interested in theory and composition when I was younger and didn't work enough on things like muting.
Lots of good opinions above my humble entry. Without reading all of them, I'll toss in my pennies. I'm 40 and have been playing a year and a half. I've played in a church's worship team for about 9 months, and my first non-church gig is this Friday. I've responded to a posting for a local metal band, and I withdrew my name because I honestly do not think I'm where I want to be when I audition, but I fully intend to be before this year's end. I'm dipping into theory now, doing some coursework at Scott's online academy, and learning songs with basslines that grab me as I listen to music in my travels.
I also have 4 kids, a law practice, I drive 50k miles a year for work, and everyday is a roulette wheel of possible schedule changes. I find a way to make it work because this hobby has got me. I'm past the curious dabbler stage. I'm very serious and intend do this in whatever capacity I can for the rest of my days. If you've been playing this long, I'd say you're also beyond the threshhold. If so, spend less time here and more time on your instrument with some form of reliable instruction in front of you. I really like what I'm using: I've tried personal instruction but my rural location and unrelenting court trips made it difficult to meet consistently. I can go online and work at my own pace, and if I have to watch something a dozen times before I understand, so be it.
That you've played in any sort of band this long should inspire you with at least some level of confidence that you have the ability to learn more. You have time, you're not dead yet, and if you are enjoying yourself, you're much better off playing simple stuff with a smile than being miserable in a quest to meet the expectations of anyone apart from yourself and the musicians who rely on you.
I also have 4 kids, a law practice, I drive 50k miles a year for work, and everyday is a roulette wheel of possible schedule changes. I find a way to make it work because this hobby has got me. I'm past the curious dabbler stage. I'm very serious and intend do this in whatever capacity I can for the rest of my days. If you've been playing this long, I'd say you're also beyond the threshhold. If so, spend less time here and more time on your instrument with some form of reliable instruction in front of you. I really like what I'm using: I've tried personal instruction but my rural location and unrelenting court trips made it difficult to meet consistently. I can go online and work at my own pace, and if I have to watch something a dozen times before I understand, so be it.
That you've played in any sort of band this long should inspire you with at least some level of confidence that you have the ability to learn more. You have time, you're not dead yet, and if you are enjoying yourself, you're much better off playing simple stuff with a smile than being miserable in a quest to meet the expectations of anyone apart from yourself and the musicians who rely on you.
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